Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
...You joke, but Tesla's already taking advantage of this. Our main Denver service/delivery center (also a showroom) is a former BMW dealer location that Tesla scooped up when the former tenant vacated.
For being a big Silicon Valley company Tesla is surprisingly good at buying things on the cheap. A while ago I drove by a BMW dealer, they have their most expensive car up on a pedestal, it was a Model X. It may have been traded in for a BMW, but it was quite a sign of the times. Last time I went to that dealer they did a classic bait and switch on me (do you still have xyz car? yeah sure come on in for a test drive...uh yeah let me just go get it, in the meantime do you want to take a look at some new cars, half an hour later, uh we can't seem to find that car anymore.)
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: Jovian
For me, Model 3 best car ever. Okay, I've owned several 240z, an rx7, the 300zx, porsche 951, several 911s now that you'll not pry from me because they are air cooled and NOTHING will touch them... it's not about 0-60 in that department at all. It is more of the grass roots aspect of the car, very much the same reason I lover the model 3 right now. But we also own benz and audi. We've been down the toyota, lexus path as well. Yes, plush customer wait areas and loaners when getting service. Uhg. I am a gear head at heart, have made bio diesel, own two diesels now, burn fuel at race tracks when I get the time to do it. Yes, carbon footprint balance now that I own a LR AWD 3. But I'm not fretting over maintenance like I am with the fleet of ICE cars. Sure the diesels have torque and range. We use them for the long trips when hauling the family as a whole. The 3's not for that. The 3 is in-town, around town, to the beach and back, to the mountains and back, conveniently always charged and ready to go... we share it all day long. But I am going to road trip it New Jersey to Florida... because I can. The route is lined with Super Chargers. I know I can recharge in 50 in between 4 hours of driving.

About the stock, in long as well. I personally feel the bankers and shorts are SC*()@AGs. It is a free market and we can work both sides. They are smart and able, game on. Unfortunately, no clear way to get to each as to how I really feel. I get the share holder return thing and I also get the fact that bankers are expected to profit. But what other disruptive industry have they worked so hard against? The whole VW diesel thing was a joke. Most all Cummins diesels today blow far more pollutants than my Jetta TDI did. Why didn't the EPA go after the US manufacturers as they had with VW group?

Anyone in the industry should be ashamed to publish the nonsense they are writing about Tesla. Many don't own a Tesla or know first hand how different of a company this is. It's not a cash cow business we've been milked by for years.

My writing wanders, feel free to pick at it. I'll not care or bother to reply.

great take.
model 3 penetrating multiple demographics...absolutely everybody loves it. it’s changed anyones mind, thatll give it a chance.
no wonder they’re trying so hard to kill it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Duffer and capster
And that item was seen by as many people as live in... Mobile, Alamaba (no offence). Like I stated yesterday: aren't we giving too much weight to CNBC's reporting? And aren't of lot of those (on average) 195,000 watchers using the channel as background noise?

I think it matters for TSLA, as the people watching CNBC tend to be of the investor class. I'd like to see Tesla send someone to atleast join some of these panels and correct inaccuracies that are spewed about. For instance I'm pretty sure NOA does react to turn signals, and will yield, atleast in my own experience, yet Consumer Reports says it does not.
 
I think we have the same problem we've always had — lack of understanding and vision. The main question I have is what happened to so much of the institutional investment that built up in recent years. (Writing an article about it right now.)
To me the biggest question is this.
- There is an industry growing 70%+ year over year
- One company is the clear market leader

Has that company ever gone suddenly bankrupt ? I can't think of any other situation.

The only way the bear argument makes sense is to assume
- EV will remain a niche for ever (for this you have assume either climate change is a hoax or countries will never take it seriously)
- Suddenly existing ICE players will overtake and obliterate Tesla, though they haven't in the last 10 years
- Tesla is a fraud

This is the reason why we keep hearing these 3 arguments by bears. Because the bull case is very simple.
 
Been thinking the same thing.

