Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[traxila]

TMC has been great over the years.

But all good things come to an end.

I can’t imagine why any forum would ever want to chase away posters like KarenRei and Fact Checking. They are the best of us. Were they perfect? No. Irreplaceable? Probably.

Very sad, the information I would get here simply isn’t available elsewhere.

 

[StealthP3D]

Companies are partially valued on revenue growth. pumping out millions of cheaper vehicles is really the only way that Tesla can keep its automotive CAGR above 50% 5+ years out when they have saturated the higher priced vehicle segments.

I was under the mistaken assumption that you were advocating a sooner entry into the lower end EV market than Tesla's "world car". I have no problem with the timeline Tesla is currently on, I was simply saying I didn't believe that a smaller, cheaper car should be forced to market sooner. Now is not the time.

 

[abouttime]

She may not see your request.
Nafnlaus (@enn_nafnlaus) | Twitter
Can't help with Fact Checker, wish I could, believe me.
Karen is/was a member at:
Tesla Owners Online

I contacted her on Twitter. Will post here if anything new.
(I apologize for being off-topic, but at least this way we can all stay connected until all things are sorted out here)

 

[TNEVol]

Could Karen and FC have their own sticky thread in the investment forum and be given the authority to moderate it? I would likely choose it first to review, then skin over the main thread before finally reading jhm's oil thread

 

[Fred42]

I want to read any post that @KarenRei and @Fact Checking care to write (and I liked @Iklundin's as well) but without moderation this thread and TMC will become a morass of useless posts and posters. TMC needs responsible moderators.

 

[H Mak]

I only joined this forum a week ago and two of the three main reasons i joined were @KarenRei and @Fact Checking. The third being @Artful Dodger . This is easily the best Tesla investment forum I have ever come across, down largely to the contributions of those three posters. So I'll be taking a break until common sense prevails.

 

[dww12]

I'd rather trust @Fact Checking and @KarenRei than some mods to decide what content is relevant to TSLA investing, thank you very much.

I don’t know what was said or posted because I was working in an attic yesterday but @Fact Checking and @KarenRei are my #1 and #2 for trusted informative posts. COVID-19 is the #1 factor for any investment today, period. Nothing else matters. Either you are buying because you think it is overblown and ending soon or you think everyone is going bankrupt. Anything informative one way or the other IS relevant in this thread because it will move TSLA more than deliveries, batteries, new factories or factory shut downs.

 

[gtrplyr1]

FWIW, My brother, who has been leasing a X just got his performance model 3 delivered yesterday. It was a "touchless" delivery and the car was dropped off in his driveway. He's owned a few expensive luxury cars before getting his Tesla X and after getting the X he said no other car he ever owned could touch it! Now, he tells me he likes his Performance model 3 even more than the X.

I realize there is so much going on in the world right now that reviews of a new car such as the model Y are very low on most people's priorities but we will all get through this, and when we do I'm really anxious to see how the Y will be received, although I already have a pretty good guess!

Cheers to the longs .....

 

[UncaNed]

It really is a shame this has gotten out of hand and I would hate to see someone like @KarenRei who writes a lot of highly informative posts, leave this forum. Or @Fact Checking. And it shouldn’t have to happen.

I wasn’t directly involved, but I know what happened. It is not up to me to disperse details, explanations and motivations. But what I can say in general is that moderating this forum, and especially this thread can be a hugely frustrating task. It is difficult to find a balance between keeping it informative and entertaining on the one hand and readable and manageable on the other hand.

With more and more posters joining us (the S curve, brought to you by Tesla) the more and more people have something to say. And if that were all informative that would be great. But unfortunately it is not. Too many people have the tendency to go down the rabbit hole with technical details on a wide range of subjects, many not related to Tesla. It’s meant well, but it produces an avalanche of difficult posts which others have to weed through. Others believe they missed out on a career of being a stand up comedian, so decide to start that career here by serial posting funny or not so funny remarks. Ofcourse this thread needs some entertaining elements too - it shouldn’t be all boring and informative - but if unchecked it would get completely out of hand. And then there’s the people who think this is a chatroom where they can post the most trivial stuff that really nobody but themselves is interested in.

That is why moderating is necessary, why mods have to keep the thread on track. They issue guidance (which has to be repeated constantly, as memories seem to last just one day here), delete and move excessive posts, and create dedicated threads for OT stuff and for subjects that threaten to take over the main thread. Without it there would be, instead of 4-5 pages, 20-30 pages to sift through in the morning or after having been offline for a few hours. All informative posts that help us with our investing would be drowned out and almost impossible to find.

And yes, the coronavirus is extremely important to Tesla and to investing. And yes, important developments deserve a place in the main thread! But the problem is that a lot of people then start posting trivial stuff about the subject too, which causes posts like these take over the Tesla investing thread: ‘Germany not exporting masks’, ‘A doctor’s tale from Italy’, ‘This university claims it can start vaccine trials in 2 months’ time’, ‘Here’s how you can make your own mask out of a ketchup bottle’ and ‘I can no longer go to my favourite pub’.

