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Although ostensibly only ten employees will be affected -- and they will be offered relocation to Detroit or Phoenix -- the reality is that businesses like Waymo rely on contractors exactly for situations like this: they can cut them loose without the repercussions of employees and don't even have to disclose how many are getting axed.
They apparently had 70-100 contractors, down from 200+ a year ago.
I find it interesting that the Waymo spokesperson tried to spin it as "we're not downsizing, we're consolidating" but the writer wasn't having any of it. Waymo's "expansion" in Detroit and Phoenix wouldn't require closing Austin and relocating employees if they had money. The budget belt is clearly tightening.
They only need a certain number of remote support staff, and their delayed rollout means they need fewer than planned.

Austin is good area for engineering - lots of local grads with lower costs and more employee loyalty than the Bay Area. It's too costly for a call center, though. Waymo stopped R&D testing in Austin some time ago, leaving only a high cost remote ops center.
If Waymo was actually close to offering a true robotaxi they would not be shuttering operations in a major urban center.
You're reading too much into this. Austin is the 30th largest metro area in the US and only #4 in Texas. It's not one of Waymo's top 10 rollout targets and probably not in their top 20.
Compare this to Tesla's approach where FSD is beta-tested as driver assistance.
Tesla has a vastly superior business model. Getting 100k people to donate half a billion and provide free alpha testing while accepting full liability is an amazing accomplishment. But we'll see if regulators accept Tesla's ... umm, informal approach to safety.
So while Waymo may be able to convince regulators in Phoenix, or some place in California, or Florida (which is trying to attract robotaxis) I think they will have to sweat for it, and will lack data to support moving into additional markets.
What will a random city prefer - a few million accident-free miles without drivers in Phoenix or billions of self-audited miles with untrained drivers and accident rates higher than other late-model luxury cars?
As an aside, I also noticed Waymo's recent insistence that they were going to remove the safety driver. What they didn't make clear is that they employ remote monitoring for remote driving.
Yes, remote monitors are a big hit with nervous regulators. I expect most jurisdictions will require them for robotaxis.

Here's the thing - Waymo needs the robotaxi model to work and they need to beat others to market. Tesla doesn't really care - selling 100% margin FSD to a few hundred thousand car buyers per year is better than slugging it out in the robotaxi market, which may not even develop as predicted. Even without going driverless, Tesla will add features like crazy the next 12 months. If that motivates 125k extra people to spend 8k extra on average that's a billion of incremental cash flow to Tesla and ~1.5b of incremental GAAP net income.
 
Public hearings set for impeachment inquiry next week. This might impact the stock market for near term.

I do think removing the problem will help the market. But I don't think it will be as quick as people would like. But who knows, maybe the market will respond positively just from the possibility of it. ;)

It's very difficult to predict how this type of thing will affect the market. In my experience, right when everything seems like doom and gloom is when the market will take off unexpectedly. Or, when everything seems peachy, everything will tank. Or, it might seem like the market has been too good for far too long and it must correct. Then, after a tiny correction, it will zoom higher than you could possibly imagine it could. Future market sentiment is a funny thing. That, coupled with the fact that I believe we are in the largest and longest bull market the world has ever seen thanks to technological innovation, and no thanks to the guy who takes credit, is why I stay long and try to ignore the short-term noise. I need a really good reason to get spooked out and that has served me well. Some day I will sell all or most suddenly but the soonest I see myself doing that is sometime next year (and probably not even then).
 
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You're reading too much into this. Austin is the 30th largest metro area in the US and only #4 in Texas. It's not one of Waymo's top 10 rollout targets and probably not in their top 20.
Sort of. Austin is probably in the top three for worst traffic--at the very least it's in the top five. So the slowness of the traffic reduces the chance for self driving accidents (at least major ones).
 
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Just to illustrate my frustration with the financial media:

Tesla’s Elon Musk reignites feud with Greenlight Capital’s David Einhorn

Musk did not reignite anything, he merely responded to Einhorn's lies.

Sigh. If he had said nothing they might've warmed over a story from last year about how Elon was a dangerously unhinged drug user. The only thing that surprised me is that the market watch stupidity was not penned by Claudia Assis. Maybe she's busy with the aforementioned "Elon is crazy" article...
Basically, the market doesn't expect CEOs to respond to that kind of criticism of their companies. They expect (at most) the PR team to issue a response. It is not just CEOs, this applies to politicians as well.