Seeing all the Teslas around now, and knowing that each one spreads to friends and families, I suspect they won’t need to advertise for quite a while.
My brother, who has been a fanatic Volvo driver for decades and his wife who drives a big SUV today test-drove the Model 3. They will be ordering a 3 and a pre-raven S. They are blown away. I think this is happening all around the country (and the globe).
 
StarLink in orbit. Successful booster recovery. Satellite deployment soon.
Deployment is going to be the only knuckle-biter this time, beyond just getting off the pad and past max-Q (since this is the heaviest payload they've ever flown). The rest of the flight to orbit and booster recovery were "ordinary" :)

Deployment should be in a few minutes... :eek:
 
Update: Received an email saying after making adjustments to the route I'll be able to keep my tour appointment after all. Wonder if I'll catch a glimpse of areas being...improved.

Also, yesterday as a distraction to SP action I started playing around with the InsideEVs plugin data and created this visualization. The Model 3 bar is fun to watch.

US Plug In EV Sales 2012 - Present
This was indeed fun to watch, especially the Model 3 just zoom to the top like a SpaceX launch! You should tweet this to Elon!
 
To me the biggest question is this.
- There is an industry growing 70%+ year over year
- One company is the clear market leader

Has that company ever gone suddenly bankrupt ? I can't think of any other situation.

The only way the bear argument makes sense is to assume
- EV will remain a niche for ever (for this you have assume either climate change is a hoax or countries will never take it seriously)
- Suddenly existing ICE players will overtake and obliterate Tesla, though they haven't in the last 10 years
- Tesla is a fraud

This is the reason why we keep hearing these 3 arguments by bears. Because the bull case is very simple.

I agree, broadly. But maybe Netscape would qualify? The cases aren't precisely parallel, but I see some similarities. In its time Netscape saw rapid growth in browsers, servers, and e-commerce, such as they were back then. Microsoft woke up to the threat and slowly crushed it. First came FUD, then embrace-and-extend products leveraged on Microsoft's existing businesses. Netscape didn't go bankrupt: part was sold to Sun, part to AOL, and part is still around as the not-for-profit Mozilla organization.

In Tesla's case there's plenty of FUD, perhaps funded by oil, auto, and union interests. That may be hurting consumer acceptance. But I think it'll take more than that, and I don't see a viable actor to play Microsoft's role. The closest candidate today is probably VW: they're big enough, and the new CEO Herbert Diess is making the right noises about EVs. He may honestly want to turn VW in the right direction. However that's a tall order, and I don't see where they have the equivalent of Microsoft's leverage with Windows and Office.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: StapleGun
I agree, broadly. But maybe Netscape would qualify? The cases aren't precisely parallel, but I see some similarities. In its time Netscape saw rapid growth in browsers, servers, and e-commerce, such as they were back then. Microsoft woke up to the threat and slowly crushed it. First came FUD, then embrace-and-extend products leveraged on Microsoft's existing businesses. Netscape didn't go bankrupt: part was sold to Sun, part to AOL, and part is still around as the not-for-profit Mozilla organization.
I remember a long time back Ballmer showing a big collage of companies in the company annual meeting. What did they all have in common ? All collapsed because Microsoft started to compete in those markets - from Lotus 123, WordStar, Borland, Netscape etc etc. Microsoft owned the OS and desktop. So they could easily push their s/w over rivals. With netscape it was easy to offer free IE and kill off Netscape. Regulators of course did a terrible job.

In Tesla's case there's plenty of FUD, perhaps funded by oil, auto, and union interests. That may be hurting consumer acceptance. But I think it'll take more than that, and I don't see a viable actor to play Microsoft's role. The closest candidate today is probably VW: they're big enough, and the new CEO Herbert Diess is making the right noises about EVs. He may honestly want to turn VW in the right direction. However that's a tall order, and I don't see where they have the equivalent of Microsoft's leverage with Windows and Office.
If VW owned all the roads in the world, yes, it would be a good comparison to MSFT. VW hasn't even been able to break into the US market. More importantly the market is expanding so fast and can do so for next 20 years. And VW can't offer free EVs for everyone ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: wipster
Further to this, I think it's useful to look in a bit more detail at what this tells us about demand.
The 50k net orders so far in Q2 maps to a current quarterly net order rate of c.90k. There are some factors holding this back and some factors possibly artificially boosting it relative to a pure run rate demand level.

