jeewee3000
Active Member
If we're going that route...
Elon is scared s**tless of AGI, way more than his concerns regarding climate change.
So he is prioritizing building FSD/Optimus/xAI/Grok to reach AGI first.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Elon is scared s**tless of AGI, way more than his concerns regarding climate change.
So he is prioritizing building FSD/Optimus/xAI/Grok to reach AGI first.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
They're both abstaining for both-- presumably because of perception that vote is ALSO about his compensation
Official reasoning in the proxy also include:
(2) Mr. Musk and Kimbal Musk be recused from the Board’s deliberations and vote on this matter because of Mr. Musk’s prior posts on X about reincorporation; (3) the stockholder vote on reincorporation be conditioned on approval by a majority of votes cast by non-Musk-affiliated stockholders, for the same reasons;
IMO - the biggest pushback to EV's is the sky is falling rhetoric on Climate Change followed by the government mandates getting everyone worked up that they will be forced into a crappy Prius and choices will be taken away from them.
I have personally converted (or at least opened the minds) of several ICE driving right-of-center people to purchasing a Tesla in the last few years. They are sold on it simply because of the superior performance, technology and savings - not because of their fear of Climate Change.
If we really care about "The Mission" we need ALL people to consider getting EV's and we are fooling ourselves if we think more doom and gloom rhetoric will move the needle.
This is why I think (hope!) the Cybertruck will do more to mainstream EV's than any other Tesla model because it is targeted at a market that is least likely to get an EV.
I have personally converted (or at least opened the minds) of several ICE driving right-of-center people to purchasing a Tesla in the last few years. They are sold on it simply because of the superior performance, technology and savings - not because of their fear of Climate Change.
If we really care about "The Mission" we need ALL people to consider getting EV's and we are fooling ourselves if we think more doom and gloom rhetoric will move the needle.
This is why I think (hope!) the Cybertruck will do more to mainstream EV's than any other Tesla model because it is targeted at a market that is least likely to get an EV.
i think recusal will impact vote differently vs abstention
in a nut-shell, abstention is “the withholding of a vote [by a director],” whereas recusal is the “[r]emoval of oneself as judge or policy-maker in a particular matter, especially because of a conflict of interest.” (Black’s Law Dictionary (8th ed. 2004). Abstention generally focuses on the final decision, where recusal usually involves withdrawing from the entire proceeding.
in a nut-shell, abstention is “the withholding of a vote [by a director],” whereas recusal is the “[r]emoval of oneself as judge or policy-maker in a particular matter, especially because of a conflict of interest.” (Black’s Law Dictionary (8th ed. 2004). Abstention generally focuses on the final decision, where recusal usually involves withdrawing from the entire proceeding.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
It won't. There's no "recused" vote- it's just wording in the proxy around board decisions (hinting at your distinction, but not relevant to the actual vote). They are abstaining in the actual vote.
What abstain means for each vote is also spelled out in the proxy (and I cited some of it)--- for the texas vote it's a flat no. For the comp package vote it's a no on one of the three criteria (ALL of which must pass) but not relevant for the other two criteria.[/QUOTE]
This is what explains why Elon is taking a more laxed approach to the transition and climate. Was going to post nearly identical paragraphs.
My hook was FSD demo in 2016, then the first drive OMG! Just the single motor too. I was an ace in go-carts, and this was one full sized.
I was only going to add that continued pounding that green agenda could turn him into a monster who killed jobs etc… it would be counter productive to push harder.
It’s BS but necessary.
70% voted yes last time
With 3.19B shares outstanding a similar vote percentage means the no vote (30%) equates to 957M shares. Idiot Leo voting no on 27M shares equates to 0.8% of shares outstanding and only 2.8% of the total no vote assuming the same percentage of people vote yes/no.
A friendly re-reminder about the voting standards. The proxy statement has the answers. (https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000110465924053333/tm2326076d15_def14a.htm)
The required vote for Proposal 4 is detailed on pages 90-91. But basically, #3 (vote of a majority of the non-Musk shares at the meeting) is the hardest to pass. Elon/Kimball votes count under the first 2 standards so you don't need as many votes.
As to the question on telephone solicitations. It's completely normal and not a scam. They always say they are calling on behalf of the "Board" -- it sounds fancier (and is technically true).
It's much more expensive for the company so you don't tend to see it until the final weeks before a meeting.
The required vote for Proposal 4 is detailed on pages 90-91. But basically, #3 (vote of a majority of the non-Musk shares at the meeting) is the hardest to pass. Elon/Kimball votes count under the first 2 standards so you don't need as many votes.