It is strictly "hierarchical". A CEO would respond if a person of "equal status" accuses them. A politician would respond if someone of equal status accuses them. If Tim Cook says something, they expect Musk to respond. If a VP at Apple says something about Tesla, they expect a VP at Tesla to respond. Welcome to our "classless" society's norms.
 
It occurred to me that we can estimate Tesla's auto production rate directly from the international shipments data we've been tracking.

Please see Franco Mossotto's twitter feed for links to their data: Franco Mossotto (@FMossotto) | Twitter

Compared to previous quarters, the rate of shipments during Q4 is incredibly regular, measured as vehicle loading days per week. It's almost as if the cars are rolling right off the production line and into the RoRo ships. Viewed in this way, the shipment rate gives an idea of the vehicle production rate. Its interesting to look at the progression from Q2-Q4. Shipments are at a steadier rate and the rate has been increasing. Maybe this tells us something about whats going on in the factory. Here I'm focusing on Q2, Q3, Q4, because Q1 production and delivery was a bit of a mess with it being the beginning of international deliveries.

Anyway - According to Franco's Google Docs spreadsheet, Tesla has been spent 30.3 of the first 38 days of Q4 loading ships, which translates to 20 hours a day. With an estimated 1500 cars loaded per 24 hours that is 1200 cars per day loaded on average. That means that Tesla is probably producing about 8,400 cars per week. This assumes 100% of their production is going overseas. This projects to a minimum production rate of 101,000 cars in Q4 just for international deliveries. Any production going to US customers during this period would only increase this rate. I think this proves beyond any doubt that I have too much time on my hands.

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Tesla doesn't really care - selling 100% margin FSD to a few hundred thousand car buyers per year is better than slugging it out in the robotaxi market, which may not even develop as predicted.
Tesla definitely cares. That 1.5B extra FSD revenue pales in comparison to what is possible in a half successful robotaxi operation. Moreover - someone else getting a robotaxi operation going could dampen then FSD sales.
 
Everyone likes to purchase goods produced in their own country--if they are worth purchasing.
That depends. In some societies imports have more "status". So, people with more money want to buy imports - but is usually a niche (otherwise the status gets diluted). Even in Japan some want to buy RHD imports, for eg. But that's just niche.

Ofcourse in China even a niche can be quite big. Tesla has to balance between appealing for people looking for status vs people wanting to buy a good car.
 
Anyway - According to Franco's Google Docs spreadsheet, Tesla has been spent 30.3 of the first 38 days of Q4 loading ships, which translates to 20 hours a day. With an estimated 1500 cars loaded per 24 hours that is 1200 cars per day loaded on average. That means that Tesla is probably producing about 8,400 cars per week. This assumes 100% of their production is going overseas. This projects to a minimum production rate of 101,000 cars in Q4 just for international deliveries. Any production going to US customers during this period would only increase this rate. I think this proves beyond any doubt that I have too much time on my hands.
First of all - we should calculate - working days. Not clock time. A ship that docks at 6 AM and leaves at 6 PM, loads exactly the same number of cars as something that docks at 6 PM on day 1 and leaves at 8 AM on day 3.

Also we don't know the rate with much accuracy. Somewhere between 1000 and 1500 a working day is likely. If you take the average of 1250, that 8,400/day reduces to ?

I think this proves beyond any doubt that I have too much time on my hands.
No. If you re-do the math … then, may be ;)
 
Shorting is fine. But shorting is very difficult to make money either for overvaluation or for fraud.

Short and destroy is generally easy and quick, so the short community evolved into this approach. This approach is illegal but usually very difficult to catch.
I would disagree that it is difficult to catch. Everybody here can see it plain as day. In fact, anybody that looks at the MSM and their willingness to give these shorts a voice, and a very loud one at that can see it happening. The problem is a lack of any conviction whatsoever to prosecute.

Dan
 
First of all - we should calculate - working days. Not clock time. A ship that docks at 6 AM and leaves at 6 PM, loads exactly the same number of cars as something that docks at 6 PM on day 1 and leaves at 8 AM on day 3.

Also we don't know the rate with much accuracy. Somewhere between 1000 and 1500 a working day is likely. If you take the average of 1250, that 8,400/day reduces to ?


No. If you re-do the math … then, may be ;)
I don’t know who is doing it, but someone is measuring the vehicle loading days to the hour. Check the google docs spreadsheet.

