Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Knightshade]

I find it funny that people otherwise don't believe a word Elon says hold on to this tweet religiously, way to be consistent guys...

For starters, he said "my commitment", not Tesla's commitment. And he's also allowed to change his mind, in fact he does this all the time, you can call it a "pivot" in startup jargon.

I mean, not as funny as the mental gymnastics people will do to pretend what Elon said is some 69d chess thing instead of just accepting the literal meaning of his words.


He said that in direct follow up to a tweet about Teslas legal team not his personal one.

And in that direct follow-up he said we not I will never surrender/settle an unjust case against us.


Therefore the only sane conclusion here is if Tesla settles a case against them, it was a just case.


Unless, as you suggest, he "changed his mind" with no word about it, and suddenly he's settling unjust cases... because.... why again?

If BYD was top notch, they would be opening showrooms in US and not Brazil
(before the recently announced tariffs that is). cheers!!

BYD straight up told us a while ago they weren't entering the US consumer EV market (they're already in the commercial one here) specifically because it was too complicated.... could be they already knew the tariff stuff was coming (or likely enough anyway it wasn't worth the risk).

 

[spacerfc]

I mean, not as funny as the mental gymnastics people will do to pretend what Elon said is some 69d chess thing instead of just accepting the literal meaning of his words.


He said that in direct follow up to a tweet about Teslas legal team not his personal one.

And in that direct follow-up he said we not I will never surrender/settle an unjust case against us.


Therefore the only sane conclusion here is if Tesla settles a case against them, it was a just case.

No, that's not the only sane conclusion at all. It's his personal commitment which could be related to Tesla, but it's still not Tesla's commitment. This doesn't need 69d chess to understand, it's just basic reading comprehension.

However that's hardly the point, doesn't take a genius to figure out the real issue here is naysayers cherry picking which Elon's tweet to believe.

Unless, as you suggest, he "changed his mind" with no word about it, and suddenly he's settling unjust cases... because.... why again?

Many reasons. Lack of resources for example, they have many cases to fight and a limited number of lawyers, makes sense to focus resources on more important cases. And it's a delicate time for Tesla, they may not want to risk a loss in court, even if the probability is low, especially if settlement is cheap. Also he used to have faith in US legal system, but the comp package ruling changes things, this would affect his legal strategy for obvious reasons.

 

[Näky]

One should not believe everything that's found from internet. Even if source is "trustworthy " like head of the state (POTUS, Putin etc.) , business leader (Elon, Barra) or "journalist" (Lora, Fred). Even if person who gives information believes it to be the truth (or reasonable presentation of the truth) at the time when information is provided.

And then the third person interpolate from information provaided and keeps their view of it as the real truth.

Elon was(is still?) building "hardcore" litigation team, if teams current status is "softcore", then they cannot do hc things. Just like mostly everything in Tesla, things take time to accomplish.

 

[kelly]

I think it should be perceived that way given Elon told us Tesla will never settle an unjust case.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1527749734668050433

I think it is possible that Tesla is trying to avoid jury trials. They have already been the victim of one runaway jury and now that Elon is much more vocal about his politics, the likelihood of at least a few jurors hating him on any given jury could be a problem.

Just speculation of course. It is also possible that Tesla is telling the plaintiffs, "We have won every one of these cases and we will win this one too. However, if you want a nominal amount, we will agree to settle." Thus Tesla avoids a jury trial and settles for a nominal amount.

And Knightshade, I know this contradicts what Elon said in 2022. But things have changed since then.

Again, without knowing the details of these settlements, this is all speculation.

 

[heltok]

China exports growing very fast:

 

[spacerfc]

Nice Tesla related origin story:

a16z-backed ZeroMark wants to give soldiers guns that don't miss against drones | TechCrunch

The product, which ZeroMark calls a “fire control system,” has two components: a small computer that has sensors, like lidar and electro-optical, and a motorized buttstock.

techcrunch.com

Anderson, who enlisted in the U.S. Navy fresh out of high school, eventually joined private industry and ended up as MongoDB’s first CISO and CIO. He says he realized there was an opportunity to increase the capabilities of the dismounted soldier after driving his Full Self-Driving-enabled Tesla to a shooting range and realizing there was no analogous automation for marksmanship like there is for driving.

“It was insane to me that I’ve never seen as much technology as in a simple consumer car as I ever saw with the Navy or across the DOD, especially for dismounted soldiers,” he said. “I realized there’s this big opportunity for technology for soldiers to help give them an advantage that just doesn’t exist.”

 

[spacerfc]

Inside EV startup Fisker’s collapse: how the company crumbled under its founders' whims | TechCrunch

Insiders tell TechCrunch the story of how the flashy EV startup went from making big promises to struggling to survive.

techcrunch.com

People underestimate how hard it is to get a competent founder/CEO, especially for a company in startup mode which needs a fine balance between order and chaos.

