Wayve has raised $1B. It won't be enough. They will need an IPO to raise the capitol necessary to land 5 years behind Tesla.
So you might get your wish.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
So you might get your wish.
ToTheStars
Member
OT as well
I'm currently on a road trip in my Model 3 Highland from The Netherlands through Scandinavia. Copenhagen, Oslo and Bergen all have a lot of EVs, it's wonderful. This is my first road trip with an EV and I have to say I have never experienced range anxiety, because Superchargers are available each 50 km or so, it's insane.
Huh?
Base MSRPs:
$23.5k for Toyota Corolla Hybrid
$28k for Toyota Prius
$28.4k for Toyota Camry (all Hybrid)
$32k RAV4 Hybrid (AWD)
What "many EVs" are you referring to? I assume you don't mean the Leaf 40kWh.
None of those vehicles at that base price offer features comparable to any Tesla vehicle
Apples to donuts.
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
Institutions are changing how they value $TSLA. The vast majority look at TSLA how I do: 1/ EV business (TAM x EV adoption % x TSLA EV share x ASP x auto gross margin); 2/ FSD (TSLA fleet x EV take rate x $/month); 3/ Energy; 4/ Service/Charging. Many of us see 5/ Robotaxi and 6/ Optimus becoming big TSLA businesses in the future and so want to include valuations for both, but until we see working prototypes that we can compare to everything else out there (so we can size potential TSLA market shares) and attach unit economics to them, we can’t estimate earnings or cash flow ests with any degree of confidence and therefore leave them out of TSLA’s valuation - for now.That said, with a 2024 P/E of 75x (was 50-55x at start of 2024) and TSLA’s EV business barely growing (PEG absurdly high), clearly there is a shift in thinking underway about TSLA valuation with increased weight being put on Robotaxi/Optimus. It will likely come down to can TSLA continue to grow global EV adoption (still only 15%) via a $25K compact and great advertising (AAPL model) until Robotaxi and Optimus prove out and begin to scale. With 72% shareholder support (3:1) for Elon’s comp plan, clearly investors see
@elonmusk
as the perfect manager to lead TSLA into the AI future.
@elonmusk
as the perfect manager to lead TSLA into the AI future.
You didn't say "comparable to Tesla." So why are you moving the goalposts?
What's your agenda bro?
It's incorrect to say "it's surprising shareholders are willing to give Elon such a massive chunk", the "massive chuck" was already essentially given in 2018, the stolen from Musk by the Delaware Chancery
But I dare-say that if Tesla BoD were to put a similar future package forward based on growing the company valuation 10x from here (as was the case in 2018) then I think that would also pass resoundingly
Sure, it's a lot of money, but if it meant your current investment going 10x or more, you'd be pretty dumb not to agree to that, by comparison any dilution is essentially meaningless
Maybe they are exporting most of the production. I see a lot of M3H here in Europe and that's where they're coming from
You wrote "hybrids" and "many EVs", not "hybrids with all the relevant features of a Tesla" and "Teslas".
The market doesn't all care about all the features in a Tesla.
RAV4 Hybrid with the features I really care about is $34.2k, Prius $33k, Corolla $27.3k*, Camry $31.2k*.
For BEVs, ignoring the Leaf, the cheapest long-range BEV with sufficient specs is the Kona SEL, at $36.7k.
Maybe when Chevrolet releases the Boltium it'd come in closer.
* Would not want because sedan.