All of it - well, most of it - very informative, but too far detached from Tesla and investing. Which is why the coronavirus thread was created. And I get it why people feel the need of posting about the virus in the main thread, and sometimes it does belong there. But it immediately results in replies and discussions that do not belong there. And before you know it things get out of hand. Let it go unchecked and it becomes a nightmare, where all really valuable posts get swamped. Which is why mods have to be strict.

Finding the right tone in moderating is difficult, especially when directives are constantly being ignored and the (voluntary) task becomes frustrating. We are all human too. I know it can also be frustrating to be asked or, after several requests, be warned to stop posting OT stuff (and trust me, the most appreciated posters get a lot more leeway). Or when posts get moved or deleted. But you need to swallow that pride, for the greater good of the thread. Neroden couldn’t. I hope that others can. Because their posts are highly appreciated. Their presence is badly needed.

Having said that: I’ve decided to take a step back from moderating. If I happen to stumble upon a troll I will vape him. But I will no longer delete or move posts that are OT or belong somewhere else. On one hand it is for personal reasons (40% of the turnover of my company is in Italy and it’s all hands on deck to solve issues with postal deliveries), but more important is that I find the task too frustrating, as the decisions I make are always wrong for 50% of posters. It’s not worth it. I hope the other mods, who I know share the same frustration, don’t throw the towel or soon this thread will become a zoo.

Stay healthy.

...and with that, the volume of posts grows so large nobody could possibly read them all anyway. I'd prefer a little more moderator deletion or something.

 

[oldTAVguy]

Proprietary platform.
You can probably find the same data here DataGrapple

can you a least provide a summary / consolidation of the information that does not violate the proprietary information? Just assertions are mostly of little value. What is the name of this Proprietary Platform?

 

[tinm]

I am saddened to hear about @KarenRei and @Fact Checking.

Just so people know, the mods have been hassling and threatening me for a while. Some of them strike me as tyrants, infuriated over little things and, for example, swiftly “disappearing” me for 10 days recently for posting some silly thing off topic and then my daring to question them about it. Then just a couple days ago one mod PMed me opening up a conversation with 5 mods like a tribunal or something, most of whom kept silent, threatening me with what sounded like permanent banishment because I simply clicked Disagree on one of this mod’s red-text posts in here.

The mods deserve our gratitude for volunteering to keep order on this sprawling passionate forum. But some, not all, of these mods are angry, capricious, and unfair, and all hide behind anonymity, and if TMC, Inc. is listening, you should know the threats and tyrannical behavior I’ve experienced are the SOLE reasons I haven’t become a paying, sustaining member here. Normally I would’ve proudly done that years ago.

All of this is fixable, and I’ve offered to have real phone conversations with the mods but strangely nobody ever takes me up on the offer. We have some work to do as a community to fix the Terms of Service and also to create a Terms of Service for Mods, with community-agreed-upon policies and open, transparent rules and fair and reasonable penalties for violating the rules rather than the secretive anonymous totalitarian abusive way things are done now.

If you don’t see me around anymore after posting this, you’ll know I’ve been banished. If you don’t even see this post, well, they got rid of the evidence too.

 

[Chunky Jr.]

Maybe there should be a separate open thread for anything that is remotely related to Tesla where people can post things that may be considered off topic here but useful to the Tesla community at large.

Personally, I like the humor, and various off topic posts. I don't like trolls, or prolonged discussions that go into the weeds on subjects that are off topic and should be taken elsewhere.

C-19 is obviously having a huge impact on Tesla, so I find discussions about it useful as insight about when things might return to normal impacts my Tesla investment.

 

[davecolene0606]

Very disappointed for the loss of very relevant info. Really hope there is reconsideration on both sides. The need for factual information re Tesla, the market and subjects affecting the market and hence TSLA are few and far between and both Karen and Fact Checking contributed with the highest levels of integrity.

Perhaps the collateral stress of world events illicited a response that would not have occurred under different circumstances.

I would ask that appropriate conciliatory actions be taken to reverse what has occurred so we can all get back to our investment in TSLA

Respectfully

Dave

 

[Cobos]

I am saddened to hear about @KarenRei and @Fact Checking.

Just so people know, the mods have been hassling and threatening me for a while. Some of them strike me as tyrants, infuriated over little things and, for example, swiftly “disappearing” me for 10 days recently for posting some silly thing off topic and then my daring to question them about it. Then just a couple days ago one mod PMed me opening up a conversation with 5 mods like a tribunal or something, most of whom kept silent, threatening me with what sounded like permanent banishment because I simply clicked Disagree on one of this mod’s red-text posts in here.

