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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Tsla down almost $7 in pre-market and is down over 40% from ATH and the talk on the forum is about Musk fighting another CEO.

šŸ˜ž
Ok, letā€™s talk about how the market can remain irrational longer than we can remain solvent. Because weā€™ve not ever mentioned that before.

Why donā€™t you start us off and discuss the $7 pre-market decline. Tell us exactly why itā€™s happening and not some made up rationale that canā€™t actually be proven. Tell us exactly how Tesla financials changed over the weekend to warrant such a decline. Tell us exactly whoā€™s deciding this price change in pre-market. Tell us how the options market and the macro economics play a role. Please. Because we have no idea whatā€™s going on.
 
Ok, letā€™s talk about how the market can remain irrational longer than we can remain solvent. Because weā€™ve not ever mentioned that before.

Why donā€™t you start us off and discuss the $7 pre-market decline. Tell us exactly why itā€™s happening and not some made up rationale that canā€™t actually be proven. Tell us exactly how Tesla financials changed over the weekend to warrant such a decline. Tell us exactly whoā€™s deciding this price change in pre-market. Tell us how the options market and the macro economics play a role. Please. Because we have no idea whatā€™s going on.
Is it because NKLA recalled most of its trucks and they are a "Tesla Killer", which in turn has a bad effect on $TSLA stock? šŸ¤£ šŸ¤£ šŸ¤£ šŸ¤£ šŸ¤£

 
Ok, letā€™s talk about how the market can remain irrational longer than we can remain solvent. Because weā€™ve not ever mentioned that before.

Why donā€™t you start us off and discuss the $7 pre-market decline. Tell us exactly why itā€™s happening and not some made up rationale that canā€™t actually be proven. Tell us exactly how Tesla financials changed over the weekend to warrant such a decline. Tell us exactly whoā€™s deciding this price change in pre-market. Tell us how the options market and the macro economics play a role. Please. Because we have no idea whatā€™s going on.

Much of the market is very red this morning. This plus the new China price cuts today on Tesla cars is likely the reasons for the pre-market decline. The assumption that further price cuts could lower Tesla margins even more isn't an unreasonable one to make in the near term.

And please note before anyone assumes it I an NOT saying we all need to sell and get out and the sky is falling and whatnot. HOLD or acquire is still the best long term option IMHO, but in the short term I can see us going lower yet and not climbing much above $300 at best before years end.
 
Much of the market is very red this morning. This plus the new China price cuts today on Tesla cars is likely the reasons for the pre-market decline. The assumption that further price cuts could lower Tesla margins even more isn't an unreasonable one to make in the near term.

And please note before anyone assumes it I an NOT saying we all need to sell and get out and the sky is falling and whatnot. HOLD or acquire is still the best long term option IMHO, but in the short term I can see us going lower yet and not climbing much above $300 at best before years end.
Personally I think the stock market is doing way better than it deserves.

We are still in peak s%^t storm macro wise.

1. China' economy is weak and currently having a banter with the US.

2. War still happening with Russia and Ukraine

3. High competition from safe investment vehicles like money market paying decent returns.

4. The cost of money is currently expensive due to the speculative market with fed not signaling they are done with hikes.

5. Even tho raw material prices collapse, not many things are pre-pandemic prices so inflation is still a thing.


I feel like we are in peak headwind and perhaps the market is pricing in tailwind already hence the recovery this year from last year.
 
Ok, letā€™s talk about how the market can remain irrational longer than we can remain solvent. Because weā€™ve not ever mentioned that before.
OK, how about "the end is near" discussion re banks etc? šŸ¤£
It's all stress people. Let go, and let Elon. šŸ¤£
I actually do have a point, but not those ones today. ;)

I almost bought more TSLA shares on Friday. But I looked at my reserve and remembered something. Last time (down from 400 and other peaks), I dipped into my reserve thinking it's another quick win. I went to zero reserves, "All in" if some here recall. Bad move because if we're wrong and it becomes a correction, then there's no cushion. This forces the sale of said chairs to pay bills, or to buy Cybertruck.

Moral of the story, when you raid your couches for more chairs, leave some cushions. I have some, not buying today, good either way. But still pissed I didn't sell some last week as my gut told me. Wishing I had more cushions, but keeping what I have for now.

So seems I may have a style here. Trade 5% on swings, but when it looks like a global depression is coming, HODL for real - ride it out.
 
Earlier this year this board was all doom and gloom. A month ago it was the opposite and the sky was the limit. Now it's all misery again. Guess what comes after that?

Elon has called the stock market 'manic-depressive' and this board is not much different.

So the stock is down again. Elon doesn't care and neither should we. Tesla the company is strong and getting ever stronger. TSLA the stock will take care of itself. Those who HODL will be richly rewarded. Again.
 
