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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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What's the version number did you have 11.3 ?
11.3 isn’t going to magically save anything man. Some of us have kept trying to say this for some time. Tesla focusing so much on perception while literally every other self driving car company was focusing on the march of 9s shows that they aren’t close. And there isn’t a single influencer who actually knows enough about the topic and is bullish the way Duoma and dr nia are.
 
I think Teslas approach to FSD is absolutely brilliant and the right way to do it. I'm a semi retired-AI coder, FWIW.

The main reason I support their method, is not for anything technical (I'm not familiar enough with radar vs vision and large scale learning models), but because as an investor it is the ONLY method that makes sense.

Lets ask a simple question: Will FSD EVER be achievable, at any stage, by any company?

I think most people would say yes. Its like asking if man will ever set foot on Mars. Might be 10 years, might be 50, but its unlikely we just 'give up' and make no progress. So once you accept that someone WILL achieve it, you have to ask what an FSD future looks like. Everyone except Tesla seems to be focusing on mapping, multiple sensors, and sensor fusion.

Mapping is absolutely useless. The moment there is an accident that blocks a lane, or the moment someone somewhere forgets to update a database after making a change to some street sign or road marking, all your HD maps become dangerous lies. Something that can NEVER be relied on with safety critical operation.
Multiple sensors sound great, until they conflict and you have to make decisions as to which to trust.
And even if you have weather-dependent, time-dependent, HD-mapped multi-sensor FSD... the minute there is some policeman stood in the road directing traffic to turn around and go back, its all utterly, utterly useless, and you are back to needing vision to process this unlikely event and deal with it.

Waymo, Cruise etc are very good systems for impressing journalists on carefully selected routes, and persuading gullible investors to continue to have faith. FSD is the complete opposite. Its very obviously deliberately seeking out the bad edge cases. The tyre bouncing down the highway (which chuck cook already has proven is detected just fine), the group of dumb 20-something men dressed in chicken costumes for a stag-night bash who suddenly charge across the road. The billboard at the roadside that has an image of a car on it, but its NOT a car....and so on...

Tesla's approach to FSD is brilliant, because its the only system that is desperately trying to avoid a local maxima. They dont always succeed, so there will be sensor suite changes, and already we have seen major algorithmn and architecture changes. But they are the only ones even ATTEMPTING a general solution.

If, in the nightmare situation that waymo/cruise get approval to run a true driverless robotaxi service before Tesla does, and even make a small profit from it, it will be living on borrowed time. Once a GENERAL solution is found, globally, then the dozen or so HD-mapped cities in the US will seem like joke.
 
11.3 isn’t going to magically save anything man. Some of us have kept trying to say this for some time. Tesla focusing so much on perception while literally every other self driving car company was focusing on the march of 9s shows that they aren’t close. And there isn’t a single influencer who actually knows enough about the topic and is bullish the way Duoma and dr nia are.
?
The company that doesn't advertise is caught up in perception?
 
11.3 isn’t going to magically save anything man. Some of us have kept trying to say this for some time. Tesla focusing so much on perception while literally every other self driving car company was focusing on the march of 9s shows that they aren’t close. And there isn’t a single influencer who actually knows enough about the topic and is bullish the way Duoma and dr nia are.
You keep grading your own test. Who was saying 11.3 was going to “save” something? And shouldn’t tesla be focused on perception??

*DOUMA isn’t an influencer. He’s been a guest a lot on Dave Lee’s thing. Do you have some specific reason you’re obsessed with him? I can’t remember anyone bringing up his name or linking to the videos he’s in for dozens of pages at the least. From memory, he said something like “I think they’ll solve it (FSD) in a couple years.” Is that so unreasonable? Did you watch what Karpathy said on the Fridman podcast after he left Tesla? Their opinions aren’t too far off, from what I can tell. Maybe they’re both wrong! Who knows.

Dr. KIA* (that’s an awkward one) I barely know anything about, but if you’re going to keep bringing these people up when no one is talking about them, can you please at least link to their arguments? You just keep attacking people out of nowhere when no one else here is talking about them. It’s a really strange behavior.
 
Could be worse: Silicon Valley Bank, "SVB Financial Group" (NASDAQ:SIVP) dumps on Crypto write-down:

sc.SIVB.YTD-Chart.2023-03-09.CRYPTO-write-dn.png

Oh wait, it just got worse: SIVP down another 45% in the pre-Market today (trading below $59/sh now)

Components of the S&P 500​

#CompanySymbolWeight PriceChg% Chg
383SVB Financial GroupSIVB0.046356
down.gif
59.91
-46.13(-43.50%)

Silicon Valley Bank meltdown: Contagion risk or contained? | CNBC Television (32 min ago)

 
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- Tesla has approached 'Ronbay Technology' and 'Dongshan Precision' to cut material costs as it ramped up production of 4680 cells in the United States, sources say.
- If Tesla can solve performance and process problems and achieve its production goals, Musk's dream of producing 20 million cars a year by 2030 may overcome the bottleneck.
- Tesla is also expected to increase battery density of 4680 by signing a contract with South Korea's L&F to supply high-nickel anode materials.
@petit_bateau @mongo we have been curious as to how Tesla would resolve 4680 issues and this seems like a start.
 
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I think Teslas approach to FSD is absolutely brilliant and the right way to do it. I'm a semi retired-AI coder, FWIW.

