Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[rsm287]

HL are notorious in overcharging and providing poor customer service. I am in the process of moving all the remainder of my sipp and isa portfolios from them to Freetrade. ( who make voting very easy and also use crest ). Best of luck

As HL don't provide a voting service for US shares, I've just been looking at the possibility moving my HL SIPP and ISA accounts to Freetrade ( both 100% TSLA).

The only problem for me is that with the SIPP they say: At present, Freetrade only offers a form of withdrawal called an “uncrystallised funds pension lump sum”.

My understanding is that this means that for each withdrawal 25% will be tax free and the rest will be taxed as income. For me, in my situation, this is a deal breaker because I would like to take out a 25% lump sum (tax free) when I reach 55 and then get taxed on the remaining 75% whenever I make subsequent withdrawals in retirement.

 

[Ellec]

As HL don't provide a voting service for US shares, I've just been looking at the possibility moving my HL SIPP and ISA accounts to Freetrade ( both 100% TSLA).

The only problem for me is that with the SIPP they say: At present, Freetrade only offers a form of withdrawal called an “uncrystallised funds pension lump sum”.

My understanding is that this means that for each withdrawal 25% will be tax free and the rest will be taxed as income. For me, in my situation, this is a deal breaker because I would like to take out a 25% lump sum (tax free) when I reach 55 and then get taxed on the remaining 75% whenever I make subsequent withdrawals in retirement.

I don't think not being able to vote is enough of a factor to move brokers in my opinion. Too much hassle and you could potentially lose some profit and incur costs, especially if it moves up during the transfer. Our H&L votes are not going to make a difference to the result.

 

[rsm287]

I don't think not being able to vote is enough of a factor to move brokers in my opinion. Too much hassle and you could potentially lose some profit and incur costs, especially if it moves up during the transfer. Our H&L votes are not going to make a difference to the result.

I agree that as individuals the votes on our shares probably won't make a difference, but if there are enough of us (maybe hundreds of thousands of individuals with millions of shares between them?) then who knows. It's also the principal. If we cannot vote on matters that make a difference to the company, then are we really shareholders?

I was hoping to transfer my accounts as stock (which I believe is possible), so that I wouldn't be exposed to losing any if TSLA moved up during the process. Happy to be corrected if this information is wrong.

Edited to add: Also, there's the question of what happens with the votes on our shares if we are unable to vote. Are they going to be registered as a 'no' vote by the broker that acts as the 'holder' of the shares in the US?

 

[Stretch2727]

Love it. The future should look like the future, and this thing looks badass.

The more electric semis being built, the faster the ev transition.

Except it's a diesel hybrid.

 

[Usain]

So we had a big jump in $TSLA yesterday without any clear explanation. There was some positive news, but I've seen plenty of down days on news like we had.

So why the jump?

I thought of a possible explanation that went under the radar. Besides some new semi info and decent China numbers, the other thing that happened in the last couple of days is that FSD 12.4 went out to employees. Employees can buy stock. Employees can show their friends who buy stock. If the right person/people are impressed enough, they might decide to buy stock on the strength of 12.4.

Maybe FSD 12.4 is just that good.

 

[Crystal01]

As HL don't provide a voting service for US shares, I've just been looking at the possibility moving my HL SIPP and ISA accounts to Freetrade ( both 100% TSLA).

The only problem for me is that with the SIPP they say: At present, Freetrade only offers a form of withdrawal called an “uncrystallised funds pension lump sum”.

My understanding is that this means that for each withdrawal 25% will be tax free and the rest will be taxed as income. For me, in my situation, this is a deal breaker because I would like to take out a 25% lump sum (tax free) when I reach 55 and then get taxed on the remaining 75% whenever I make subsequent withdrawals in retirement.

That’s a good point. Most of my holdings are isa based. Like all things it’s down to individual circumstances what works best.

 

[jerry33]

Depends. Are you on a road with a prevailing speed of 50 mph or 20? Speed isn't the dangerous issue-difference in speed with regard to other vehicles is. And how many cyclists are maintaining 30mph?

25 km/h is a reasonable speed for a reasonably fit rider (not a racer).

 

[DaveXP]

That’s a good point. Most of my holdings are isa based. Like all things it’s down to individual circumstances what works best.

I'm in the UK and hold shares with Interactive Investor (ii) - I've messaged them directly and they WILL vote on the shareholders behalf if you let them know your voting preference for each proposal.