Tsla down almost $7 in pre-market and is down over 40% from ATH and the talk on the forum is about Musk fighting another CEO.

šŸ˜ž
@gtrplyr1

may I suggest you read Papafox's daily dispatches for very cogent insights of TSLA

 
This plus the new China price cuts today on Tesla cars is likely the reasons for the pre-market decline. The assumption that further price cuts could lower Tesla margins even more isn't an unreasonable one to make in the near term.
Okay, let me confirm for you and everyone else unsure; Tesla WILL continue to cut prices, margins be damned. How do I know? Because Tesla actually said it.

Now go out and spread the word to the financial geniuses of the world so they can short the stock down to zero.

In other words, itā€™s a lame excuse at best to artificially or otherwise drop the SP. Theyā€™ve had more than 3 months to process that information from Tesla and act accordingly.
 
Okay, let me confirm for you and everyone else unsure; Tesla WILL continue to cut prices, margins be damned. How do I know? Because Tesla actually said it.

Now go out and spread the word to the financial geniuses of the world so they can short the stock down to zero.

In other words, itā€™s a lame excuse at best to artificially or otherwise drop the SP. Theyā€™ve had more than 3 months to process that information from Tesla and act accordingly.

No one is saying it's a good reason, but it's how Wall Street thinks (short term).

A reason doesn't have to be a good one to cause an action.
 
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I was involved with buying USSteel - a very large (>>5%) position - in the early 1980s, somewhat against my will, as my work demonstrated the companyā€™s long-term prospects were bleak. We held the position for a profit, but it was a performance-dragger.

Forty years on, a far smaller USXā€™s prospects are even more moribund. I shudder to think there is someone out there beguiled by a washed-up operation solely because its ticker is X.
 
Sure seems like this upcoming week is the week of Highland. So many different anecdotal pieces of evidence + rumors.

- Rumor that sales people are being asked to come in early tomorrow
- Rumor of 3 production line fully switching over to Highland this week
- Drone footage of Shanghai showing cars under wraps

Now if the rumored specs + price turn out to be accurate....I'll actually feel sorry for BYD, Nio, and all of the other EV makers.
Welp scrap that. The new Model 3 incentive for Shanghai pretty much all but assures Highland won't be shown until Oct 1st.

TSLA well on it's way to testing the support on the uptrend line. If the macro market takes a dive very soon, TSLA can go all the way down to 212-215 to test that support. If it takes longer like say beginning of September, that test will be around 220. But either way, it seems predetermined at this point what is going to happen.

No Cybertruck or Highland until late September at the earliest + price cuts and the corresponding narrative + CFO leaving = downward pressure on the stock. It's crazy to think that it would be even be a question of will TSLA hold that uptrend line after blowout P/D numbers and earnings beat...but the string of negative news and nonstop selling pressure (especially on macro up days) is taking its toll.

I'm not nearly as confident TSLA holds that uptrend support line at this point. If that happens we're in for another Nov/Dec moment with the stock unfortunately.
 
No one is saying it's a good reason, but it's how Wall Street thinks (short term).

A reason doesn't have to be a good one to cause an action.
Right. Itā€™s all bs. Always has been, always will be. So why do we still have regular posters to this ā€˜investingā€™ thread wondering why the SP is down $7 in pre-market? Or up, or sideways.

I put forth that discussion concerning the SP should be in relation to the actual company, not some made up metric or some not irrelevant boys club brawl. It should also be in relation to the options market, which has more control over the SP than anything else. And finally, it should be in relation to reality; not pretend future or fear etcā€¦
 
I was involved with buying USSteel - a very large (>>5%) position - in the early 1980s, somewhat against my will, as my work demonstrated the companyā€™s long-term prospects were bleak. We held the position for a profit, but it was a performance-dragger.

Forty years on, a far smaller USXā€™s prospects are even more moribund. I shudder to think there is someone out there beguiled by a washed-up operation solely because its ticker is X.
Earlier this morning it was reported that USSteel turned down a $7+B offer. And the offer wasn't from Tesla.
 
I was involved with buying USSteel - a very large (>>5%) position - in the early 1980s, somewhat against my will, as my work demonstrated the companyā€™s long-term prospects were bleak. We held the position for a profit, but it was a performance-dragger.

Forty years on, a far smaller USXā€™s prospects are even more moribund. I shudder to think there is someone out there beguiled by a washed-up operation solely because its ticker is X.
But it's not just the ticker. They really emphasize making pipes and tubes. Elon Musk can't get enough of cylinders.
 
I was involved with buying USSteel - a very large (>>5%) position - in the early 1980s, somewhat against my will, as my work demonstrated the companyā€™s long-term prospects were bleak. We held the position for a profit, but it was a performance-dragger.

