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Tesla Van is a big ticket item that doesn't get discussed much; when equipped with operational FSD as either an autonomous people mover or delivery vehicle, it has potential to take huge market share in these classifications unless another company solves autonomy.

Italy is now expressing interest. I wonder if it is announced soon. Tesla is in talks to build electric trucks or vans in Italy, report says
 
That's your take, and that's fine. Mine is that $12k for FSD pays for itself if it saves you from even one distracted crash at 70+ mph. (These days most of my miles are road trip miles) It has saved me from two accidents in town so far. While I purchased it four years ago, so it wasn't $12K--I forget what is was back then--I won't purchase a vehicle without it anymore.
Multiple accidents avoided here as well, one potentially life-ending. That's gotta be worth about $12k at least, right? (Duh) I suppose unless you have personally actually had FSD save your life and/or your loved ones, it's all just talk. However, when I know it to be true, I have zero doubt I will ever drive a vehicle without FSD, no matter the cost, because without my life I can kiss everything else goodbye.
 
IMO they key questions are:-
  1. Can Model 3/Y be used as Robotaxis?
  2. What is preventing the start of a Robotaxi network?
  3. Is the Robotaxi similar to the compact Model 2 car, if so, how long to switch lines over.
  4. Are high fuel prices likely to prolong high interest rates and increase the risk of a recession?
  5. Are layoffs impacting on staff morale.
!.-4. Are the background as to why the decision was made to prioritise the Robotaxi over Model 2,. In a recession fewer people are buying new cars and some that no longer own are car will use a Robotaxi.

5. Is what I see as the major risk. Elon makes good product and technology decisions, even good business decisions but he doesn't always understand how other people think. The staff are going to need a very good explainati0on for why the layoffs occurred, that can include stuff they don't tell us, and won't tell us. But it need to be frank, honest and substantial. There was very little 'dead wood" in Tesla, so it is likely some very hard working and committed people have been asked to leave.

Reflecting on 1.-4. above, 2. is the key question and computer hardware for NN training is part of the answer.

For question 3. my guess is around 1 month, they can't build both models on the same line, but a Robotaxi line could be retooled to build Model 2.
I don't buy the theory that one line can build both, or it is an instant change over, But a lot can be changed in 1 month, if the ducks are lined up in advance. And the exact timeframe isn't overly important.
 
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I kid you not. Couldn’t be any more clear. It’s all they traded today.

IMG_7313.jpeg
 
Completely disagree with your valuation at $40/share if autonomy fails. Nonsense. If autonomy fails, and assuming Optimus goes nowhere:

1. Tesla energy still exists.
2. Tesla still makes cars.
3. Tesla still has the best driver assistance package on earth and can sell it to any car company.
4. Tesla still owns almost all chargers considered the standard for North America.
5. Tesla still makes nearly 100% margin money on FSD sales/subscriptions.
6. Tesla still has battery factories and will have one or more lithium refineries.
7. More I’m sure.

People forget the core mission of Tesla is to transition the world to sustainable energy/transport. Especially with so many OEMS pulling back on EVs lately, that isn’t going to happen on its own. Tesla will make every car they can.

All of the above assumes autonomy doesn’t happen and that’s worth way more than $40/share.
As I said earlier, both the $40 and $4000 numbers are not based on any analysis. These figures were just there to make a point about the massive difference between Tesla with and without autonomy.
 
Do people here really think this is coming so soon? You only have 1 chance at this and once an accident happens where someone is hurt (unless you believe FSD will NEVER make a mistake, ever), FSD will be paused/shut down pretty quickly (think Cruise/San Francisco where a person is dragged 6 ft after hitting them).
I think it's coming pretty soon. As @Todd Burch just pointed out, we will know a lot more when we get 12.4. (Hey, I like that rhyme. "We will know a lot more when we get 12-point-4")

One accident with injury is not going to shut down Tesla robotaxi or even slow it very much. In fact, it's definitely going to happen. Even a fatality or two will happen eventually, just as it does with Uber and Lyft.

Plane crashes haven't shut down the airline industry. The main problem with Cruise is that they tried to hide what really happened. And even now, Cruise is sort of still going.

But your post does make me wonder if that would be the time when Elon might be convinced to hire a public relations specialist when/if something tragic happens.
 
why dont folks on this thread realize the RT and Model 2 are not mutually exclusive , they will do both

get RT line running , then announce similar to Model Y with little fanfare the Model 2 .... eliminate Osbourne effect

what am i missing ???

Because the rumors are Tesla won't bother with the "Model 2" and will instead focus Gen3 completely on RT. Going "all in" so to speak. Sure, they could definitely both be made on a very similar platform, that is what we all expected up until a week ago, but now there is a chance Tesla is not going to do that at all, but instead build only the RT.

Many of us hope that is not the case, and rumors are certainly not facts, but even the possibility of this seems crazy to many investors.

I know when I read in the Isaacson bio that Elon wanted to do this years ago but Franz and Lars convinced him to build both the RT and Gen3 on the same platform, well I was shocked then that Elon didn't want to bother with the consumer Gen3. Even the notion of that seemed insane to me. Yet here we are, with the possibility Elon has changed his mind back, foregoing the advice of Franz and Lars.

Time will tell.
 
IMHO, yes. In fact, I feel like the Y is the perfect robotaxi for airport runs and runs to grocery stores... plus families. I'd probably start with them, then introduce the 2-seater later at a lower cost per ride for solo / couple riders with no baggage.
The point here is a Robotaxi network can be started as soon as the software is ready.

Model 3/Y could even be imported into the US from China to use as Robotaxis, in that case the IRA doesn't really matter.

In a recession, or a period of lower than normal demand, selling Robotaxi fares is a lot easier than selling cars.

If demand for Model 3/Y is lagging supply, adding another model to the sales mix will not help that.
 
March 16 Elon Tweeted...

"V12.4 is another big jump in capabilities. Our constraint in training compute is much improved."

He and likely many others internally had already driven it for weeks before making this statement. It is possible Elon had alpha tested V12.5 before going balls to the wall on RT.
Thanks for reminding me of that post. I wonder if the V12.4 big jump in capabilities includes Actually Smart Summon. That's going to be amazing. Who wouldn't pay $99/month for a piece of A.S.S. ?
 
Potus wants to triple steel and Aluminum import tariffs. Can he do it alone or does it need Congress to vote?

Inflation… huh? Could be just political posturing, but there is funding in the Infastructure bill for Steel Mfg in Pennsylvania and Ohio. Quoting the Whitehouse here.

Congress, “through the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and the Inflation Reduction Act, recently announced up to $1.5 billion for six clean iron and steel projects as part of a historic broader investment to lower emissions from energy-intensive industries. These projects are set to demonstrate innovative technologies that can eliminate the vast majority of emissions from steelmaking, and enable the industry to phase out more traditional carbon-intensive production methods.”

(Really?)

“They will support the economic comeback of steel communities in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and the South and Midwest, so the U.S. steel industry can remain competitive as the global leader in low-carbon iron and steel products.“