Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[elasalle]

David Tamberrino and Adam Jonas are tools. Elon knows how to deal with it. Tamberrino is out. I guess Jonas will stop covering Tesla. Someone else from MS will start to cover Tesla, the excuse will be Tesla is not a car company.

Jonas already called in Sick on last call. Next CC, he will be a Goner ...

 

[Mike Smith]

Tesla Shanghai Gigafactory and China-made Model 3: Summary

 

[Unpilot]

What a nice week it was. Thanks to all you fine folks for talking about...well everything.
I am pretty sure that next week will be even better.

Peace.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Indeed, MaxPain for TSLA options expiring today based on yesterday’s closing open interest is $320 according to Opricot: Opricot Open Interest|Volume|Max Pain

However, a cursory study of today’s options activity indicates that $335 may now be a more lucrative target for market makers and particularly hedge funds that wrote (sold to open) options expiring today. Trading volume is light. If it remains that way, the manipulators may be able to channel the closing share price to $335. Of course, anything in the meantime could upset their plans.

Lol, 83K open Put contracts at the $50 strike for next Friday, 11-15-2019

 

[Curt Renz]

Lol, 83K open Put contracts at the $50 strike for next Friday, 11-15-2019

View attachment 474633

That put buyer(s) was likely one of those who bought into the TSLA at zero before end of 2019 thesis. Of course, if TSLA does go to zero by next Friday, his $8 million investment will be worth $400 million. It will be interesting to see if he reveals himself next weekend, and explains to the investment community how he made or lost so much money.

On the other hand, the below linked article is from Schaeffer's Investment Research this afternoon. Publisher Bernie Schaeffer (not the article's author) was a regular guest of mine on my TV show, and keeps me on his comp list.

Link: Tesla Call Traders Target Deep Out-of-the-Money Strikes

 

[SteveG3]

Title of this article is not accurate (technically changes made to ratings for most, but, not all versions), but, inside are all the details via screenshots of the official EPA ratings,

For 2020, All Tesla Model 3 Versions Get New EPA Ratings

Main thing I noticed as new is that the Performance 3 with 18" wheels does in fact get the 322 mile EPA rating that showed up on the website for the non P dual motor a week or two ago.

Tesla now breaks out range for the P by wheel size,

18" 322 miles
19" 304 miles
20" 299 miles

 

[Swampgator]

Maybe not anymore. Some danish scientists have put cows on a diet and removed 99% of their methane output.

But now, Professor Mette Olaf Nielsen from the University of Aarhus University's Department of Animal Science, in collaboration with research colleagues from the Department of Veterinary and Animal Science at the University of Copenhagen, has found a substance that seems to almost completely stop methane formation in cows when feed is added to the animals.

- When we tested that lab we saw virtually no methane formation. It was reduced by 99 percent or so, largely eliminating methane production, she says.
​

Source in Norwegian:
Nå finner forskere nytt våpen i kampen mot metanutslipp fra kyr

Hopefully they take this off thread. You guys do not understand the big picture. Agriculture is like 4% of emissions, The largest ruminant emitter in the US for example is the white tailed deer.
You got lots to learn. Lets take this discussion elsewhere. Plenty of great reasons for people to buy TSLA that have nothing to do with the CAGW/Vegan agenda.

 

[TradingInvest]

At the risk of making myself sound arrogant, I just realized all the shorts have some sort of mental problems. That makes it very difficult for them to recognize what they are missing. Watch their interviews/posts/actions and make your own judgement.

Mark Spiegel
Bob Lutz
David Einhorn
Steve Eisman
John Thompson
Jim Chanos
Whitney Tilson
Fahmi Quadir
Robert Chapman
And a lot of shorts I follow on various websites.

In addition to all the strange thought process they exhibit, non of them understand the following concepts:

The importance of statistics
Design and quality can continue to improve
Charging at night in a garage takes 5 seconds not 5 hours
Copying a production line is much easier than designing the first one
Scale reduces cost
Competition will have a hard time because they are way behind in many areas
Making air quality better helps everyone, not just EV owners
......
And they sign up to a block list so they won't hear any arguments from the other side.

 

[SteveG3]

At the risk of making myself sound arrogant, I just realized all the shorts have some sort of mental problems. That makes it very difficult for them to recognize what they are missing. Watch their interviews/posts/actions and make your own judgement.

