Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[PhaseWhite]

When it comes to something as lawsuit-heavy as driverless cars, it's a bet-the-company risk. Musk said he wouldn't do that any more!

I agree. Another issue with the idea that car companies will assume the risk is that they have very large pockets which will in turn make them big targets. If I'm driving my car and I cause a catastrophic accident the most someone can get out of me is what my insurance will cover + my assets. If Tesla (or any large OEM) assumes liability that shifts the risk reward scale dramatically for high powered law firms.

 

[PhaseWhite]

Mark my words right now:

1) You will never be able to buy that car for $65K with the performance package.
2) It won't do 0-60 in 2.9 seconds under typical conditions
3) The 0-60 times will be much more variable than any Tesla and you will need luck and a lot of driver skill to even close to the published 0-60 time published by auto mags (which won't be 2.9 seconds).
4) It will guzzle gas like a drunken sailor in city traffic.
5) It will have a high cost of ownership due to lots of premium gas, oil and expensive maintenance.

Watch and see.

It does have a feature I like. In addition to the small rear trunk, that can hold a few groceries or a couple of small golf bags, it also has a frunk!

Dealer markups on these will be huge.... And I agree, on the street a P3D will have a good chance of winning the 0-60 sprint. That said, this is a pretty amazing re-design... I have to be honest to say I'm a little bit tempted, but then I think about running gas and the cost of ownership and it's a hard pass.

 

[dc_h]

Can't tell if you are trolling. But,
1. The part of this equation that matters nearly the most that no article on traditional automakers seem to even realize matters is battery supply. A cheap, large volume battery supply has not even begun to be attempted by any of the Detroit big 3 afaik. So even if Rivian or Ford make a good truck, good luck getting it at both a good price with a good range or at volume, if they even achieve either.

2. No Automaker other than Tesla has yet to compete with the efficiency of the drivetrain of the 2013 Model 3, so it's unlikely Ford is going to suddenly make a decent electrical drivetrain.

3. Feel free to buy an expensive Electric Ford Truck without a self driving hardware suite. The depreciation on that is going to be impressive. Also given the fuel efficiency/aerodynamics of truck shaped objects good luck charging it on a road trip.

4. The reason Tesla is going after Trucks is because its a huge market. F and Tesla could both occupy the electric Truck market and do quite well. I still seriously doubt Ford will compete at volume in the market in the next 5 years.

If Tesla takes 10% of the truck market it would be a huge gain in sales for Tesla and a big loss for Ford. If they continue to drive down battery cost and increase performance the towing performance will sell the truck as fast as they can make them.

 

[Prunesquallor]

Can't tell if you are trolling. But,
1. The part of this equation that matters nearly the most that no article on traditional automakers seem to even realize matters is battery supply. A cheap, large volume battery supply has not even begun to be attempted by any of the Detroit big 3 afaik. So even if Rivian or Ford make a good truck, good luck getting it at both a good price with a good range or at volume, if they even achieve either.

2. No Automaker other than Tesla has yet to compete with the efficiency of the drivetrain of the 2013 Model 3, so it's unlikely Ford is going to suddenly make a decent electrical drivetrain.

3. Feel free to buy an expensive Electric Ford Truck without a self driving hardware suite. The depreciation on that is going to be impressive. Also given the fuel efficiency/aerodynamics of truck shaped objects good luck charging it on a road trip.

4. The reason Tesla is going after Trucks is because its a huge market. F and Tesla could both occupy the electric Truck market and do quite well. I still seriously doubt Ford will compete at volume in the market in the next 5 years.

Just to be clear, “Full disclosure: I'm short TSLA and long F.” was a quote from the author of the article.

 

[RobStark]

3) The 0-60 times will be much more variable than any Tesla and you will need luck and a lot of driver skill to even close to the published 0-60 time published by auto mags (which won't be 2.9 seconds).
4) It will guzzle gas like a drunken sailor in city traffic.

C8 won't offer a manual transmission. Just a DCT that can be shifted manually.

Any idiot should be able to repeat published numbers.

Car and Driver estimate 16 city 26 highway and 19 combined MPG.

1990 Toyota Camry with 2.5L V6 AT got 17 city 24 highway and 19 combined MPG.

 

[RobStark]

Dealer markups on these will be huge....

For about a year,

Then MSRP for about 2 years.

Then discounts.

 

[KSilver2000]

It is not my concern. I am perfectly happy with my 4.4s. Just wish that P could always beat a similarly priced gas car in a city traffic or on a track, no need to go over 1/4 mile.
It's a halo thing.

In what city traffic are you getting up to 60mph?

And what track do you race on? Many tracks have stretches longer than 1/4 mile.

 

[Unpilot]

Dealer markups on these will be huge.... And I agree, on the street a P3D will have a good chance of winning the 0-60 sprint. That said, this is a pretty amazing re-design... I have to be honest to say I'm a little bit tempted, but then I think about running gas and the cost of ownership and it's a hard pass.

Always liked Corvette's..... I have had several.
The new one looks sweet...but....once you go electric you don't go back.

I will NEVER buy an ICE car again.

 

[Words of HABIT]

Out of the blue I received an email today from a business associate that I met in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, six months ago and have not heard from since today. For those that don't know Winnipeg has a population of +-650,000, and Manitoba is larger in size than California or France and I've only seen one Tesla in the last half dozen times visiting there (although most all the taxis are Toyota Prius). There are currently no Supercharger Stations in all of Manitoba, although five are planned to open in 2019 including one in Winnipeg. If you ask anyone on the street what Tesla is, their most likely response would be a taco or something like that. Anyway, here's the email:

Dan
I’ve been considering a Tesla and may order one tonight or this weekend. If you have a Tesla referral code you want to send me, I will use yours.