 

[Huskyf]

Strange after hours / pre market today ??? TSLA -4.09 (-2.19%

 

[CorneliusXX]

I'm in the UK and hold shares with Interactive Investor (ii) - I've messaged them directly and they WILL vote on the shareholders behalf if you let them know your voting preference for each proposal.

Same for me

 

[rsm287]

I'm in the UK and hold shares with Interactive Investor (ii) - I've messaged them directly and they WILL vote on the shareholders behalf if you let them know your voting preference for each proposal.

That's good to know, thanks. It seems they do offer a SIPP, so I will look into them. Do you know whether they would allow you to vote on shares held in a SIPP specifically? (some other providers I've looked at only offer a SIPP through third parties, which would make voting difficult).

 

[UkNorthampton]

HL charges are actually quite reasonable. I pay fixed fee of £16.66 per month (trade costs are additional but for me I HODL so dont too much care) on funds way over £1m.

I looked at Freetrade which are a little cheaper, for ISA funds to me they look fine, but their SIPP has no flexible drawdown facility - for me this is a deal breaker.

I may look at them for my ISA funds only - are you transferring shares rather than cash on transfer? I would be keen to do that as would not want to be out of market for any period on change of provider.

Tesla voting demand has changed many UK and Rest of Europe brokers' policies on USA stock voting. First time many of these brokers have allowed it (popular customer demand). This is remarkable.

My understanding is that you can transfer a SIPP just before retirement (in-specie) to get the flexible drawdown.

HL is seen as a reliable (big) provider - so a safe haven by many. HL holding fees are capped, but buying/selling shares can be expensive.

I believe HL are getting a lot of grief. I think they are the last of my providers to be holding out. I've had two messages to HL unanswered. They normally only allow UK/EU votes (quote, below).

There aren't enough trustworthy platforms in the UK in my opinion (I've got a bunch in case of a platform going broke), certainly not when you consider the £85k protection. I'm thinking of doing an ISA transfer to IKBR (Interactive Brokers), SIPPs are more complicated (only through advisor) and transfers must be full (so I have an intermediate platform as a stepping stone which allowed partial in-specie transfer in). The protection is USA, not UK - hence $500k instead of £85k - but putting trust in a foreign system isn't ideal.

I'm not doing anything until the vote deadline passes just in case HL change their minds as mid-transfer the voting isn't going to be available anyway (probably).

Can I vote on US Shares?
It is currently not possible to vote on US shares in your HL account.

We currently see little demand for voting on non-UK shares. In determining how to allocate resources to develop our service, we focus on areas based on various factors including client demand and need. At this time we are developing other areas of our service.

Should this change we will, of course, let our clients know.

 

[Zaddy Daddy]

Those sound like robotaxi timelines. The "rugged" version wouldn't be meant for offroad use, it would be meant for 24x7 usage as a robotaxi. Just hose the interior down at the end of the day or whatever.

Don't worry, there will be lots more pronouncements of "news" built on very slender reeds of misunderstood single facts.

That could very well be.

But that's all we have to go on, since the CEO himself refused to give more specific details on the earnings call.

The CEO's statements on the new vehicles going to be built on the current 3/Y lines were vague. He just said some of them will be cheaper - not that they would be the compact vehicle.

And when asked directly about it for clarity, Elon and Lars dismissed the question by saying they talked about it already.

This - combined with the Reuters false news on the $25,000 being de-prioritized - gives question to whether the compact car is coming anytime soon.

We are left to speculate.

IMO, it doesn't make sense that they are going to release the compact vehicle on the 3/Y lines say next year. Why? Because the volume planned doesn't make sense. They are saying they can add ~ 1 million production capacity total on existing lines, but that is going to be spread out over a few new versions of vehicles (he said "some" will be cheaper cost).

A cheaper compact car would assuredly call for more volume than say 500k a year. That's less than Model 3! Millions and millions of yearly demand right?

Given on the vague information and rumors, I can only ascertain that it's not a true compact being released in the next year or so.

What information am I missing that gives confidence that it's a compact vehicle being released and not a workvan + cheaper type of Model Y?

 

[hobbes]

So we had a big jump in $TSLA yesterday without any clear explanation. There was some positive news, but I've seen plenty of down days on news like we had.

So why the jump?

I thought of a possible explanation that went under the radar. Besides some new semi info and decent China numbers, the other thing that happened in the last couple of days is that FSD 12.4 went out to employees. Employees can buy stock. Employees can show their friends who buy stock. If the right person/people are impressed enough, they might decide to buy stock on the strength of 12.4.

Maybe FSD 12.4 is just that good.