As to the question on telephone solicitations. It's completely normal and not a scam. They always say they are calling on behalf of the "Board" -- it sounds fancier (and is technically true).
It's much more expensive for the company so you don't tend to see it until the final weeks before a meeting.
Paywalled article, but probably valid for investors in TSLA how this might impact things (some folks can probably read it on other investment sites):
Inside Donald Trump and Elon Musk’s Growing Alliance
[/QUOTE]
It's kind of a technicality, but I'm not sure where you're seeing they are abstaining from the actual votes in #3 and #4. I believe that's why the Board required the extra voting standard in each proposal.
Can you point to that language that says that Elon and Kimbal are outright abstaining?
I hope you're right. I briefly thought about a change.org petition asking him to change his vote. Would give us a place to elaborate our rationale for voting "for" - pretty sure it won't change his mind (either way), but if press picks it up.
lafrisbee
Active Member
I just remembered.
When Elon "created" paypal...and then there was a "difference of opinion" in which Elon was handed some cash and told to go away (This is how I saw it because he saw a much grander path for PayPal.
Well I wonder if history repeating itself is Mr Musk's biggest concern? Not that the two have that much in common, but Elon made a decision to lose his grip on tesla when he wanted to teach the world how to talk to one another and dumped all that TSLA stock.
He kinda thinks he can control everything?
Correction: He wants to control everything.
When Elon "created" paypal...and then there was a "difference of opinion" in which Elon was handed some cash and told to go away (This is how I saw it because he saw a much grander path for PayPal.
Well I wonder if history repeating itself is Mr Musk's biggest concern? Not that the two have that much in common, but Elon made a decision to lose his grip on tesla when he wanted to teach the world how to talk to one another and dumped all that TSLA stock.
He kinda thinks he can control everything?
Correction: He wants to control everything.
Can’t see it except for the following, “Donald Trump and Elon Musk have discussed a possible advisory role for the Tesla leader should the presumptive Republican nominee reclaim the White House, the latest sign that the once-frosty relationship between the two men has thawed.
The role hasn’t been fully hammered out and might not happen, people familiar with the talks said, but the two men discussed ways to give Musk formal input and influence over policies related to border security and the economy, both issues on which Musk has grown more vocal.”
So it appears to be a click-bait headline, though I would like to read the full article.
Please post more. It is hard to find lots of useful posts on X, but I haven’t given up trying. Signal to noise ratio is still greater here, though agree it has diminished.Respectfully, who do you believe Elon is supporting to win elections, and why would his choice be bad for his view on Climate Policy? Despite the socially-conditioned polarization that is unfortunately more apparent on TMC now than any time I can recall, all signs I see would suggest Elon supports RFK Jr more so than either Biden or Trump. Elon doesn't really seem to have any definable Dem-only or Rep-only position for that matter IMO. But that of course isn't covered by 'either side' of 'the news'. For instance, Elon hosted RFK Jr as a presidential candidate on Twitter Spaces to discuss Reclaiming Democracy last year. And then on May 7th Elon retweated a relatively-unknown 30-minute RFK Jr documentry hosted by Woody Harrelson to an audience that quickly grew to over 48 million people, saying it was "Worth Watching" after claims that it was getting censored by msm. And most recently he agreed to host a presidential debate that would include RFK Jr since other msm wouldn't, and he would of course do this on X for an audience at least an order of magnitude larger than any single network. Regardless of who any of us think will win, or who we want to win - from a Climate-Perspective Elon is amplifying a dialog from the only candidate that is openly discussing the immediate reduction in the size of our military and aggressively cleaning up our food and agricultural systems and our soils. And from a Climate-perspective, this is critical, since our US military is The World's Single Largest Consumer of Oil... That is worth reading a second time. It would rank 47th as a nation in GHG emmissions. And repairing the natural biomes of our soils through sustainable agriculture instread of simply eliminating farm production is exactly what Elon has been discussing for years as well. Again, somewhere between the boxes of Right and Left that we are all supposed to live in and listen to, there is a greater discussion Elon is sharing that would unify more of our individual Climate perspectives than divide them.