 

[jamaatta]

Weekend OT, kind of.

A music video shot (and performed) in Model Y driving through Toronto(?). Ren - Troubles (acoustic).

 

[SPadival]

squircle is not really the main point..

Since it’s the weekend:

I was on the lookout for this for some time now and AliExpress did not disappoint.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMcd5kS

 

[MartinAustin]

My wife and I both voted our shares this morning according to board recommendations

 

[Knightshade]

No, that's not the only sane conclusion at all. It's his personal commitment which could be related to Tesla, but it's still not Tesla's commitment.

He literally posted it attached to a call for people to apply for the tesla legal team my dude.

Then uses we not I in the sentence about settling.

Trying to claim the commitment has nothing to do with Tesla is.... not a sound reading of anything he wrote. Not remotely.

This doesn't need 69d chess to understand, it's just basic reading comprehension.

Agreed. You're falling short presently however.

However that's hardly the point, doesn't take a genius to figure out the real issue here is naysayers cherry picking which Elon's tweet to believe.

How is that the 'real issue'? (or even applicable here at all? tweets about when L5 are speculative, nobody's done that- they're fancy guesses---one should expect those dates to be missed-- But "this is the definitive legal policy going forward" is specific, concrete, and doesn't require inventing new technology to make happen- so have a lot more basis to believe they're accurate from the original claim)

Maybe they settled these two cases because they were just

You know- like Elon said they would.

Is that even a possibility in your mind?

Or do you think any possible lawsuit against Tesla is unjust by definition and so you simply MUST come up with whacky theories to deny the simple reading of Elons words?

Many reasons. Lack of resources for example

Tesla has 25-30 billion dollars in the bank... Far more resources than when Elon made the commitment, so that's an hilariously straw-graspy "example"

And it's a delicate time for Tesla

When has it not been?

That was the same reason given for the SEC settlement- at a time when Tesla genuinely was in a much more delicate time- And Elon made the commitment NOT to settle unjust cases after that--- In part, because of that-- he having multiple times stated Tesla felt forced into that settlement and never wanting to do that again.

Also he used to have faith in US legal system, but the comp package ruling changes things, this would affect his legal strategy for obvious reasons.

The comp package was in a very specific Delaware business court.

The two recent cases Tesla settled were in normal courts in other states.

If he thinks the ENTIRE US legal system is corrupt, not just DE, why would he be moving the company from one state to another in the same country with inferior tax treatment?

 

[sunwarriors]

Another lawsuit, I thought execs normally have regular set time/filings to sell?:

Tesla investor accuses Elon Musk of insider trading that banked him $7.5 billion​

MSN

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

He literally posted it attached to a call for people to apply for the tesla legal team my dude.

Then uses we not I in the sentence about settling.

Trying to claim the commitment has nothing to do with Tesla is.... not a sound reading of anything he wrote. Not remotely.





Agreed. You're falling short presently however.







How is that the 'real issue'? (or even applicable here at all? tweets about when L5 are speculative, nobody's done that- they're fancy guesses---one should expect those dates to be missed-- But "this is the definitive legal policy going forward" is specific, concrete, and doesn't require inventing new technology to make happen- so have a lot more basis to believe they're accurate from the original claim)

Maybe they settled these two cases because they were just

You know- like Elon said they would.

Is that even a possibility in your mind?

Or do you think any possible lawsuit against Tesla is unjust by definition and so you simply MUST come up with whacky theories to deny the simple reading of Elons words?




Tesla has 25-30 billion dollars in the bank... Far more resources than when Elon made the commitment, so that's an hilariously straw-graspy "example"



When has it not been?

That was the same reason given for the SEC settlement- at a time when Tesla genuinely was in a much more delicate time- And Elon made the commitment NOT to settle unjust cases after that--- In part, because of that-- he having multiple times stated Tesla felt forced into that settlement and never wanting to do that again.




The comp package was in a very specific Delaware business court.

The two recent cases Tesla settled were in normal courts in other states.

If he thinks the ENTIRE US legal system is corrupt, not just DE, why would he be moving the company from one state to another in the same country with inferior tax treatment?

I’ve read Elon does a lot of drugs. He probably just tweets random weird things that sound good while high.

 

[Linkmeup]

Superb article on Tesla's home charging setup and some stats:

The Complete Guide To Tesla's Home Charger

Tesla owners and non-Tesla owners alike rejoice! Here's what you need Tesla's home-charging network.

www.topspeed.com

 

[Linkmeup]

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2024-us-oem-ev-app-report

I think there's a tremendous opportunity in the mobile app once Robotaxi is real and Tesla has a widely adopted app in the broader public. Further, the app is probably going to create growth/cross-sell opportunities for all other Tesla ecosystem purchases once their mobile app userbase gets accustomed to the functionality available outside of just Robotaxi rides.