Forty years on, a far smaller USXā€™s prospects are even more moribund. I shudder to think there is someone out there beguiled by a washed-up operation solely because its ticker is X.
Not familiar with their business at all but doesn't that sound like an industry/company ready for disruption? Particularly in light of the renewed US-China slap fights over trade.
 
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Ok, letā€™s talk about how the market can remain irrational longer than we can remain solvent. Because weā€™ve not ever mentioned that before.

Why donā€™t you start us off and discuss the $7 pre-market decline. Tell us exactly why itā€™s happening and not some made up rationale that canā€™t actually be proven. Tell us exactly how Tesla financials changed over the weekend to warrant such a decline. Tell us exactly whoā€™s deciding this price change in pre-market. Tell us how the options market and the macro economics play a role. Please. Because we have no idea whatā€™s going on.
Not sure why your reply is so hostile.

It would simply be nice to read headlines that were more specific to what TESLA as a company is doing rather than 1 persons antics. But I guess those headlines don't get clicks.

It's a shame for those people working their collective butts off at Tesla.

Just my $.02
 
In my opinion, is pretty simple

It's simply too expensive to have meaningful volume here considering the country fleet and population size

As you said, easy to have a few, hard to make a dent on the market even with 3/Y. We see those two becoming the best or close to the best sold in every market they are available, impossible to even come close to that here

The Brazilian Real has lost a ton of value on the past years, on top of that the new vehicle price skyrocket, today you can buy the most barebones new car for close to to what you could buy a nice medium class SUV 5 years ago, it's completely ridiculous, you are paying a lot for absolute garbage

For context, the cheapest new car you can buy today here is R$ 70k or ~$ 14K, a Model 3, assuming it would arrive for the same price as in the U, which is unlikely) would be R$ 200k, if it was the same price as in China R$132k

Both still too high in my opinion for market dominance, the most sold passenger car in 2022 was the Hyundai HB20, which goes for R$ 84k

Don't think Tesla need to go for this low price to be the market leader, but something between R$ 100k and R$150 k, which would be $ 20k to $ 30k

And this is not counting the huge infrastructure expense it has to build at the same time

TLDR: Brazil needs a cheaper vehicle to have good market penetration and make it worth the cost on entering this market, so whatever comes out of Mexico makes sense. And I still think there is a huge cultural battle to be fought, won't be quick adoption to market dominance, but a slow uphill climb, but will get there
I gave a disagree on this one, not because the total market conclusions are incorrect, they are correct, but the conclusions miss the actual point. Brazil is a huge market, and as with many large markets the use of 'measures of central tendency' generates significant errors. On average (mean) Brazil has no likely luxury car market.

However Brazil did sell 23,000 cars in roughly Model S and above prices in 2022 (data behind paywall, but includes only Land/Range Rover, BMW, Merceds-Benz, Volvo and excluded the exotics. Even Porsche sold 2200 cars in Brazil in 2022 including 118 Taycans.

That total market and more is entirely plausible were tesla do do what it does elsewhere, i.e. expand and create a new market. In any event the addressable market for the current Tesla product line in Brazil is primarily located in the wealthiest parts of urban centers. The simplest way to know where Tesla should concentrate is to find the dealerships for luxury cars, all located conveniently close to their target audience.
Tesla need not cover the entire market and need not even cover all the area between those concentrations. After all, the target audience rarely travels long distance by car inside Brazil, although they do that often at their homes abroad, which many do.

Fundamentally the problem is a quite common one. Generally people who aren't familiar with the income inequality rife in much often world simply think in terms of averages (mean) so miss markets.

There is a reason why Brazil has such a concentration of excellent restaurants in cities such as Rio de Janaeiro, even Fortaleza, Salvador, Florianopolis and others. That si NOT to serve average people.
Elon Musk, born and partly raised in South Africa, understands that as do a number of Tesla executives.
Even many highly intelligent people who live in these places do not understand. I recall Carlos Ghosn saying the Brazil should have only the cheapest Renault and Nissan cars for Brazil. Peugeot and Toyota saw things differently. Those results showed Mr. Ghosn made a critical blunder. They threw away money.

Finally, the world though the new VAG ownership of Bentley was crazy when they introduced the Bentley Continental, which sold more >$150,000 cars in one year in the US than the entire previous years >$150,00 market. That story was repeated when Tesla introduced the Model S.

Now it seems we are confusing Elon's efforts to improve affordability by presuming there is no market for more expensive Tesla also. Myopia! Tesla will NOT abandon more wealthy clients, nor ignore actual market opportunities to serve them.

For reference just check single family house sales prices in any given wealthy bairro anywhere in Brazil. That gives some clues. Then add beachside condominium prices, or if you're brave Coberturas (top floor condos). Those are the places you'll see those Taycan, Range Rover, Volvo BEV's etc. and their shopping centers such as Village Mall with a row of eight free charging stations.

Tesla would sell thousands within a day or two, of existing models.