Mark Spiegel
Bob Lutz
David Einhorn
Steve Eisman
John Thompson
Jim Chanos
Whitney Tilson
Fahmi Quadir
Robert Chapman
And a lot of shorts I follow on various websites.

In addition to all the strange thought process they exhibit, non of them understand the following concepts:

The importance of statistics
Design and quality can continue to improve
Charging at night in a garage takes 5 seconds not 5 hours
Copying a production line is much easier than designing the first one
Scale reduces cost
Competition will have a hard time because they are way behind in many areas
Making air quality better helps everyone, not just EV owners
......

fwiw, Knicks fans who repeatedly and emphatically screamed "Jordan sucks" at Madison Square Garden throughout the Bulls '90s heyday, did actually know how extraordinarily strong Michael's skills were.

not suggesting this applies to literally every Tesla detractor with a big platform... just most of them.

 

[Remus]

Electrek - last evening: Tesla Roadster 2 die cast 1:18 model goes on sale, look at that hatchback - Electrek

Oh my God that will be my late life crisis car...

 

[Sudre]

Round 3
View attachment 474588

Elon doesn’t need to respond to any of this with real answers.

First someone needs to show me a single AUTO MANUFACTURE in the United States that has ANY car sales to the public for a proper comparison. I can certainly tell you right now GM, FORD and the rest do not have any cars sales to the public and it reflects in their low company valuation. I guess since it is now relevant (for losses sake) there are a few hedge funds that need to adjust their valuation of TSLA to reflect all the now profiting dealerships (we call them stores) that the other auto manufactures do NOT have as assets...... one of the small reasons Tesla is valued higher than others.

As far as assembled lines go.... maybe someone can point out a single auto manufacturer that is pumping out around 400,000 battery packs a year. Anyone? I only hear crickets. Heck these other car companies can not even touch the EV output Tesla has. The UAW is in panic mode over Tesla’s automation worried that their companies are going to adopt Elon’s automation and dump the workers. No need to show anyone Tesla’s factory floor until the incumbents can at least catch up on the EV front.

Side note to how oblivious shorts are... no cars are made in Buffalo. Why would he want to tour that factory because they are only valuing Tesla as a car company with no consideration for solar and energy. You would think he would want to tour Fremont. That would be the place to compare auto manufacturing.... you know.... at the EV manufacturing plant not the solar manufacturing plant. But hey. Now that it is recognized that solar is also something Tesla does it might be time for these hedge funds to up that valuation again. Don’t tell them about the battery factory.

If I was part of a hedge fund that did not know how to read a financial statement and needed the companies to spell it out for them, I would pull all my money out immediately. I imagine Tesla IR ignores them because talking slowly to children that don’t understand is time consuming and Tesla has a world to get switched over to EVs. No need to waste time on hedge funds that have no clue.

With my last sentence, Elon should do the same..... not waste his time on a hedge fund that has no clue. Give us results in Q4 and those hedge funds go away on their own. I am wondering if he is yanking tails to get them to double down so he can pull the rug out from under them.

 

[woodisgood]

If Einhorn has any sense, he should make the letter short and sincere, use this opportunity to learn a lot from Musk and the tour. If I were Elon, I wouldn't treat him nicely based on his letter. He has a lot to lose from shorting Tesla, it's not a time to be arrogant and waste the opportunity. Elon knows the stock will go a lot higher, many fold higher. He is just trying to help out a short (ultimately to reduce drag and noise on Tesla going forward). But this short is too arrogant to understand the situation.

I found the whole Wall Street is pretty arrogant and stupid. They think they are creating value. In reality they are just a bunch of blood sucking parasites sucking blood from the society.

Farmers grow food; teachers teach students; doctors treat patients; Costco helps to distribute products with a small profit; Tesla builds nice products and making the world a better place...

Blood sucking is fine, because the society has set up to treat that as a legal activity. But suck quietly. Einhorn is comparing his stuff with what Tesla is doing, unbelievable.

Marry me.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

From Buffalo News of all outlets.....Tesla plant is worth 8% of what New York paid to build it, auditors say

 

[tti_7]

My favorite part of today's video from Jason Yang showing the full plan of Giga Shanghai.

