Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[MartinAustin]

The idea of Tesla licensing their FSD tech has been hypothesized many times here. My question is, is it practical? (I don't have the technical knowledge to have an informed opinion on the subject.) So, I'm asking the bored (SIC) whether it's feasible or not.

Wouldn't Ford, for example, have to use Tesla cameras, HW computer, sensors, brakes, drive train, batteries and steering? Aren't they all connected?

Over the years, I've owned many airplanes. I wanted the latest avionics so I'd do these big upgrades. Never worked out. There was always some problem with one computer talking to another or interference of some kind. I'd suspect that trying to get FSD to work with another manufacturer's product would have the same issues. If anything is different in the system, wouldn't Tesla have to train and certify each unique installation for safety?

Yes to all that. It's a big license and people's lives are at stake. Tesla will draw up a huge list of requirements for the license, not limited to installation at the factory, testing at the factory, specifying how brakes and steering can/must be automated, windshield wipers must traverse the forward cameras, and so on. Whether or not the licensee uses Tesla maps, navigation, in-car entertainment, hvac controls and all the other things Tesla owners use every day is up to that automaker and Tesla, but the basic needs of FSD will have been compartmentalised and tested as a licensable product. It will probably be licensed to one client only to start with, whether that's Ford, Mercedes or someone else is tbd but Tesla will work very carefully with that first licensee and probably along with recently-hired government regulators. There will likely be a limited liability public beta on the licensee's platform before it is sold and marketed/advertised by the licensee's marketing department.

 

[GhostSkater]

That has absolutely nothing to do with having a different drive train. He was trying to drive the car with a game controller in the back seat vs using the pedals/steering wheel.

Has absolutly no bearing on what I wrote above.

The safeguards are for pedal misapplication and various possible device failures.

Any other car manufacturer would be using proper pedals and steering wheels and wouldn't have an issue there.

The the tweets after this one

What I mean is that Tesla has a system that cross check everything with everything else and faults if any of the cross checks fails

If they don't have this ability, else the system is less secure against faults, or it won't work

 

[EVNow]

My point is if I were a bean counter I wouldn’t count on achieving any sort of hands feee level 4 autonomy for years yet. Not a popular sentiment here but that’s jmho.

The industry joke is that autonomous driving is always 5 years away.

Except, if the speaker is EM, it is always by the end of the year

 

[Cosmacelf]

One company, at least, thinks there will be third party Tesla to CCS1 adapter for sale in the not too distant future as a replacement for Magic Dock. Tesla would still be in charge of which Superchargers are opened up, although the website doesn't say that.

Magic Dock & Tesla to CCS Adapter • Charge non-Tesla at Supercharger • Ultimate Guide

Here you will find the Tesla-to-CCS1 adapter for charging non-Tesla electric vehicles on the Supercharger network. With the Magic Dock Supercharger Adapter, you can charge your car and motorcycle.

evadept.com

 

[FSDtester#1]

A little off topic viewing for your pleasure. The Tesla started off in reverse.
Happy Memorial Day and a thank you to all our members who served to give us the freedom to be a part of this community.

Watch Tesla Model Y Start Drag Race In Reverse, Still Win

A Tesla Model Y managed to win a drag race against a Mercedes-AMG GLE SUV after starting in reverse because of an awkward driver error.

insideevs.com

 

[EVNow]

Og taxi service made money because they charge like 4 dollars a mile, however there's a cap on it's revenue when car ownership cost about 50 cents a mile. Tesla robotaxi in Musk's mind is suppose to be the only form of transportation, which means it needs to be as competative as 50 cents a mile and scaled large enough for people to give up their cars. So will Tesla make money on 50 cents a mile? Who knows, theoretically yes but Waymo/Uber are struggling making a net income on 2 dollars/mile.

Instead of running robotaxi themselfs, Tesla can just let others do it and charge a nice subscription fee. There will be enough enterprising individuals who buy the car and figure out how to run the service and make money.