The main reason I support their method, is not for anything technical (I'm not familiar enough with radar vs vision and large scale learning models), but because as an investor it is the ONLY method that makes sense.

Lets ask a simple question: Will FSD EVER be achievable, at any stage, by any company?

I think most people would say yes. Its like asking if man will ever set foot on Mars. Might be 10 years, might be 50, but its unlikely we just 'give up' and make no progress. So once you accept that someone WILL achieve it, you have to ask what an FSD future looks like. Everyone except Tesla seems to be focusing on mapping, multiple sensors, and sensor fusion.

Mapping is absolutely useless. The moment there is an accident that blocks a lane, or the moment someone somewhere forgets to update a database after making a change to some street sign or road marking, all your HD maps become dangerous lies. Something that can NEVER be relied on with safety critical operation.
Multiple sensors sound great, until they conflict and you have to make decisions as to which to trust.
And even if you have weather-dependent, time-dependent, HD-mapped multi-sensor FSD... the minute there is some policeman stood in the road directing traffic to turn around and go back, its all utterly, utterly useless, and you are back to needing vision to process this unlikely event and deal with it.

Waymo, Cruise etc are very good systems for impressing journalists on carefully selected routes, and persuading gullible investors to continue to have faith. FSD is the complete opposite. Its very obviously deliberately seeking out the bad edge cases. The tyre bouncing down the highway (which chuck cook already has proven is detected just fine), the group of dumb 20-something men dressed in chicken costumes for a stag-night bash who suddenly charge across the road. The billboard at the roadside that has an image of a car on it, but its NOT a car....and so on...

Tesla's approach to FSD is brilliant, because its the only system that is desperately trying to avoid a local maxima. They dont always succeed, so there will be sensor suite changes, and already we have seen major algorithmn and architecture changes. But they are the only ones even ATTEMPTING a general solution.

If, in the nightmare situation that waymo/cruise get approval to run a true driverless robotaxi service before Tesla does, and even make a small profit from it, it will be living on borrowed time. Once a GENERAL solution is found, globally, then the dozen or so HD-mapped cities in the US will seem like joke.
I’m just a doofus, but I seem to recall Elon having an “aha” moment about a year or so ago where he said he realized they would have to solve general ai to solve driving. Not long later Optimus showed up. My doofus opinion is that he was absolutely correct. This is based on 66 years of driving.
 
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@petit_bateau @mongo we have been curious as to how Tesla would resolve 4680 issues and this seems like a start.
Which 4680 issues are you referring to?
Article seemed like a lot of conflation and causality inferred from correlation.
The newsish items have nothing to do with dry cathode processing, nor advancement of the energy boosting road map from Battery Day.
 
Yep. We are running FSD beta. Don’t get me wrong. It’s pretty cool. But if you think about it from a hands off approach it’s not even close. A 10 kilometre ride around town would rack up thousands of dollars of fines and puss off dozens of drivers. And yah 20 years is probably a stretch but I don’t think we’ll see any L4 capability in the next decade based on the tiny incremental improvements we are seeing now.

Again. JMHO.
Why is going slow and cautious being FSD's fault but in fact it's the driver's behind you are the one having emotions? Cruise/Waymo pisses off drivers everywhere because their set max speed limit in many places are 25mph. They phantom brake all the time and are also cautious at times. In a world of robotaxies, safety and reliability are the only two metrics. No one cares if it takes 5 seconds to make a left turn or a right turn if they are in the back seat reading a book. The only metric you care about as a passenger is to not die as long as the vehicle can arrive at a destination in a timely fashion.

FSD beta not stopping in time or driving toward another car/pedestrian. Those are the only interventions I care about. FSD beta not going fast enough at a roundabout, or changed speed limits too slowly where the driver hits the accelerator...meh. The question I ask is would the beta not arrived at the destination without the accelerator press?
 
Ummm. Any reason why TSLA is up 2.6% in PM?…Other than the fact that it’s about 200+% undervalued?
"More unemployed people, less people buying stuff, prices go down, inflation under control, central banks likely to be less motivated to take money out of circulation, interest rates remain stable., economy slows, Powell goes prrrrrinting $$$$, more money into the system, stonks go up.." ? 😁
 
Ummm. Any reason why TSLA is up 2.6% in PM?…Other than the fact that it’s about 200+% undervalued?
Release of jobs report? Numbers were strong seemingly signaling reduced chances of recession, but questions about inflation and pressures on the Fed. Whipsaw. Today could be more bouncy than usual which also raises the possibility report has no major effect throughout the day as the puts and calls dance continues to drive SP trend.
 
I’m just a doofus, but I seem to recall Elon having an “aha” moment about a year or so ago where he said he realized they would have to solve general ai to solve driving. Not long later Optimus showed up. My doofus opinion is that he was absolutely correct. This is based on 66 years of driving.
Since I first heard about the goal of self-driving vehicles, I thought they'd be able to program the basic rules of the road, add a bunch of details, add sensors/hardware, and eventually be good to go; how is it that even relatively mentally slow people can usually learn to drive, yet autonomy requires such an incredibly difficult, complicated program so many orders of magnitude smarter than the slowest-learning driver, that needs machine learning, which to me is having to go around the barn thousands of times (very indirect learning) to succeed? After all, it seems like there's relatively few rules and algorithms judging by the thinness of any driver's training manual at the local motor vehicle office where you go to take your written driver's exam, at least in the US...