The mods deserve our gratitude for volunteering to keep order on this sprawling passionate forum. But some, not all, of these mods are angry, capricious, and unfair, and all hide behind anonymity, and if TMC, Inc. is listening, you should know the threats and tyrannical behavior I’ve experienced are the SOLE reasons I haven’t become a paying, sustaining member here. Normally I would’ve proudly done that years ago.

All of this is fixable, and I’ve offered to have real phone conversations with the mods but strangely nobody ever takes me up on the offer. We have some work to do as a community to fix the Terms of Service and also to create a Terms of Service for Mods, with community-agreed-upon policies and open, transparent rules and fair and reasonable penalties for violating the rules rather than the secretive anonymous totalitarian abusive way things are done now.

If you don’t see me around anymore after posting this, you’ll know I’ve been banished. If you don’t even see this post, well, they got rid of the evidence too.

As a very infrequent poster but one of the early members here, I've seen quite a bit (look at my join date...).
I really liked Neroden though he did have a bit of mercurial temper and was saddened when he was banned. Though I can see how he was a problem for the mods and how that ended.
I also know that the invester forum and especially this thread is a bit of a handfull, many hundreds of posts a day is a bit much. At the same time there is big a difference between my posts and KarenRei's and FactCheccking's posts. Mine aren't that bad, but theirs are mostly great. And they are very good at sparking interesting and thought provoking debates. Yes someone might answer in a way that pulls us too far off topic, but mostly it does get us forward in analysing and discussion the current issue.
So yes I do support the mods and their tireless effort to clean up this thread, but I do think they lately has been tipping over to the side of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The fact that two moderators more or less resigned in protest tells me I might be on to something. Hopefully we can resolve this and get both KR and FC back as well as well functioning moderation.
And if the cases Tinm and pezpunk is posting is right there seems to be a problem the moderators has to handle.

 

[Rarity]

So the POTUS is now cheering for the Car makers to build ventilators.

Donald J. Trump on Twitter

To be clear, it appears that FEMA will be contracting Ford, GM, and Tesla for ventilators and other materials. This is money in the door for Tesla, probably even before delivery, so I welcome it.

 

[Prunesquallor]

To be clear, it appears that FEMA will be contracting Ford, GM, and Tesla for ventilators and other materials. This is money in the door for Tesla, probably even before delivery, so I welcome it.

Well, THIS could make for an interesting little competition.

 

[X Fan]

FWIW: these are extraordinarily stressful times with health, wealth & jobs at risk with fear underlying all.

We will get past this one day (don’t forget the 1918 flu pandemic did ultimately burn itself out) so let’s not give up hope.

I’d suggest that we all think about how we post and eliminate the bombs/personal/political attacks.

Wishing the best to everyone on this site that essentially is a family that loves what EVs/TESLA can do for the world.

 

[ZeApelido]

Don't *sugar* on the mods. They donate their time to do a relatively thankless job.

If you'd be so much better at it why don't you become a mod.

Don't *sugar* on the mods. They donate their time to do a relatively thankless job.

If you'd be so much better at it why don't you become a mod.

The mods do a great job of moderating content following a set of rules.

That doesn't mean they should be the ones defining the rules. You know like separation of power and all that.

FC and KR shouldn't be moderators, their time is better meant for making informative posts. I am saying they seem better suited for defining the content rules.

IMO, COVID posts should be allowed as long as they explicitly show a direct link to possible effect on TSLA.

Posts that don't and are obviously not close can be dealt with as they are now. Posts that are really informative but not clear on TSLA effect can be allowed to be updated by poster to include this connection.

Otherwise talking about TSLA losing 2/3 of price without the reason why is silly!

 

[EV Promoter]

The relevancy of what sells today is of limited value simply because tomorrow is a different day. Look around. Do you honestly think when this current global crisis is over that we won’t be changed?

Being in lockdown in my flat in Italy since the 8th of march, a country that is a bit anticipating the story, i can totally relate to the feeling of "nothing will be the same".
IMHO so many things will be different when the crisis will be over (sort of), that we will be surprised.
Let alone what cars people will prefer and what kind of money they will be ready to put in it. Let's see what is going to happen.

 

[Bouboule]

I am not sure if this has been suggested before and I don't know if it is actually technically feasible, but I have a suggestion:

Could we limit the number of posts per day based on the posters rating?

For example:
5 star poster = 5 posts/day
1 star poster = 1 post/day

Everyone starts at 1 post/day, and as their credibility increases they get a bigger voice on the forum.

The most popular\informative\entertaining will have more posts.
The least popular\less informative\ less entertaining will have fewer posts.

But everyone WILL have a voice and I think that is what is most important. Even the trolls are important as they force us to double check our assumptions.

By limiting the number of posts, I think we can drastically increase the value of each post, regardless of the view. Forums become pointless, if we stop discussing our different opinions.

I think moderators are trying to maintain the quality of the forum, but it must be a very difficult manual task.

We need to find a solution to make it work long-term and not lose our moderators too.