NIO Inc. Cancels Second Quarter 2019 Earnings Conference Call | NIO Inc.
NIO cancels earnings call, I didn’t know that is even an option...
NIO cancels earnings call, I didn’t know that is even an option...
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Etna
Member
That was not too well received: -19% in extended hours after yesterday's -10% drop.
HG Wells
Martian Embassy
TO: Boss Short
Boss, Boss, how can we make NIO's problem Tesla's problem ?
How about this headline.
HEADLINE: Shortsville Times
First EV maker going bankrupt. Tesla soon to follow.
Sincerely
Chief Editor
Shortsville Times
Tesla of China is in deep trouble...
China’s Tesla is in deep trouble...
We need to find new ways to make it sound like Tesla is in deep trouble in China...
bhtooefr
Active Member
You have to release a report, you don't have to have a call.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Then you're not paying attention to what he writes. For example, just yesterday:
carsonight | 12 hours ago
"I've been told 10k batteries per week is the goal by year's end. That would be 7k per week for Fremont and 3k per week for China. I don't know how realistic this goal is or what the challenges are, because I only know a handful of employees out of 7000."
"I've been told 10k batteries per week is the goal by year's end. That would be 7k per week for Fremont and 3k per week for China. I don't know how realistic this goal is or what the challenges are, because I only know a handful of employees out of 7000."
Overall, I get the impression he's of the opinion that those cells will go to GF3 as part of completed packs, until demand for packs increases at Fremont with the start of Model Y production.
I suppose its possible GF1 will send some completed packs (at least for initial production at GF3), but remember that Tesla has already sent the retired batttery pack building equipment from GF1 (now that the new Grohman machine is online), so it is quite obvious Tesla intends to assemble packs locally at GF3 soon, and will likely switch to locally sourced bty cells as soon as feasible to reduce logistics costs.
Then of course, I think Tesla is right now literally laying the foundations for a new battery cell production plant on site at GF3/Shanghai: (from the Sep 21 video)
Notice the 220kV Substation at the top-right (white building), and a pylon for the new structure being driven into the earth left-centre of the frame, just above the red banner reading "battery workshop".
Cheers!
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1. I am sure that Tesla has had Dr Dahn's group validate both Samsung and LG's cells, so they know exactly what energy density and lifespan to expect from them, so they can compensate if necessary.
2. I really doubt they have given either of those companies their latest, secret recipe. That recipe, IMO, is one of Tesla's biggest competitive advantages, so I am sure they are keeping it to themselves, especially with so much industrial espionage/theft of trade secrets lately. They would basically be handing VW, GM, and anyone else using LG cells their biggest advantage.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Jeff Dahn's group does almost nothing on manufacturing. They typically buy coin-cell components from China and assemble them with different electrode for testing, which is what they do for Tesla.
Manufacturing research will be Telsa Maxwell, and the newly formed unit in Colorado.
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Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
NIO down 20% in the pre-Market:
Market Summary > Nio Inc - ADR
NYSE: NIO
2.72 USD 0.00 (0.00%)
Closed: Sep. 24, 9:13 a.m. EDT
Pre-market 2.19 −0.53 (-19.49%)
NYSE: NIO
2.72 USD 0.00 (0.00%)
Closed: Sep. 24, 9:13 a.m. EDT
Pre-market 2.19 −0.53 (-19.49%)
This suggests, it belongs to Panasonic.
I know, I said what Tesla has been developing behind the scenes, not Dahn. Both Dahn's group and Maxwell are only components of Tesla's broader battery R&D effort. Tesla have had an in-house cell R&D team for over 10 years, well before any partnership with Dahn or Maxwell.
Chickenlittle
Banned
I have seen it happen three times in other companies over past 10 years (I am sure even more often). All bad outcomes. What happened overnight to make that occur? It’s a signal that company future severely in doubt
Tesla and Panasonic co-developed the chemistry.
Also the GF1 NCA cathode powder is mostly made by Sumitomo and LG's suppliers may not have the ability to manufacture to this specification.
It's been clear since July delivery numbers that Nio would need a miracle or a bailout to survive. A bailout is still possible, but not much time left now.
Cash reduced $600m to $500m in Q2. Despite the new $200m new convert issued to its CEO/founder & Tencent, cash balance today must be far below $500m.
Q2 Gross margin negative 33%. September delivery guidance very weak again.
I really don't see how they turn this around. Some of their tech and IP and battery pack/motor manufacturing assets are valuable, but you would imagine it will be much cheaper for any potential acquirer to buy all of this out of bankruptcy rather than takeover a company with $2bn annualised negative cash flow.
Nio tried to run before it could walk. And its CEO spent more time lying about Tesla than working on his product.
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StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
It looks to me like Nio wasn't a Tesla killer but Tesla had a pivotal role in Nio's difficulty. Only the best will remain standing in this game.
Make no mistake, the world is going electric (and it's happening sooner than expected by most), it's just a matter of who will be successful in churning out in record numbers the EV's that people actually want to buy. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns into a volume game in the end and one company so dominates that the others will be rendered irrelevant. Musk was smart to realize that it doesn't really cost much more to make really nice cars, it just takes better thinking.
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"So really, it seems like Porsche is cool with Elon’s tweets since it gives their car more exposure, but they’re not cool with getting beaten by Tesla if that Tesla is an actual production car and not a one-off. For now, it seems, Porsche’s focusing on launching the Taycan.
But when Tesla launches plaid mode in the Model S (it’s expected to enter production in about a year), if that car outdoes the Taycan, you can expect a response from Stuttgart, though I have no clue what that response will be. All I know is that the prospect of an electric sports car engineering showdown between Porsche and Tesla is one of the most exciting things I can even imagine."
https://jalopnik.com/porsche-on-tesla-nurburgring-rivalry-and-elon-musk-tha-1838331439
But when Tesla launches plaid mode in the Model S (it’s expected to enter production in about a year), if that car outdoes the Taycan, you can expect a response from Stuttgart, though I have no clue what that response will be. All I know is that the prospect of an electric sports car engineering showdown between Porsche and Tesla is one of the most exciting things I can even imagine."
https://jalopnik.com/porsche-on-tesla-nurburgring-rivalry-and-elon-musk-tha-1838331439
JusRelax
Active Member
Do you have data? "co-development" doesn't tell anything, nice word to cover things.
When Panasonic talks about it, doesn't mention Tesla:
Panasonic plans to develop cobalt-free car batteries
"“We have already cut down cobalt usage substantially,” Kenji Tamura, who is in charge of Panasonic’s automotive battery business, said at a meeting with analysts."
Even if they co-own the recipe, hard to share it with another battery supplier.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Well, shortzes are using NIO newz to hammer TSLA at the opening (NASDAQ-100 up 0.54% atm, TSLA dn 0.91%).
NIO isn't a manufacturing company. They hire factories to produce their designs in a similar way that Apple uses Foxconn to produce iPhones. Totally different business model than Tesla.
Hopefully some deep pockets recognize this gifted buying opportunity, and this early MMD is soundly routed.
EDIT: Nope, the sale continues (dn 2.4% as of 10:00 EST)
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