The estimate of 1500 cars loaded per day was derived from deliveries to Europe.

it’s obviously highly speculative!
 
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What will a random city prefer - a few million accident-free miles without drivers in Phoenix or billions of self-audited miles with untrained drivers and accident rates higher than other late-model luxury cars?

Why would you claim Tesla accident rates are worse than BMW/Mercedes etc?

It is not even possible for other luxury manufacturers to track their accident rates so the data you are claiming just doesn't exist.

It seems highly improbable though. Taking Tesla's Q3 reported one crash per 2.7 million miles for cars without Autopilot but with Autopilot's free safety features, Tesla cars crash c.10x less regularly than the US average (that is 2.7 million miles divided by NHTSA's reported market average one crash per 498k miles multiplied by NHTSA's reported 1.8 cars on average per crash). The real numbers are even larger - likely one crash per 150k miles per car in the US after accounting for non reporting of minor accidents (for insurance reasons) which are still detected by Tesla's software. This puts Teslas currently at 18x less crashes per mile. You are saying other luxury cars do better than that? Using what superior technology exactly?
 
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Note the completed shape of the "battery workshop" in that render, in the top right corner. If battery packs are made there then they'd be carried over just to the end of the body shop to be "mated".
In the Oct 31 GF3 drone video, we got another clue as to how battery packs will be transferred from the bty workshop to the main factory building.

Notice the elevated track/conveyor frame (in white) under construction in this detail taken of the SW corner of the bty workshop:

bty pack transport conveyor.2019-10-31.SE-corner.jpg
 
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Chinese people obviously do not agree when it comes to most made in China products.

For instance, people who choose BMW or Mercedes will most definitely go for imported ones if they can afford the steeper price.

From the ones I know. There are the ultrarich asian kids who buys everything imported as status symbol. These ppl are a dime a dozen where I live. They also get their education abroad. They are supposed to be rare, but China has so many ppl that it feels like these are your average Chinese.

Then you get the normal elite chinese who grow up in China only, doesn't live in tier one city so can't travel freely and is part of the recent boom. They make more money than the average americans, is a lot more loyal to Chinese brands and pragmatic enough to avoid getting ripped off by "imported" status. All the while owing a million dollar condo in China because 2 generation of wealth and 6 ppl's productivity funnels down to one child.

This is a much bigger matket.
 
I'd like to make a post about the kind of short Chanos is. I see him mentioned at lot here, and often in a very negative way, so I'd like to share my perspective as someone who likes the kind of investing he does.

If anyone has access to an hedge fund database and could provide actual perfomance numbers for his three funds - short only, long short, 190/90 - that'd make things more clear/interesting. Unfortunately I don't have that kind of access.

I realize this post is kind of misorganized; sorry. But I think it's helpful to understand what actually happens at a fund like his. I think this is the reason it's unlikely there's any sort of short conspiracy to make the stock go down. Very few people are as concentrated as someone like Spiegel, which manages a very very small fund.

Many already know what Chanos' business model is, but some don't - not the least because promoting your hedge fund to the general public is actually illegal.

Kynikos main product is a short only fund, that typically doesn't really make any money. Making money is not actually the purpose of this fund. The purpose of this fund is to not make money while being short. This short only fund typically has a max position of 2-3% per stock. What this means is that tesla going up or down by even 30% like it has recently occurred is not actually a big deal for a fund like this. That's less than 1% up or down for the whole short portfolio.

Making no money being short only is actually a lofty goal when you consider that picking 20 stocks by throwing darts at a list and equal weighting them, you will probably do about as well as the benchmark. If you were to do that as a short seller, you'd have made -20% in 2017, -12% in 2016, -23% 2019 YTD... the list goes on.

The product that is actually designed to make money is, like many other hedge funds, a 190/90 long/short fund. That means, roughly, that if you give chanos $1M, he will short $900K worth of stuff, and go long $1.9M worth of stuff. This product is actually 100% net long, like a typical mutual fund might be - but it has 280% gross leverage. The $1.9M worth of long stuff is usually just the US market; something like just buying $1.9M worth of SPY. The short book is the aforementioned short only fund.

You can't just go long the market with a 2x leverage, because events like the great financial crisis or the dotcom bubble are going to potentially wipe your fund completely. It doesn't matter how well you do in the rest of your investing career if you have a -90% year.

