What do you mean
edit - Ah! Kicked out of auto show, I must have misread first time.
?
edit - Ah! Kicked out of auto show, I must have misread first time.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
And in that, my friend, is an earned flower in your cap which should move you up the pecking order of fellow TMC members.
But... how did it ever get to the 350's in the first place and mostly stay there for so long before the 420 tweet just a year or so ago?
It won't if Tesla uses surplus profits to grow.
Elon isn't tribal, AFAICS he is holding a healthy mix of coservo-liberal and libero-conservative views that make both camps unhappy.
Politically, Musk has described himself as "half Democrat, half Republican" and "I'm somewhere in the middle, socially liberal and fiscally conservative."
So by his own admission he is a fiscal conservative... what does this mean?
Fiscal conservatism - Wikipedia
> Fiscal conservatism, also referred to as conservative economics or economic conservatism, is a political-economic philosophy regarding fiscal policy and fiscal responsibility advocating low taxes, reduced government spending and minimal government debt.[1] Free trade, deregulation of the economy, lower taxes and privatization are the defining qualities of fiscal conservatism. Fiscal conservatism follows the same philosophical outlook of classical liberalism and economic liberalism.[2] The term has its origins in the era of the New Deal during the 1930s as a result of the policies initiated by reform or modern liberals, when many classical liberals started calling themselves conservatives as they did not wish to be identified with what was passing for liberalism.
Note the part about low taxes
Aren't those TSLA related links actually ads placed via paid Google placement or something? Could somebody with such an advertising account - Google Adwords or whatever it is - just as easily arrange for a pro-Tesla ad to go there? Just wondering if that's how that works, not suggesting anyone should actually do that. Certainly not advice.
I think the growth story dominated the market. For some reason a bad quarter (still good historically) and people decide it is fiction. But heck if I know.
Are you talking about Elon or Chomsky being a libertarian? Libertarian is used so confusingly!!
Anyway both Chomsky and Elon support a carbon tax:
Chomsky:
Noam Chomsky: Moral Depravity Defines US Politics | Global Policy Journal
Elon:
Elon Musk’s Powerful Case for a Carbon Tax
> For people that have a sort of libertarian bent they get a little confused. . . They need to appreciate the high level principle of why they are opposed to government intervention. They are actually opposed to government intervention because it causes false pricing. If the government says we are going to massively incent the production of corn, so that effectively corn gets mispriced and we make too much corn, that . . . does not benefit the country if you make too much of something because of a government driven pricing error . . . That is sort of what people with a libertarian bent are opposed to.
However if you have . . . an unpriced externality [with] the CO2 capacity of the oceans and atmosphere priced very close to zero then any government action to increase the price above zero reduces the error in the economy. [What libertarians] should actually be opposed to is anything that increases the error in the economy, a pricing information error. So pricing carbon, if you believe in global warming, does not increase the price of the error it decreases the price of the error.
Anyway, I think the difference between Chomsky and Elon just come down to the main differences between liberal conservatism (Elon) and libertarian socialism (Chomsky).
Liberal conservatism - Wikipedia
Libertarian socialism - Wikipedia
Although even on topics of free markets I think you will find a lot of overlap between Chomsky and Elon. They both want actually free markets rather than the rigged ones which exist today and they want externalities priced into them.
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In the regular chart/search page those are just popular news stories related to the search. Of course it's certainly possible that people are buying ad space in order to boost the presence of certain stories.
dqd88
Member
A practical example of that is healthcare. A hard fiscal conservative would say no to socialized health care because it would cost too much. A left wing liberal would say it should be socialized regardless of taxes or spending. A socially liberal fiscal conservative would look at it like a businessperson a) this might be good for my fellow humans (or employees/customers), we should take a look at the numbers b) then after taking a look at the numbers they will say we should do it because while it is more expensive in the short-term it's costs less in the long term. It makes sense socially and fiscally in the long-term.Politically, Musk has described himself as "half Democrat, half Republican" and "I'm somewhere in the middle, socially liberal and fiscally conservative."
So by his own admission he is a fiscal conservative... what does this mean?
Fiscal conservatism - Wikipedia
> Fiscal conservatism, also referred to as conservative economics or economic conservatism, is a political-economic philosophy regarding fiscal policy and fiscal responsibility advocating low taxes, reduced government spending and minimal government debt.[1] Free trade, deregulation of the economy, lower taxes and privatization are the defining qualities of fiscal conservatism. Fiscal conservatism follows the same philosophical outlook of classical liberalism and economic liberalism.[2] The term has its origins in the era of the New Deal during the 1930s as a result of the policies initiated by reform or modern liberals, when many classical liberals started calling themselves conservatives as they did not wish to be identified with what was passing for liberalism.
Note the part about low taxes
Lucky for us Elon tweets so much there is an answer for all his positions... with regards to tax it's somewhere a little below the European tax rates which cap out around 45-50%:
Elon Musk on Twitter
> Yeah, all-inclusive tax rate of 40% seems about right. Below 30% is unrealistic for critical govt functions unless national defense is de facto outsourced & above 50% too negatively affects economic output.