In '19 ARK put out a robotaxi spreadsheet you can play around with. If the cost of robotaxi is 50k and FSD is $15k, they think an IRR of 44% was possible charging 50 cents a mile. Tesla can increase the price of the car (or subscription) to let car owners earn a good IRR of 15% - and keep rest as profit. Infact they could charge $72.5k for FSD.

Ofcourse - Waymo has different challenges. Uber spends a lot of money on acquisition, If they don't, they will make a decent profit.

So, the real problem is in getting to L4, IMO.

 

[H Mak]

For those of you that are struggling to keep up with Elon’s extracurricular activities. And no, I’m not talking about whether he and grimes are still together in secret.

X Holdings owns X Corp
Twitter is now essentially renamed X Corp
X Corp also will start X, the everything app

Elon has also started X.AI
X.AI will run TruthGPT and also provide services to Twitter and Tesla. Tesla will likely provide Dojo services in return.

Elon is still running Boring Co and Neuralink in addition to SpaceX and Tesla.

The only additional future organisation that Elon has recently mentioned is an educational institution. This will own and vote Elon’s shares once he has returned to the unsimulated matrix.

Thanks. And Grimes?

 

[Mike Smith]

Business Insider is reporting that a Youtuber has sold his Model Y in favor of a Mercedes EQS (starting at $103k) because he suspects it will be higher quality. Here is the full report:

A YouTuber ditched his Tesla for a Mercedes EQS. It came down to quality issues.

Austin Evans said dealing with Tesla quality control issues over the past two years was like "death by a thousand cuts."

www.businessinsider.com

He suffered serious issues such as a smear of glue and a loose seat control cover and his wife even suffered a rain wetting because she had to fiddle with her phone to get a door open. Understandably, he didn't want to get the issues fixed because Tesla service centers have received bad reviews.

 

[FSDtester#1]

Business Insider is reporting that a Youtuber has sold his Model Y in favor of a Mercedes EQS (starting at $103k) because he suspects it will be higher quality. Here is the full report:

A YouTuber ditched his Tesla for a Mercedes EQS. It came down to quality issues.

Austin Evans said dealing with Tesla quality control issues over the past two years was like "death by a thousand cuts."

www.businessinsider.com

He suffered serious issues such as a smear of glue and a loose seat control cover and his wife even suffered a rain wetting because she had to fiddle with her phone to get a door open. Understandably, he didn't want to get the issues fixed because Tesla service centers have received bad reviews.

He said it feels like a private jet...
See my video post above, MY vs. His new "Supercar"

 

[M|S|M MYP]

Business Insider is reporting that a Youtuber has sold his Model Y in favor of a Mercedes EQS (starting at $103k) because he suspects it will be higher quality. Here is the full report:

A YouTuber ditched his Tesla for a Mercedes EQS. It came down to quality issues.

Austin Evans said dealing with Tesla quality control issues over the past two years was like "death by a thousand cuts."

www.businessinsider.com

He suffered serious issues such as a smear of glue and a loose seat control cover and his wife even suffered a rain wetting because she had to fiddle with her phone to get a door open. Understandably, he didn't want to get the issues fixed because Tesla service centers have received bad reviews.

This confirms that $TSLA will be GREEN Tomorrow!!

 

[Words of HABIT]

Top Artificial Intelligence (AI) Chip Companies Leading The Way (2023)

Future economic growth could be significantly impacted by AI chips, which will unavoidably be used in robotics, smart homes where electronic items are becoming more intelligent, cars that are becoming more autonomous, and many other technologies. As the name suggests, AI chips are a new...

www.marktechpost.com

Top Artificial Intelligence (AI) Chip Companies Leading The Way, article by Prathamesh Ingle, Marktechpost, March 22nd, 2023.

26 AI companies mentioned in this article. One company is missing. Tesla is not on mainstream media's radar when it comes to AI. AI for Tesla is not currently priced in TSLA.