Factors acting against the current 90k order rate.
  • US SR+ launch in Q1 will have pulled orders into Q1 and created a backlog.
  • Still adverse seasonality in 1H.
  • Orders normally skewed to final month due to end of Q sales push/discounts.
  • Many China customers will be waiting for the significantly cheaper GF3 Model 3s.
  • Some S/X customers will be waiting for a further refresh as has been heavily rumoured.
  • Relentless FUD
  • No marketing.
  • Still no Model 3 launch or direct S/X sales in many countries in the world.
  • Some lingering demand pull forward impact from the tax credit changes in US and Holland at the end of 2018.
  • No GF3 production which will dramatically reduce end consumer prices in China and dramatically increase the addressable market.
  • No Model Y yet available! The Tesla product with the largest addressable market.
  • No Pickup. No Semi.
  • $200k+ lifetime financial, health and environmental subsidies for every ICE car sold.
Factors boosting the current 90k order rate.
  • SR+ was launched in Europe and Asia during Q2, as well as leasing in US, which will have released some pent up demand/reservation conversions into orders.
  • Some demand pull forward benefit in the US due to a smaller tax credit step down at the end of Q2.
  • Some demand pull forward benefit in China due to fears of rising tariffs.
  • Some pent up demand for Raven S/X cars.
On the whole, I think there are far more short term factors holding back the current 3/S/X order rate than those currently boosting it.
It looks to me like Tesla will again be supply constrained on all models in Q2, however demand and supply are tracking close to each other at current pricing and ideally Tesla would have more of an imbalance and more pricing power.


So given current demand level, when to advertise?
At the point where either Tesla's deliveries or pricing becomes significantly held back by demand, it makes 100% sense to start advertising. I'm glad Elon finally acknowledged advertising as a possibility last week. As Elon says, Tesla advertising will be "information & entertainment" rather than manipulation. It is not fair currently that such a large % of the population are stuck buying more expensive/inferior/dangerous cars because they are simply unaware or misinformed about the advantages of EVs and the value of Teslas. At some stage, advertising will become a necessary evil to widen Tesla's addressable market beyond the exclusive club of Elon's Twitter followers and friends of current owners. Tesla currently averages around $10k gross profit per car - I think advertising spend could make sense up to this amount per car on marginal car sales to customers they do not currently reach. At the point where Tesla is demand rather than supply constrained, increased demand will mean they can increase production rates which reduces costs and increases margins across all cars. It also puts more cars on the road which increases their word of mouth customer marketing and also puts more potential future Robotaxis on the road. It also increase their ability to increase pricing and gross margins.

So for example, if Tesla's 3/S/X Fremont run rate car demand gets to c.100k quarter, but they have a path to getting production to 120k, it would make sense to spend up to $10k/car in advertising to win the incremental 20k demand - or c.$200m per quarter (this is just an example, I doubt they're ever going to have to pay this much to boost demand to supply capacity). This would lead to significantly higher net profit than if they had sold just 100k cars with no advertising spend - even though in this extreme example the full gross profit of the 20k incremental sales was spent on advertising (because the gross profit of the other 100k cars increased due to operating leverage). This would have the added benefit of removing the incentive for the media to attack Tesla in favour of their current paying auto advertising customers.
This was ReflexFunds replying to himself. His original post was a reply to FC. All great posts but not that many "likes" which means my scanning method missed some. These posts are why I read this thread. I hope they start posting on another thread because this noise is now off the charts.

So you're skipping some posts then...?
It's funny because it's true.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/arks-open-source-valuation-model-for-tsla.153608/
Good potential thread but Mr Solar Aussie thinks that a decent discussion on a specific point can be held on this thread....
For me, this is like going to a wine tasting whilst drinking from a fire hydrant.