Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Zero CO2]

Cluelessness confirmed! Learn to live with disappointment. Seriously, stick to mutual funds if this is the level of your understanding.


Hmm. My earliest purchase of AAPL was in 1983 if I remember right. So I guess I've been long AAPL for 36 years (well, not really, since I've been in and out, but continuously for the last 17 years). Worked there for eight years too, in this century. And I can assure you that very, very few people at Apple are thinking about making money, never mind it being the primary objective. It's supposed to just fall out of making awesome products.

no need to get nasty dude ... not sure why you are insisting i am clueless ... really not very roundtable like ...

how about we agree to disagree !

 

[sparcs]

Trying to find the dividend AMZN pay's.....they are a trillion dollar company...must be somewhere?

I plan on selling some shares of TSLA when it hits my sell point (2k or so would work) then give the rest to my kids and enjoy life.

Amazon is still in growth mode making investments and buying companies (just like Tesla). Look at Amazon 10 or 20 years from now and see what they do with their cash horde. Eventually dividends or share buy backs might be a part of their wheel house too. Google and Apple have that problem with over a $100 billion in cash that investors would love to get their hands on.

Even Tesla might end up with such an enormous cash pile where they believe their share price is cheap and buy back shares. It may only be a problem 20 or 30 years down the road though. Nobody knows with any certainty the timelines or success that Tesla will have.

 

[Zero CO2]

its crazy to suggest TSLA will never pay dividends. Elon may claim so now, he may even really believe it, but if he continues to feel like that in 15 years time he wont be CEO. The percentage of investment capital in TSLA that is investing altruistically without a desire for return is trivial. Even people saying "I'm just investing for capital growth" miss the point: The capital only grows BECAUSE there is an expectation of future revenue from dividends. A company is only the current value of future dividend payments. You may choose to wait and collect the dividends over 20 years+ or you may choose to sell to someone with a longer time-scale than you, and collect the capital growth, but make no mistake the only reason TSLA is worth >$0 is BECAUSE of futrue dividends.

I don't see how thats even debatable. How else is the company providing anything in return for your shareholder funds? its not like investors get free supercharging.

I dont care if I dont get my first TSLA dividend for 20 years, personally, but I am 100% convinced that if somehow it was made impossible for the company to ever pay dividends, its stock value would be zero. Thats... obvious?

ditto...the fundamental reason to invest and how you value a stock (DDM).... i am really surprised on how many disagrees and dislikes i got for suggesting TSLA dividends in the future... this is the TSLA investment thread

 

[Cosmacelf]

why not i said in the future .... 20 + years ago i did not expect MSFT, AAPL or ORCL to be dividend stocks but today i have a nice income stream from all 3 in addition to capital appreciation ... this is basically how a company becomes a grown up ... i am not suggesting that TSLA does not invest in capex/R&D heavily in the short run they should eventually be able to do both , but I am suggesting that a 16 year old company needs become profitable in order to better control its destiny

Dude, you held onto those mega growth companies until they started paying dividends?

I bow to you, I am not worthy...

 

[StealthP3D]

Trying to find the dividend AMZN pay's.....they are a trillion dollar company...must be somewhere?

I plan on selling some shares of TSLA when it hits my sell point (2k or so would work) then give the rest to my kids and enjoy life.

I would recommend NOT giving stuff to your kids. By the time they are adults, they should be self-sufficient and you have probably given them enough! Better to buy solar panels for your neighbor's roof in return for a portion of the electricity sold.

 

[dc_h]

As ggr said a few posts back, what about Berkshire Hathaway? They’ve never paid dividends, nor are ever likely to. The stock price reflects the value of the combined assets...

Berkshire is basically an insurance holding company that has used cash flow to acquire assets over the past 60 years. It is also run by a savant. Since that savant has aged and reduced his rule rare turns have returned to the mean. For the last five years they would have done better returning all cash flow to stockholders or paying a dividend. Berkshire certainly doesn’t buy other companies that don’t pay dividends either.
Not paying dividends and buying back stock is an artifact of the tax code. It has reduced public stock as a percent of the economy over the past 60 years and made capital formation less effective and more elitist.
Berkshire is an exception not a model.

 

[dc_h]

Inte

my long term is at least 10-20 years this a really long process ...this is where the analogies to AAPL really breakdown ... smartphones have a really short lifecycle compared to cars/energy so not sure why you would disagree except that i am from NYC which in that case it makes a lot of sense to disagree with me
all TSLA long holders will need to have a lot of patience..... but i believe we will be rewarded handsomely for that virtue

I tend to disagree with New Yorkers about everything except New Jersey and Philadelphia.

 

[KSilver2000]

cutting prices as they save on costs even though they could continue to sell at the higher prices.

No, just stop.

Very few were buying those performance trim S/X/3 at the original prices.

 

[elasalle]

Trump tariff threat pushes up chance for Fed rate cuts as recession risks rise

Pushing for more rate cuts before China deal ...