Anyway - kind of off topic - maybe it was his signature after all
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
The owner's who were kicked out should have parked their Tesla's on the street, just outside of the Auto Show entrance, with signs saying, "See the cars that are so advanced and threatening to the rest of the industry that they were kicked out of the Auto Show!".
Dan Detweiler
Active Member
He's a Libertarian but doesn't know it yet. That was Gary Johnson's description of Libertarianism during the last Presidential election. Socially liberal and fiscally conservative.Politically, Musk has described himself as "half Democrat, half Republican" and "I'm somewhere in the middle, socially liberal and fiscally conservative."
So by his own admission he is a fiscal conservative... what does this mean?
Fiscal conservatism - Wikipedia
> Fiscal conservatism, also referred to as conservative economics or economic conservatism, is a political-economic philosophy regarding fiscal policy and fiscal responsibility advocating low taxes, reduced government spending and minimal government debt.[1] Free trade, deregulation of the economy, lower taxes and privatization are the defining qualities of fiscal conservatism. Fiscal conservatism follows the same philosophical outlook of classical liberalism and economic liberalism.[2] The term has its origins in the era of the New Deal during the 1930s as a result of the policies initiated by reform or modern liberals, when many classical liberals started calling themselves conservatives as they did not wish to be identified with what was passing for liberalism.
Note the part about low taxes
Dan
Fact Checking
Well-Known Member
Lucky for us Elon tweets so much there is an answer for all his positions... with regards to tax it's somewhere a little below the European tax rates which cap out around 45-50%:
Elon Musk on Twitter
> Yeah, all-inclusive tax rate of 40% seems about right. Below 30% is unrealistic for critical govt functions unless national defense is de facto outsourced & above 50% too negatively affects economic output.
Anyway - kind of off topic - maybe it was his signature after all
BTW., while Elon's tweets are often silly and sometimes outright poorly considered, the depth of some of Elon's tweets is also sometimes scary.
The "de facto outsourced national defense" likely refers to NATO membership, which allows geographically fortunately placed countries like Ireland to have only 0.4% of GDP military spending, while the U.S.A has almost 4% of military spending if we also include non-discretionary expenses like the cost of past wars through the veteran's health budget.
Anyway, current taxation of U.S. billionaires is very low: those making $10m or more per year pay an effective tax rate of 19% (!), and for billionaires it's even better: basically only a capital gains tax rate of 20% if they convert their earned income/wealth to cash. So in practice much of the true income of U.S. billionaires in the last 10 years was taxed at 0%.
Hence the "raise our taxes please" letter.
Fact Checking
Well-Known Member
Elon supports a tax rate in the 40%-ish range, which is more than twice than the ~19% tax those with $10m or more are paying in the U.S. at the moment. He called "lower than 40%" and "higher than 50%" counterproductive, i.e. his range is 40-50%.
If you want to call that libertarian then most of Europe is libertarian.
Mader Levap
Member
I think people that like Musk and are libertarians really, really want to see libertarian in Musk.
dqd88
Member
At the end of the day there are just too many people on the planet. Population will likely continue increasing; consumption will increase, esp in developing countries. One of my "dystopian future" solutions is that we will have to replace our biological parts (arms/legs/etc) with robotic ones. Each body part requires a certain kcal to operate, and being biological cannot run on electrical energy; we cannot continue cutting down forests (for veggies or meat). If we can replace biological parts with robotic then we can have same function that runs on electrical/renewable energy. Then we as a species can expand much larger under a given limit of total energy consumption. Plus, we won't have to worry about body parts wearing out or getting diseased. Eventually we'll be all robotics from the neck down. Then we can run on mostly solar.
Fact Checking
Well-Known Member
OT,
I have plenty of conservative friends and relatives, all of whom are loving parents and care about their kids and about the future of their kids and their communities.
Humans are perfectly capable of maintaining cognitive dissonance between their character, their political/tribal beliefs/affiliations and reality, indefinitely.
The "I don't care what happens in 30 years" reaction is often an expression of the belief that it will all be fine and is going to work out, either through industrious (and free) people, or through a higher power. It is also an expression of the belief that it cannot possibly work out through the demonized entity called 'government' - which belief is sometimes irrational, but sometimes also based in facts.
I have plenty of conservative friends and relatives, all of whom are loving parents and care about their kids and about the future of their kids and their communities.
Humans are perfectly capable of maintaining cognitive dissonance between their character, their political/tribal beliefs/affiliations and reality, indefinitely.
The "I don't care what happens in 30 years" reaction is often an expression of the belief that it will all be fine and is going to work out, either through industrious (and free) people, or through a higher power. It is also an expression of the belief that it cannot possibly work out through the demonized entity called 'government' - which belief is sometimes irrational, but sometimes also based in facts.
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