 

[Leftlane22]

The basic problem is that Musk just feels very comfortable flat out lying. It is no surprise why Trump and he seem to be aligning and supporting eachother - neither has any grasp on reality and don’t seem to think that anyone will actually fact check, remember what they said, or have a knowledge of the truth. What a weird time in our country.

 

[CorneliusXX]

The basic problem is that Musk just feels very comfortable flat out lying. It is no surprise why Trump and he seem to be aligning and supporting eachother - neither has any grasp on reality and don’t seem to think that anyone will actually fact check, remember what they said, or have a knowledge of the truth. What a weird time in our country.

Booooooöoooooo

 

[unk45]

Yeah, I didn't even get into that, Model 3 saved me so many times from stupid stuff due to being on vacation and looking everywhere paying less attention on the road than I should


Sure, the Dolphin Mini is R$116k ($22k), the cheapest new ICE you can get is a Fiat Mobi at R$73k ($14k), there is a few other at close price point but all similar

The Seal is R$297k ($56k), cheapest new Model 3 I can find is R$459k ($87K), with a used 2019 with 8k miles for R$300k ($57k)

For a while we had no taxes on EV imports, but now it's back and currently at 18%, and will reach 35% in 2026, way to incentivize the industry, when adoption barely began cranak the taxes again

These price make me mad/sad, because the dream of having a Tesla here is quite far away. @unk45 can probably say with more certain since I couldn't find details, but there is some free trade agreement between Brazil and México, so we might get whatever Tesla makes there with no taxes, and $25k here would be pretty competitive and a hit

OK, here it is, the 2022 version:

Brazil Mexico Auto Trade Agreement: Legal Insights and Updates – Network Sabil

Because of the content rules it will be quite easy for some serious innovation. Some examples:

Brazilian built BYD busses can be exported to Mexico, while the presently developing Mexico and Brazil factories for a number of Chinese manufacturers can trade between these two countries. Although not a part of the auto pact the very fast developing relationships between both countries and China facilitate renewable energy projects in BESS, solar panels and all types of grid services.


The relevance of all this to Tesla is not quite so obvious, but...Tesla did just begin exporting cars from China to Chile. Tesla, if moving quickly in Monterrey, can tap into that entire set of arrangements. Tesla clearly knows about all this. What si not clear is how much the new perspective of Tesla is interested in advancing both Tesla Energy and Tesla automotive in Mexico and the bulk fo South American markets.

As it is the entire region, plus Mexico, is being courted by major Chinese companies with great effectiveness. That includes State Grid and Huawei with large scale industrial/utility services. BYD, Jinko, Longi, CATL and many others are rapidly gaining popular support and distribution strength.

That story is being repeated in many other places. Tesla is nearing irrelevance in all of South America and Africa, which they could resolve with serious attention. As it is Tesla is rapidly becoming a North America, Europe and China company. That could certainly be all they need.

Perhaps I am myopic, being faced with Huawei and BYD with wholly integrated residential and commercial energy solutions, many others offering excellent automotive options, building factories and distribution power while Tesla is...absent and not responding to any calls from eager customers.

As I regularly have repeated I had a reservation for a Model 3 for Brazil delivery in April 2016. I finally gave up and canceled.

 

[EQC_]

I’ve read Elon does a lot of drugs. He probably just tweets random weird things that sound good while high.

I have a vague memory of somebody tweeting or saying that Elon mostly tweets on the toilet and, "official communication channel" or not, his tweets should be viewed as such. I also have a vague memory of Elon agreeing with that.


....some quick googling confirms, November 21, 2021:

"At least 50% of my tweets were made on a porcelain throne"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1462652210739884035

 

[unk45]

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2024-us-oem-ev-app-report

View attachment 1052585

I think there's a tremendous opportunity in the mobile app once Robotaxi is real and Tesla has a widely adopted app in the broader public. Further, the app is probably going to create growth/cross-sell opportunities for all other Tesla ecosystem purchases once their mobile app userbase gets accustomed to the functionality available outside of just Robotaxi rides.

As a regular user of two of those plus Tesla I think the Tesla lead is far, far greater than is shown here. Nothing even approaches the capacity of the Tesla app. Further, it has been so since my first use of my 2014 Model S app to allow remote use of my car when the service center lost the fob, so I solved their access while in an airport lounge headed out of Rio de Janeiro. I suspect they did not actually use those apps in order to rank them.