 

[Christine69420]

Business Insider is reporting that a Youtuber has sold his Model Y in favor of a Mercedes EQS (starting at $103k) because he suspects it will be higher quality. Here is the full report:

A YouTuber ditched his Tesla for a Mercedes EQS. It came down to quality issues.

Austin Evans said dealing with Tesla quality control issues over the past two years was like "death by a thousand cuts."

www.businessinsider.com

He suffered serious issues such as a smear of glue and a loose seat control cover and his wife even suffered a rain wetting because she had to fiddle with her phone to get a door open. Understandably, he didn't want to get the issues fixed because Tesla service centers have received bad reviews.

I love it!

We need people to fall in love with non-Tesla cars to advance the mission. Someone needs to buy the EQS or Mercedes will get into trouble. And I am not willing to give up my Tesla. No way! So I am glad this youtuber did.

And he sold a Model Y. Which means that someone bought it and got a TMY for a good price. Perhaps the new owner could not quite afford a new one.

I know people who are happy with their Mach-E, MG or e-tron cars. And I am glad they are. And I am glad it's not me. Win-win.

 

[brantse]

Business Insider is reporting that a Youtuber has sold his Model Y in favor of a Mercedes EQS (starting at $103k) because he suspects it will be higher quality. Here is the full report:

A YouTuber ditched his Tesla for a Mercedes EQS. It came down to quality issues.

Austin Evans said dealing with Tesla quality control issues over the past two years was like "death by a thousand cuts."

www.businessinsider.com

He suffered serious issues such as a smear of glue and a loose seat control cover and his wife even suffered a rain wetting because she had to fiddle with her phone to get a door open. Understandably, he didn't want to get the issues fixed because Tesla service centers have received bad reviews.

A few months ago, I stopped at a Sheetz in PA for lunch which had non-Tesla EV fast chargers. There was a new Mercedes EQS, an Ioniq and a VW ID-4 charging. I was inside eating, and listened to the EQS owner on the phone with the charger owner (I think it was electrify America) and then complain with the other EV drivers about his experience. He then goes on to say that he drove a Tesla for years and never had issues with charging, but he just loved the interior of the EQS and couldn't pass up the deal he got. Seemed like he got some deal to me .

 

[2daMoon]

I love it!

We need people to fall in love with non-Tesla cars to advance the mission. Someone needs to buy the EQS or Mercedes will get into trouble. And I am not willing to give up my Tesla. No way! So I am glad this youtuber did.

And he sold a Model Y. Which means that someone bought it and got a TMY for a good price. Perhaps the new owner could not quite afford a new one.

I know people who are happy with their Mach-E, MG or e-tron cars. And I am glad they are. And I am glad it's not me. Win-win.

So, eventually, this person will have brought as many as two new EV'ers and three EVs into the fold.
(after he becomes even more dissatisfied with the Merc, trades it in for a new Tesla, and the Merc then sells to another new EV'er)
Edit: Reference @brantse above

Is this a reasonable example of a virtuous cycle?

 

[dhanson865]

The the tweets after this one

What I mean is that Tesla has a system that cross check everything with everything else and faults if any of the cross checks fails

If they don't have this ability, else the system is less secure against faults, or it won't work

I read the tweets, again I say

That has absolutely nothing to do with having a different drive train. He was trying to drive the car with a game controller in the back seat vs using the pedals/steering wheel.

Has absolutely no bearing on what I wrote above.

The safeguards are for pedal misapplication and various possible device failures.

Any other car manufacturer would be using proper pedals and steering wheels and wouldn't have an issue there.

 

[GhostSkater]

I read the tweets, again I say

That has absolutely nothing to do with having a different drive train. He was trying to drive the car with a game controller in the back seat vs using the pedals/steering wheel.

Has absolutely no bearing on what I wrote above.