 

[keydiver]

Round 3
View attachment 474588

His "can we start in Buffalo" remark reveals the true source of his hatred for Tesla: its all about losing his *ss when Tesla bailed out Solar City. As others have pointed out before, many of the shorts just rolled over their hatred onto Tesla, and Elon personally. His message drips with so much sarcasm that I find it revolting.

 

[dc_h]

I used our on board compressor and plug kit to 'fix' both of our Model X flats on the road here in very, very rural Idaho. But one of the flats had such a large puncture hole in it from the basalt rock they use on the roads here in the winter that I had to use a couple plugs and still needed to stop every few miles to keep adding air just to get to town to get it patched (we live 50 miles from town). We intend to use our Tesla pickup for expedition RV trips........loaded up and off the grid, and we intend to use it for heavy hauling as a work truck too. I have patched and repaired tires 50 miles off the road system in Alaska and all over remote wilderness areas in the Lower 48 states on the many 4 wheel drive vehicles I have owned. And I have had enough tires damaged along the way that needed to be patched or replaced instead - especially in my F350's when hauling construction materials, that there will always be a spare tire with us where we travel.

Did you take your spare tire off your Jeep to save space and weight since it is a 'waste'? The 35" spare and two 5 gallon jerry jugs are still on the back of my Jeep even though I run top of the line 35" Toyos on my Jeep. There will be a spare tire on our Tesla pickup even if I have to fabricate the first Tesla Pickup spare tire bracket myself.

Maybe a frunk tire spare will be an option.

 

[kbM3]

Title of this article is not accurate (technically changes made to ratings for most, but, not all versions), but, inside are all the details via screenshots of the official EPA ratings,

For 2020, All Tesla Model 3 Versions Get New EPA Ratings

Main thing I noticed as new is that the Performance 3 with 18" wheels does in fact get the 322 mile EPA rating that showed up on the website for the non P dual motor a week or two ago.

Tesla now breaks out range for the P by wheel size,

18" 322 miles
19" 304 miles
20" 299 miles

Strangely 3P with 18’s is more efficient than AWD. I assume AWD’s quoted range/efficiency is an average for both wheel types.

 

[Doggydogworld]

The second comeback is to argue that if you include indirect, broadly granted policies such as industry wide tax policies as "Tesla subsidies", then it's only fair to include the indirect subsidies on the fossil fuel industry side as well, which the IMF has estimated to be 5 trillion dollars globally and 650 billion dollars in the U.S. alone, per year:

US Subsidizes Fossil Fuels To The Tune Of $4.6, $27.4, Or $649 Billion Annually, Depending On Source | CleanTechnica​

That's somewhere around ~$20,000 of lifetime subsidies to ICE car customers per new car, and that doesn't even include the receipts for global warming damage, death and destruction, much of which is yet to come ...

The 649 billion does include health and global warming externalities. That's why it's 649 billion instead of 4.6 or 27.4 billion.

Pump taxes alone generate close to 100b/year in the US, so it's idiotic to talk of financial subsidies for oil. Percentage depletion and whatever are not even rounding errors compared to all the taxes (pump, severance, income, etc.). The environmental issue is the only issue. Unfortunately there is no accepted dollar figure for externalities. And you'll never win an argument by quoting the IMF's ~$100/ton because your opponent will simply quote a much lower price (or $0) from a different source. Endless arguing, zero convincing.

Elon has it right. Transition requires green solutions that are better in some ways, more or less equal in the rest for roughly the same price. Going on about "fossil subsidies" does more harm than good.

 

[ggr]

From Buffalo News of all outlets.....Tesla plant is worth 8% of what New York paid to build it, auditors say

Historically naïve. The plant was built for Silevo before it was acquired by Solar City before Solar City was bought by Tesla. So saying it was "custom built for Tesla" is sort of misleading. Silevo was already effectively bankrupt (with an "r"), at which point the factory was effectively worthless. The chain of takeovers has actually increased its value to the state.

 

[SteveG3]

Strangely 3P with 18’s is more efficient than AWD. I assume AWD’s quoted range/efficiency is an average for both wheel types.

Interesting catch. AWD non P shows the same total range, 322 miles, as the 18" P, but, that performance version shows better city, highway and combined mpge numbers by 3-4 miles for each category.

I don't know... just hope my 18" P delivered this summer gets all or most of this increased range via software update.