My first referral. Woot! Woot!
"They will come Ray. They most definitely will come."<Field of Dreams>

 

[jerry33]

Millennial TSLA and Tesla owner here. Can confirm all of the above for the single data point that is me.

Remember that Millennials can be as old as.... 37. Anyone <21 is a different Generation.

Come on, I'm almost 1,000 years old, so I should qualify as a Millennial.

 

[KSilver2000]

Mark my words right now:

1) You will never be able to buy that car for $65K with the performance package.
2) It won't do 0-60 in 2.9 seconds under typical conditions
3) The 0-60 times will be much more variable than any Tesla and you will need luck and a lot of driver skill to even close to the published 0-60 time published by auto mags (which won't be 2.9 seconds).
4) It will guzzle gas like a drunken sailor in city traffic.
5) It will have a high cost of ownership due to lots of premium gas, oil and expensive maintenance.

Watch and see.

It does have a feature I like. In addition to the small rear trunk, that can hold a few groceries or a couple of small golf bags, it also has a frunk!

Sounds like someone with a lot of bias.

 

[PhaseWhite]

C8 won't offer a manual transmission. Just a DCT that can be shifted manually.

Any idiot should be able to repeat published numbers.

Car and Driver estimate 16 city 26 highway and 19 combined MPG.

1990 Toyota Camry with 2.5L V6 AT got 17 city 24 highway and 19 combined MPG.

It’s RWD and traction limited on regular streets. It will require a prepped drag track (sprayed with sticky traction enhancers) and luck to achieve the published 0-60 times...

 

[KSilver2000]

only reason the Performance Model 3 isn't already sub-3 seconds is to give Models S and X one BIG differentiator that the 3 doesn't have.

Whether that’s true or false with Tesla specifically, it’s what most, if not all, car brands do.

 

[Carl Raymond]

Since the question of advertizing pops up from time to time.

In Norway Coca Cola is running a campaign. Buy water and win a Tesla Model 3.

Smartwater Sommer

On the site if you click on test drive or "prøvekjør" you are redirected toTesla (look at the URL)

Prøvekjøring av Model 3

I have no idea who is paying for the car.

Looks like they are trying to greenwash their plastic wrapped water using Tesla’s halo.

 

[dhrivnak]

Always liked Corvette's..... I have had several.
The new one looks sweet...but....once you go electric you don't go back.

I will NEVER buy an ICE car again.

And to confirm I took my Roadster to the local race track and line up against 3 different Corvettes, a Shelby Mustang and BMW sport and watched them all in the rear view mirror.

 

[Esme Es Mejor]

Always liked Corvette's..... I have had several.
The new one looks sweet...but....once you go electric you don't go back.

I will NEVER buy an ICE car again.

The best thing about the design is that it moves them closer to an electric Corvette with a skateboard battery pack. If they were working with Tesla (I’m sure they’re not), they could have one on the market by 2021-22.

 

[keydiver]

In what city traffic are you getting up to 60mph? And what track do you race on? Many tracks have stretches longer than 1/4 mile.

Why in the world are we comparing a 2-seater sports car (which isn't even made yet) to a mass-produced EV, simply because of...PRICE? Just a futile exercise, IMO. As someone also said, 0-60 times aren't everything. Tesla has said that the Model S will always have the best performance, so if anything you should be comparing the new Vette, with the yet-to-be-priced track package, to it. But even that is ridiculous, as you can't load the family in that Vette, put it in Autopilot, and cruise quietly, and inexpensively, down the highway to Disney with all your luggage. You can't fuel the Vette at home. God help you if you try to drive it in the snow. Premium fuel in my area is 60 cents higher than regular, so just open your wallet and bend over. Cars like the new Vette, the Dodge Demon, Hellcat, Camaro ZR1, etc are all dinosaurs, but people just aren't realizing it yet, IMO. Maybe Iran needs to seize a few more ships to help it sink in. /rant

 

[CalX]

Why in the world are we comparing a 2-seater sports car (which isn't even made yet) to a mass-produced EV, simply because of...PRICE? Just a futile exercise, IMO. As someone also said, 0-60 times aren't everything. Tesla has said that the Model S will always have the best performance, so if anything you should be comparing the new Vette, with the yet-to-be-priced track package, to it. But even that is ridiculous, as you can't load the family in that Vette, put it in Autopilot, and cruise quietly, and inexpensively, down the highway to Disney with all your luggage. You can't fuel the Vette at home. God help you if you try to drive it in the snow. Premium fuel in my area is 60 cents higher than regular, so just open your wallet and bend over. Cars like the new Vette, the Dodge Demon, Hellcat, Camaro ZR1, etc are all dinosaurs, but people just aren't realizing it yet, IMO. Maybe Iran needs to seize a few more ships to help it sink in. /rant

We've all fallen to their marketing trap. I literally have seen nine or ten stories about this car on my SM pages and news aggregators. I wonder if they are targeting Tesla users.

 

[Electroman]

As someone also said, 0-60 times aren't everything.

Oh now you are saying !!

 

[Silent Ludicrosy]

A nail took out one of the Model S’s tires this week. I was at discount tire picking up the replacement in the Model 3 when I happened to see a black P3D leaving one of the bays. As I was watching the 3 drive away I hear one of the workers one the phone saying “a Tesla? Yes we stock tires for your car” Teslas are taking over Phoenix. Bullish AF.