 

[Intl Professor]

I would expect anti-trust breakup before Tesla starts paying dividends. An easy target would be to separate SC network, energy and battery business, etc. Not something for investors to worry about. Usually you get shares in several companies and the aggregate price shoots up. Cf. breakup of the utility trusts under Roosevelt.

 

[Singuy]

I would recommend NOT giving stuff to your kids. By the time they are adults, they should be self-sufficient and you have probably given them enough! Better to buy solar panels for your neighbor's roof in return for a portion of the electricity sold.

Damn, harsh.

My parents gave me a full ride through health professional school, 100k down payment on my house, and probably 2 million after they pass. I am expecting to do the same for my children. Laziness and work ethics are taught through role models who lead by example. An inheritance is not going to destroy your children.

 

[Singuy]

Trump tariff threat pushes up chance for Fed rate cuts as recession risks rise

Pushing for more rate cuts before China deal ...

Rates are pretty freaken low already historically in conjunction with low corporate taxes. Don't understand what the big deal is with rate cuts giving wall street this kind of exuberance.

 

[bhzmark]

cutting prices as they save on costs even though they could continue to sell at the higher prices.

I don't think they could sell at the same volumes at those early higher prices. More likely the initial prices were either intentional or accidental price discrimination and yield management strategies: maybe the equilibrium, supply/demand price is where it is now. maybe they even accurately projected that before roll out (it doesn't matter if they did or not). But given high demand and limited supply during initial roll out, why shouldn't they try to maximize profits by selling for prices for which they will have sufficient takers?

If they used ind franchise dealers, those dealers would simply try to capture that profit -- why shouldn't Tesla do it instead? The mild complaints from people about lowering pricing is a small bad PR cost to pay for that additional margin from exploiting the early high demand and limited supply -- as they should. welcome to capitalism. Google "price discrimination" and "yield management".

 

[Unpilot]

Nice to see the different kinds of philosophy's about stocks.
I am a long....but by that I mean I do not day trade or swing trade. I buy and hold stocks that meet 3 criteria for me.

1. Is it a company who's product I own and I at least have a working knowledge of.
2. Do I believe the company has a large upside potential.
3. Is it a company I trust to at least try and improve me and my fellow earthling's lives.

Tesla meets all three for me. So I bought a large (for me) stake.

I plan on selling about half when the rest of the world wakes up and realizes the crazy upside potential.

Retire rich.

As far as leaving stock for my kids ...well I think my kids are wonderful and very grounded hard working people.
I am proud of them and feel no remorse in helping them.

 

[yttrasil]

Just to note to those of you that mention a company has to pay dividend to have any actual perceived value, this is wrong even theoretically. Do not forget about these 2 possible outcomes, merger&acquisition of that company. This would yield a sale of the stocks and a potential payout. Also buyouts by private actors give the same fate and a return of investment.

Hence, even if a company say they will not pay dividends there are these outcomes to contemplate as well, and they are quite common in some cases and also a potential investment alley that some people pursue when buying stocks.

However, to note i don't think any one company will buy out e.g Amazon anytime soon (not cheap), let's hope the same reason for that will hold true for Tesla in the future

 

[Carl Raymond]

Just to note to those of you that mention a company has to pay dividend to have any actual perceived value, this is wrong even theoretically. Do not forget about these 2 possible outcomes, merger&acquisition of that company. This would yield a sale of the stocks and a potential payout. Also buyouts by private actors give the same fate and a return of investment.

Hence, even if a company say they will not pay dividends there are these outcomes to contemplate as well, and they are quite common in some cases and also a potential investment alley that some people pursue when buying stocks.

However, to note i don't think any one company will buy out e.g Amazon anytime soon (not cheap), let's hope the same reason for that will hold true for Tesla in the future

So it pays dividends to own stocks, even if they don’t pay dividends?

 

[StealthP3D]

Damn, harsh.

My parents gave me a full ride through health professional school, 100k down payment on my house, and probably 2 million after they pass. I am expecting to do the same for my children. Laziness and work ethics are taught through role models who lead by example. An inheritance is not going to destroy your children.

Wow. I got a good upbringing and $35K when they passed.

 

[KarenRei]

I'm starting to think that Model 3 packs simply cannot be burned.

テスカス on Twitter

I mean, any car can have an upholstery fire or whatnot. But if the pack doesn't ignite from damage like this, what does it take?

 

[powertoold]

Incredible design. Model 3 is probably the most well-designed car ever.

 

[SpaceCash]

we shall see what happens in the next recession... i have not heard statements like this since the dotcom bubble days... i don't think Tesla is like many of those failed companies from the early 2000's ... however, I invest to make money and at some point in the future I would like to see Tesla transition from a growth stock to a dividend stock .... if it happens to help the planet that is an additional bonus

I WOULD like to see it become a dividend stock, but just for one quarter, to force a short squeeze