But if you have a short book, what happens with events like the great financial crisis? Well, you lose a ton of money on your long side, but you also make a ton of money on your short side. You might actually have your short book perform better than just shorting the market during these periods - after all, if your short book is about breakeven when everything else goes up, when everything else goes down your short book is probably going to perform very, very well. While you're exposed about 2x to the general trend of equities going up, you're still losing around the same amount of money (or less) during these events where equities go sharply down.

Finally, what would happen if 100% of Chanos' short book was Tesla (remember, Tesla is actually a small portion of that portfolio), and as we said he was 1.9x long SPY?

View attachment 474848

He'd still be doing just slightly less well than holding the market. (For what is worth, the same backtest started from 2016 has him about breakeven, but again it's not representative of his actual short book).

I hope this kind of post is OK and cleared up some confusion.
Insanely obfuscatory and absolutely ridiculous
 
In the Oct 31 GF3 drone video, we got another clue as to how battery packs will be transferred from the bty workshop to the main factory building.

Notice the elevated track/conveyor frame (in white) under construction in this detail taken of the SW corner of the bty workshop:

View attachment 474991

That elevated metal structure is not extending in the direction of the main factory building.
 
...of self-audited miles with untrained drivers and accident rates higher than other late-model luxury cars?

Yes, remote monitors are a big hit with nervous regulators. I expect most jurisdictions will require them for robotaxis.

Here's the thing - Waymo needs the robotaxi model to work and they need to beat others to market. Tesla doesn't really care - selling 100% margin FSD to a few hundred thousand car buyers per year is better than slugging it out in the robotaxi market, which may not even develop as predicted. Even without going driverless, Tesla will add features like crazy the next 12 months. If that motivates 125k extra people to spend 8k extra on average that's a billion of incremental cash flow to Tesla and ~1.5b of incremental GAAP net income.

I’d like to reiterate ReflexFund’s question. What evidence do you have Tesla’s accident rate is higher? This is a MAJOR claim!

Why would you claim Tesla accident rates are worse than BMW/Mercedes etc?

It is not even possible for other luxury manufacturers to track their accident rates so the data you are claiming just doesn't exist.

It seems highly improbable though. Taking Tesla's Q3 reported one crash per 2.7 million miles for cars without Autopilit but with Autopilot's free safety features, Tesla cars crash c.10x less regularly (that is 2.7 million miles divided by NHTSA's reported market average one crash per 498k miles multiplied by NHTSA's reported 1.8 cars on average per crash). The real numbers are even larger - likely one crash per 150k miles per car in the US after accounting for non reporting of minor accidents (for insurance reasons) which are still detected by Tesla's software. This puts Teslas currently at 18x less crashes per mile. You are saying other luxury cars do better than that? Using what superior technology exactly?
 
The oil industry is getting really nervous about the advent of EV's

Lower Mainland gas price dip of 15 cents in 48 hours 'unprecedented,' says analyst

From article
Philip Verleger, a Colorado-based energy industry economist, says shifting world markets may drive the cost of gasoline even lower.

He says a flood of crude oil is now hitting world markets because of fears that environmental concerns and the rise of electric vehicles could limit oil sales in the future

"The oil industry right now is under attack from environmentalists and, given global warming, there is a huge uncertainty in the industry as to how much oil will be consumed five years from now or ten years from now," he said.

He described oil companies and refineries as "nervous."

Verleger said oil producing countries — from Saudi Arabia to Brazil — are working hard to sell the oil to refineries as environmental concerns dominate political agendas and threaten the future of the oil industry.

"The scene is changing so rapidly that all these guys [oil producers] are very nervous. Everybody in the business understands that a lot of the oil reserves will never get produced," said Verleger.
 
I don’t know who is doing it, but someone is measuring the vehicle loading days to the hour. Check the google docs spreadsheet.

The estimate of 1500 cars loaded per day was derived from deliveries to Europe.

it’s obviously highly speculative!
I've been looking at that spreadsheet for a long time. There is a lot of discussions on loading rate, when does the loading take place etc. if you search.

The spreadsheet calculates elapsed time - not loading days - though on the whole usually it comes to roughly the same thing.
 
In the Oct 31 GF3 drone video, we got another clue as to how battery packs will be transferred from the bty workshop to the main factory building.

Notice the elevated track/conveyor frame (in white) under construction in this detail taken of the SW corner of the bty workshop:

View attachment 474991
I believe @KarenRei said this was a frame to carry piping. There were pipes lined up around it.