US military is world’s single largest consumer of oil, and as a result, one of the world’s top greenhouse gas emitters
Neta C. Crawford, Professor of Political Science and Department Chair at Boston University explains in an article on The Conversation website about the climate change concerns of America’s military…energyindemand.com
After all that Elon/Tesla weren't invited to - or participate in under the current administration, who couldn't understand his frustration with this administration? Does that mean he must take a position that is completely aligned with 'the other side'? Only if you believe there are only two sides to any story and no room in-between to think freely. And given that he gave up his advisory position under the Trump administration because of fundemental differences of opinion with the previous administration, wouldn't that mean he must be pro-Biden/Dem if there were only 2 sides to every story? Most posts on TMC seem to clearly disagree with any conclusion that Elon would be pro-Biden still. And they should. Elon - and the all the rest of us - are very likely to be much more complex - and more unified than the current paradigm wants us to believe. We don't have to take the 'Divide and Conquer' bait every time, and live in only this box or only that box. Thus, many of the conversations of late that have marginalized Elon's entire belief system to something as simple as Red-only or Blue-only are painful to wade through.
I have not posted much on TMC in recent years, primarly because I was witnessing a once-close community of very like-minded people letting themselves become divided by an ever-amplified social-conditioning from 'both sides'. This was frustrating for me, as I too found myself wanting to argue with people on TMC that I knew I tended to agree with on most topics. And it used to be absolutely fine to argue constructively - in fact it is very healthy that we all don't agree on everything. But I dug in my heels a time or two in my arguements until I finally decided that maybe it would be better if I gave up on the existing paradigm that was intentionally dividing us instead of those here on TMC and in my inner circles that I knew I had something in common with...which is almost everyone on this board with the exception of the Trolls - who after a dozen years of owning TSLA I love to see show up in force because that typically leads to an increase in our net worth (@GOVA is spot-on about that!)
So my sincere apologies to anyone here that I dug my heels in with - @Thekiwi and @phantasms and others.
Perhaps I should have prefaced this post with a comment that I recently returned home after taking 35 days to hike the full 500 miles of the Camino de Santiago Frances route from St Jean Pied de Port to the Cathedral plaza in Santiago de Compostella. During that time I remained unplugged from the world - and from divisiveness in general - as much as possible. I am not Catholic, nor do I profess following any single religion, however I am a very spiritual person. And by the end of the hike along a route that I shared with people of all faiths and all belief systems and all places of origin, I realized that the greatest cathedrals I saw along the route were the eyes that I looked into of every pilgrim I passed on the trail and shared a 'Buen Camino' moment with. I remember every face vivedly. Hundreds of them. And I was reminded of how powerful and how empowering it is when we embrace our similarities and look past our differences. And how we should look beyond the differences that others attempt to define of us. Once that happens, then things stand out as if they were written in red ink, or written by Trolls here on TMC.
TMC doesn't need to be the sour flavor many of us taste here as we read it of late. But that is what the Trolls come here to poison us with. And that is what we are poisoning each other with when things 'must be this if they aren't that'. The existing paradigm wins when we become divisive, and ultimately when we sell our shares to them as a result.
This is not the simplest answer as most would expect a yes vote from a major shareholder like Leo. Maybe I missed his reasons for his No vote. Any merit there? So lying is possible here, arguably more likely, else Leo is not who we think and he'd better start watching his own back.
Time to play dirty, I'm game. Climate Change?
Meh. X.ai is the new girlfriend... are you jealous yet? Hope so... (Not that I need to say it, but I voted yes weeks ago but Schwab was proactive.)
What exquisite selectivity.
Food production is responsible for one-quarter of the world’s greenhouse gas emissions
One-quarter of the world's greenhouse gas emissions result from food and agriculture. What are the main contributors to food's emissions?ourworldindata.org
Roughly one-quarter of the world's greenhouse gas emissions come from food production, the majority of those from farming.
Sell your tesla stock and let the only thing that remain
Between us be our friendship.
⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️
Village Idiot
[/QUOTE]
So basically the Musk's are voting no?
GhostSkater
Member
"You can checkout anytime you like, but you can never leave"Respectfully, who do you believe Elon is supporting to win elections, and why would his choice be bad for his view on Climate Policy? Despite the socially-conditioned polarization that is unfortunately more apparent on TMC now than any time I can recall, all signs I see would suggest Elon supports RFK Jr more so than either Biden or Trump. Elon doesn't really seem to have any definable Dem-only or Rep-only position for that matter IMO. But that of course isn't covered by 'either side' of 'the news'. For instance, Elon hosted RFK Jr as a presidential candidate on Twitter Spaces to discuss Reclaiming Democracy last year. And then on May 7th Elon retweated a relatively-unknown 30-minute RFK Jr documentry hosted by Woody Harrelson to an audience that quickly grew to over 48 million people, saying it was "Worth Watching" after claims that it was getting censored by msm. And most recently he agreed to host a presidential debate that would include RFK Jr since other msm wouldn't, and he would of course do this on X for an audience at least an order of magnitude larger than any single network. Regardless of who any of us think will win, or who we want to win - from a Climate-Perspective Elon is amplifying a dialog from the only candidate that is openly discussing the immediate reduction in the size of our military and aggressively cleaning up our food and agricultural systems and our soils. And from a Climate-perspective, this is critical, since our US military is The World's Single Largest Consumer of Oil... That is worth reading a second time. It would rank 47th as a nation in GHG emmissions. And repairing the natural biomes of our soils through sustainable agriculture instread of simply eliminating farm production is exactly what Elon has been discussing for years as well. Again, somewhere between the boxes of Right and Left that we are all supposed to live in and listen to, there is a greater discussion Elon is sharing that would unify more of our individual Climate perspectives than divide them.