Waiting4M3
Active Member
All the talks about hybrid vs BEVs are missing the forest for the trees. China gets it, the biggest money maker for fossil OEMs are the big gas-guzzling ICE cars. You want to win an EV trade war? you take out the profit center that funds fossil OEMs EV transition
Important warning to those with dogs: Tesla's Dog Mode not working in 2024.20.1, fix coming soon
Tesla delivered ~9% fewer cars in 24Q1 compared to 23Q1, in 23Q2 Tesla delivered ~10% more cars than in 23Q1
So if they were to delivery the same in Q2 as Q1 it would be -17% compared to 24Q2, and the only way that would "help shape the narrative" is that the stock would drop hard
I think the minimum number they beed for Q2 is 420k, which put's it on par with the Q1 drop YoY
But as things look right now I fear that even 400k might be a stretch... hard to tell, but China and Europe numbers not looking so pretty. Maybe there are other territories making up for its but the CN wholesale numbers don't seem to indicate that either
We shall see! I can't recall seeing. an estimate from @Troy recently...?
shrspeedblade
Rideshare Monkey
If you think the vast majority of those vehicles sell for anywhere near the base price, you're fooling yourself or being deliberately misleading (I used to work in the auto biz, sorry those are 'get you on the lot' prices!)
In regard to the "people don't want EVs they want hybrids" I have a somewhat unique perspective as I have:
-90k miles in a Chevy Volt, 60% of which were electric
-300k miles in two Tesla Model 3s (the first one got hit and totaled at 200k)
-have given rides for 10,000+ people and have had literally thousands of conversations with people from all over the world about this (I drive in a big tourist mecca).
I would buy another Model 3 before I would take a Volt or something like it for free- and I still say it was a good car and I liked it at the time. (Yes, I'm assuming I couldn't just flip it.)
It's a little depressing just how effective the misinformation campaign by those protecting their market share has been. Most people are stunned how easy it is for me to drive to Key West, FL or anywhere in between (from CA) and to hear about my many road trips. Most people haven't really thought how much easier an EV is to own, especially due to the lack of maintenance and it being "full every morning" if you can charge near home and how "range anxiety" is for the most part a created, artificial problem. Don't even get me started on the performance of the car or FSD.
Is it a little better than when I first drove a Model 3 home almost six years ago to the day? Maybe a little, but overall in some ways it is even worse. People are even more entrenched. The media click bait misinformation, automotive media litany of misleading headlines, news stories from organizations aligned with big oil (guess!), have truly taken control of the narrative. It is far easier to influence people to make up their mind than to get them to change it once it has been made up. I don't even like Gary Black much but on this one topic, I'm sorry, he really has his finger on the pulse of reality. People at Tesla and some ardent Tesla supporters do not. They need to aggressively push back against this misinformation, including through legal means when warranted.
In regard to the "people don't want EVs they want hybrids" I have a somewhat unique perspective as I have:
-90k miles in a Chevy Volt, 60% of which were electric
-300k miles in two Tesla Model 3s (the first one got hit and totaled at 200k)
-have given rides for 10,000+ people and have had literally thousands of conversations with people from all over the world about this (I drive in a big tourist mecca).
I would buy another Model 3 before I would take a Volt or something like it for free- and I still say it was a good car and I liked it at the time. (Yes, I'm assuming I couldn't just flip it.)
It's a little depressing just how effective the misinformation campaign by those protecting their market share has been. Most people are stunned how easy it is for me to drive to Key West, FL or anywhere in between (from CA) and to hear about my many road trips. Most people haven't really thought how much easier an EV is to own, especially due to the lack of maintenance and it being "full every morning" if you can charge near home and how "range anxiety" is for the most part a created, artificial problem. Don't even get me started on the performance of the car or FSD.
Is it a little better than when I first drove a Model 3 home almost six years ago to the day? Maybe a little, but overall in some ways it is even worse. People are even more entrenched. The media click bait misinformation, automotive media litany of misleading headlines, news stories from organizations aligned with big oil (guess!), have truly taken control of the narrative. It is far easier to influence people to make up their mind than to get them to change it once it has been made up. I don't even like Gary Black much but on this one topic, I'm sorry, he really has his finger on the pulse of reality. People at Tesla and some ardent Tesla supporters do not. They need to aggressively push back against this misinformation, including through legal means when warranted.
If Tesla was an actually transparent company we'd be able to see the trend lines of each model in the quarterly P&D report.
I would like to see some trend lines of each model from these other transparent companies since Tesla lacks so much transparency.
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