Could also have been the rumour about Model 2 coming in 2026

 

[Stormy24]

Strange after hours / pre market today ??? TSLA -4.09 (-2.19%

Failed to keep stock down yesterday so (market,traders…) helped it up so now selling to take profit forcing it down to buy it again.Just opposite to normal or you could find something that fits this behavior. Just a thought probably wrong.

 

[unk45]

TBH its probably extremely unlikely. The use case for starlink is rural. They just cannot support the population density in a city, certainly not as well as ground based cell towers and wired internet can. And the use case for robotaxi is overwhelmingly urban.

Then why did Starlink just complete application for full mobile including newly designed small dishes, not to mention cellular service?:

SpaceX: Cellular Starlink System Works on iPhone, Pixel, Galaxy Devices

SpaceX also tells the FCC that its cellular Starlink system works indoors.

www.pcmag.com

It's only a matter of short time before T-Mobile cellular service connections for revised and expanded Premium connectivity happen in some markets, probably US first.

 

[DaveXP]

That's good to know, thanks. It seems they do offer a SIPP, so I will look into them. Do you know whether they would allow you to vote on shares held in a SIPP specifically? (some other providers I've looked at only offer a SIPP through third parties, which would make voting difficult).

I've got a SIPP and ISA with them (all in on both!) - I mentioned both in my query and they didn't seem to exclude the SIPP in thier message back to me. Hope that helps.

 

[dl003]

What do you mean "He's got to make it work"?

He already made it work, it's been working for over 20 years, that's how he earned the compensation in the first place.

But none of these affect my original point, the following are facts regardless of whether you think they're right (as in morally good, justified, or acceptable) or not:
1. Those who vote no want a full-time CEO
2. Elon can't be a full-time CEO of Tesla
3. Thus those who vote no want to remove Elon as CEO

Whether you think #2 is right or not is a separate issue, it doesn't affect the conclusion #3.

Thats where you are wrong. "Full time" is a perception for CEOs and that perception is earned through your actions and results. An employee is technically full time when he works at least 40 hours a week. They can have multiple jobs and be full time at each one of them. Theres a baseline for a "full time" CEO and that does not include spending every waking moment at the company. It does, however, include basic stuff like being on top of all executive decisions, acting in the best interest of the company and its shareholders, achieving good results, etc. Elon can be a full time CEO at every single on of his companies if people think hes done the best job that can be asked of anyone in his position. Apparently these people dont think Elon is getting things done at Tesla.

They are not complaining Elon is spending time at his other companies. Their complaint is Tesla suffers because hes doing so. Dont take my word for it

Notice how they say "distracted" by other companies? Is it too much for shareholders to wish for their CEO to not be distracted by anything? Thats what being a CEO means. Hell, thats what being an employee means.

So regardless of whether they are right or wrong in drawing the correlation between Tesla's underperformance and Elon's many commitment, they dont want a CEO who doesnt spend time outside of Tesla. What they want is a CEO that gets *sugar* done, regardless of how many companies they have.

Im not saying they are right or wrong or that Elon is failing. Im saying none of that. Im only saying you are mistakenly interpreting what they say.

 

[unk45]

You can though. Insurance is same day, final payment can happen day of/ day before pickup, and financing can happen in a day.
We submitted financing request Friday, approved Monday. Delivery notice a different Friday, payment submitted and insurance confirmed same day, picked up Saturday and that's with the lowest volume model in an adverse state.
Buying cars previously, I've walked into a dealship with no prep and driven home with a car. Once we had to have the specific model shipped in.

Which isn't to say his argument and conclusion are valid.

Same day completion of all documentation, including finance, insurance and title/registration has been done routinely for decades. In most locations around the world there are temporary 'plates' or some equivalent. I've personally done that and facilitated that numerous times in IIRC six different countries. That is not exactly the norm, but is quite common when the vehicles are in inventory and the process begins on a normal business day.

The finance deal didn't have a 2 day expiration date. If it did, then I can see people dropping everything they were going to do and work on their car purchase for the next 48hrs. However this isn't the case and I see no reason why a typical person would want to rush any of these processes just to pick up their car in under 48hrs.

It's understandable that such practices are not understandable to many people. Among many others those are a major convenience. Assuming one's own attitudes are those of everyone or almost everyone is invariably a way to miss large opportunities.

 

[jeewee3000]

I just voted my shares from EU (Belgium) in line with the board recommendations.

It cost me €35 (= ~$38) and a little hoop-jumping so I hope it was worth it.