US military is world’s single largest consumer of oil, and as a result, one of the world’s top greenhouse gas emitters
Neta C. Crawford, Professor of Political Science and Department Chair at Boston University explains in an article on The Conversation website about the climate change concerns of America’s military…
After all that Elon/Tesla weren't invited to - or participate in under the current administration, who couldn't understand his frustration with this administration? Does that mean he must take a position that is completely aligned with 'the other side'? Only if you believe there are only two sides to any story and no room in-between to think freely. And given that he gave up his advisory position under the Trump administration because of fundemental differences of opinion with the previous administration, wouldn't that mean he must be pro-Biden/Dem if there were only 2 sides to every story? Most posts on TMC seem to clearly disagree with any conclusion that Elon would be pro-Biden still. And they should. Elon - and the all the rest of us - are very likely to be much more complex - and more unified than the current paradigm wants us to believe. We don't have to take the 'Divide and Conquer' bait every time, and live in only this box or only that box. Thus, many of the conversations of late that have marginalized Elon's entire belief system to something as simple as Red-only or Blue-only are painful to wade through.
I have not posted much on TMC in recent years, primarly because I was witnessing a once-close community of very like-minded people letting themselves become divided by an ever-amplified social-conditioning from 'both sides'. This was frustrating for me, as I too found myself wanting to argue with people on TMC that I knew I tended to agree with on most topics. And it used to be absolutely fine to argue constructively - in fact it is very healthy that we all don't agree on everything. But I dug in my heels a time or two in my arguements until I finally decided that maybe it would be better if I gave up on the existing paradigm that was intentionally dividing us instead of those here on TMC and in my inner circles that I knew I had something in common with...which is almost everyone on this board with the exception of the Trolls - who after a dozen years of owning TSLA I love to see show up in force because that typically leads to an increase in our net worth (@GOVA is spot-on about that!)
So my sincere apologies to anyone here that I dug my heels in with - @Thekiwi and @phantasms and others.
Perhaps I should have prefaced this post with a comment that I recently returned home after taking 35 days to hike the full 500 miles of the Camino de Santiago Frances route from St Jean Pied de Port to the Cathedral plaza in Santiago de Compostella. During that time I remained unplugged from the world - and from divisiveness in general - as much as possible. I am not Catholic, nor do I profess following any single religion, however I am a very spiritual person. And by the end of the hike along a route that I shared with people of all faiths and all belief systems and all places of origin, I realized that the greatest cathedrals I saw along the route were the eyes that I looked into of every pilgrim I passed on the trail and shared a 'Buen Camino' moment with. I remember every face vivedly. Hundreds of them. And I was reminded of how powerful and how empowering it is when we embrace our similarities and look past our differences. And how we should look beyond the differences that others attempt to define of us. Once that happens, then things stand out as if they were written in red ink, or written by Trolls here on TMC.
TMC doesn't need to be the sour flavor many of us taste here as we read it of late. But that is what the Trolls come here to poison us with. And that is what we are poisoning each other with when things 'must be this if they aren't that'. The existing paradigm wins when we become divisive, and ultimately when we sell our shares to them as a result.
I did listen to Kennedy's talk with Elon last year. It was refreshingly candid and mature in substance. Your post is also candid, and of high quality - important now. Hang in there.
I'm not surprised at how folks dig in with "He's for this or that, so time to hate on something..." Trolls stirring the pot for sure, and the Mods allowing some for my reasons given.
Good news though, the tension (and trolls) disappear in a single pop. It should not be long now. (Maybe even part of the plan to pay Elon, somehow.)
So far in Q2, demand sounds strong with the 1.99% loans, then we have FSD etc... Summer is coming and people will want it for their road trips - oh for sure on that! I'm guessing >50% believe it or not. It might not stick after summer, or might be further encouraged with insurance options or some safety campaign, we'll see.
As neg as this site is, I'm
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