The safeguards are for pedal misapplication and various possible device failures.

Any other car manufacturer would be using proper pedals and steering wheels and wouldn't have an issue there.

So you still didn't understand what I meant

When FSD is enabled, the FSD computer doesn't command a torque amount/pedal application, it tells the distance it wants to cover to the inverter and how to execute that, the inverter then checks the instructions, cross check with other systems, and if it's good, it translates the instruction to a sequence of torque/speed commands that completes the goal instructed by the FSD computer and executes it

My point is, selling FSD for third parties isn't bolting a few cameras and the FSD computer, it's way more involved than that. There isn't a port of even a instruction coming out of the FSD computer that is called "Thottle position"

You can't simply connected the FSD computer to any EV architecture, it's way more involved than that for safety reasons, it requires a ton of software integration to make it work, which we know OEMs suck at.

It can be done, probably will be done, the question is how? Tesla goes inside the OEMs to adapt the software? It isn't even inside the OEM since most use controllers/inverters from suppliers. Will Tesla supply the motor inverter part of the drivetrain? Just the know how and software?

 

[JRP3]

Okay, so what you mean is that it's a simpler problem if you don't actually try to solve it.

Or have some understanding of the energy levels involved. Elon won't try to change basic physics.

 

[dhanson865]

So you still didn't understand what I meant

When FSD is enabled, the FSD computer doesn't command a torque amount/pedal application, it tells the distance it wants to cover to the inverter and how to execute that, the inverter then checks the instructions, cross check with other systems, and if it's good, it translates the instruction to a sequence of torque/speed commands that completes the goal instructed by the FSD computer and executes it

My point is, selling FSD for third parties isn't bolting a few cameras and the FSD computer, it's way more involved than that. There isn't a port of even a instruction coming out of the FSD computer that is called "Thottle position"

You can't simply connected the FSD computer to any EV architecture, it's way more involved than that for safety reasons, it requires a ton of software integration to make it work, which we know OEMs suck at.

It can be done, probably will be done, the question is how? Tesla goes inside the OEMs to adapt the software? It isn't even inside the OEM since most use controllers/inverters from suppliers. Will Tesla supply the motor inverter part of the drivetrain? Just the know how and software?

So you still didn't understand what @wk057 wrote.

He couldn't successfully emulate the pedals correctly with the parts he chose for a specific hack of driving from the back seat.

That has nothing to do with how real pedal in another manufacturers car would work.

 

[Captkerosene]

So you still didn't understand what @wk057 wrote.

He couldn't successfully emulate the pedals correctly with the parts he chose for a specific hack of driving from the back seat.

That has nothing to do with how real pedal in another manufacturers car would work.

The brake or gas pedal might be a good example of the problem. Does everyone use the same pedal? How many variables and controllers/sensors go into that one function. Are there ten different producers or does everyone use the same supplier. With different sensors/controllers won't custom software have to be written? If the controller (if that is even the right term) isn't compatible with OTA updates then how will it be supported. It seems like the list of potential problems goes on and on.

 

[totoro722]

A few months ago, I stopped at a Sheetz in PA for lunch which had non-Tesla EV fast chargers. There was a new Mercedes EQS, an Ioniq and a VW ID-4 charging. I was inside eating, and listened to the EQS owner on the phone with the charger owner (I think it was electrify America) and then complain with the other EV drivers about his experience. He then goes on to say that he drove a Tesla for years and never had issues with charging, but he just loved the interior of the EQS and couldn't pass up the deal he got. Seemed like he got some deal to me .

That’s a good thing. People value different things in a car. Some find exterior styling and bling are what rings their bell. The EQS drivers in the video and your narrative clearly value a cushy and complex interior over performance or engineering. They got the right cars for them. I do hope Tesla does not feel it must enter every market niche or it will end up like GM. Keep the focus where it is.
I find it funny that someone decides to spend a lot to move from a premium car to a luxury car … and that is news!