Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Buckminster]

Okay, I hear you. But let me ask you: have you been in a model 3? The reason I ask is that I have quite long legs and I still don't run the model 3 all the way back. My wife isn't short (and has nice long legs herself) but sits much closer to the wheel. Before getting the model 3 this was actually a problem when switching out driving because I'd have to get in sideways and run the seat back before I could even turn to sit forward.

In other words, for most drivers there would be more space behind the driver's seat than when I'm in it. And in my case it isn't even all of the way back.

So Musk suggesting that a model S is what they should be looking at for more interior space is, I think, perfectly acceptable.

Maybe, after we have S3XY + truck + semi at full production rates, they might look into adding more variations, but that is definitely down the road.

I would think the MY will have slightly less legroom than M3 if anything. This is normal when you sit upright. In addition, they have 3 rows to squeeze in on a platform that is based on the M3.

 

[Toolsmack]

For access for the long distance 150kW chargers: 17.95 euros/mo + 8 euros / charging session + 0.33 euros /kWh.

They are providing their own shovel to dig a hole in the #teslakillercemetary. How thoughtful of them

 

[Joe F]

The main difference for long wheelbase is the leg room for the back seats. Admittedly not everyone need that or like it (less sporty), but it appeal to Chinese families.

Why? WADR, what's the average height of who might be seated in the back seat?

 

[adaptabl]

I would think the MY will have slightly less legroom than M3 if anything. This is normal when you sit upright. In addition, they have 3 rows to squeeze in on a platform that is based on the M3.

Might not be 3 row. 2 row would give more room leg room than the 3

 

[MP3Mike]

For access for the long distance 150kW chargers: 17.95 euros/mo + 8 euros / charging session + 0.33 euros /kWh.

Nope, no per kWh charge. (Fred is wrong.)

And for the first year for e-tron owners the monthly Basic Fee (17.95) is free.

So just a flat 8 euros per session. So if you do a 80% charge that would be about 0.11 euro per kWh.

 

[KarenRei]

As far as I can tell this is only pricing for in Germany: Audi e-tron Charging Service Goes On-Grid

City tariff* Transit tariff*
Basic fee €4.95/month €17.95/month
AC charging (up to 22 kW) €7.95/charging process €7.95/charging process
DC charging (up to 50 kW) €9.95/charging process €9.95/charging process
IONITY HPC (up to 150 kW) No offer Introductory price: €8.00/charging process; Special price: €0.33/kWh

* Prices valid for the German market; minimum term: 12 months. Due to the applicable legal calibration regulations, only session prices in Germany are currently possible.

That's expensive. E-Tron in moderate speed summer driving / slow winter driving goes about 330km (NOT Autobahn speeds) on 95kWh. Can't wait to see the "non-introductory" / "non-special pricing" for the 150kW charging The introductory pricing using the per-kWh cost makes that about €0.10/km, which for Americans works out to around $0,20/mi. Not counting the monthly fees.

 

[sundaymorning]

Communications is poor, I agree. However I don't think that is the root cause of the customer frustrations with service. The root cause is that Tesla simply doesn't have an actual parts system for service - it's totally ad-hoc. Nobody can communicate with you because they don't know when (perhaps even if) they will get the parts needed to fix your car. Telling you that multiple times does not "manage your expectations" in a positive way, so they don't say anything.

If parts were available, most of the problem situations would go away because your car would get fixed quickly. How pissed could you be that you didn't get an update email and a message about what time you must pickup before they close? At least your car is actually fixed! Compare that to now when you either get passed along to someone else (who also has no answers) or are told some almost certainly false made up answer or get no response at all.

Communications will matter a whole lot less when the work actually gets done. Also most communications will automatically improve because the answers to customer questions become (much more often) known instead of unknown.

I'm currently living a (trivial) service absurdity: at delivery of my wife's model 3 (1 year ago this coming Monday) we noticed cracked and gouged plastic inside the charge port. It was the only thing on the due bill. It's purely a cosmetic issue and only visible when the charge port door is open. I've contacted my local service center (also where delivery took place) 4 times about this and each time they look it up, see in the system that it is on the due bill, that the part has been ordered but no expected date for the part. Each time they have no idea what's up but say they will investigate and get back to me. They've never got back to me. Twice this was in person with someone who I know and has followed up promptly on other issues (for my S) where parts were actually available (e.g. getting a mirror skull cap and having it painted to match) so I really don't think it's a lack of customer communications that they never get back to me.

I assume it's because the service center can't get the part and nobody at Tesla knows when, if, or how it will ever happen. I think that is the root problem and it's one that Elon said they are going to fix.

I agree, storing parts will likely alleviate more than half of the communications issue we’ve been hearing about. Give it a couple quarters and we should see this part of Tesla service improve. Many of the small mom and pops mechanic shops around my area carries zero parts in their inventory, what helps them out is that a parts wholeseller is located in the area, providing them with needed parts if needed within 45 minutes. For this reason the street my mechanic is located on also has 40-60 other mom and pops mechanic shops operating within a 3 mile radius. It’s quite efficient and I’m sure Tesla can figure out a way to store needed parts within its facilities.

 

[GregRF]

Why? WADR, what's the average height of who might be seated in the back seat?

People buying in China are not necessarily buying it to drive, but to be driven in. Think chauffeur. So having a roomy and comfortable back seat is important. I think the model Y will be a huge hit here. When I was in China on business I was normally driven in a CUV style vehicle.

 

[RobStark]

Note that while China is more populous, median income is only around $3,000 per year (!), while median income in western Europe is around $25,000 per year.

So the European car market is significantly larger in Tesla's $35k-$55k price segment.

This is also the reason why Tesla is only going to make Standard Range Model 3's in China, and is eventually going to sell them for less than $30k IMHO.



Maybe, but they don't currently, and even a 33%/66% split is a long way from "way of the Dodo" status.

(BTW., long term I'd expect the "minibus" form factor to dominate, once FSD is so reliable that cars will start coming without a steering wheel. The interior will dramatically change and is going to be work and entertainment optimized, not driving optimized.)

1) North America and South Korea median income isn't $3k per year.

2) Chinese that make over $38k (European Union Average) is over 330M. And this "global middle class" is growing much faster than Europe.

3) Standard practice in China for foreign automakers is to use 2-3 generation ago technology in local manufacturing, i.e. to prevent I.P. transfer to Chinese government. This may very well be the reason why only low end will be made in China not only for China but entire Asia Region. And Tesla will import premium Model 3/Y from the US for entire Asia Region.

4) Model Y will outsell Model 3 in Europe once fully ramped.

5) MInivan MPV are not sedans.

 

[mongo]

What purchase? You haven't purchased something until you've paid for it. A non-refundable deposit is not a "purchase". That said, I'm sure that didn't stop some people for applying regardless, but I can't imagine that most people would think "I've made a deposit, so now I can apply for purchase incentives!"
.

A subsidy that the government pays for would be applied to the price when you purchase the car.
$$$ vehicle price
- X government subsidy that was previously applied by submitting the vehicle order parperwork for and granted
= $$

You can't claim an unapproved subsidy, thus you order the car, apply for the subsidy, then pickup the car and pay the price - subsidy.

Otherwise the system is buy a car for $$$ then apply for subsidy, then find out if your final price is $$$ or $$. The US credit is guaranteed (assuming sufficient tax burden), thus no pre-app process need.

They are applications for cars that have a purchase agreement, not just a deposit.

Read for yourself:

Frequently asked questions (FAQs) about the purchase grant for electric vehicles

How much money do you receive as environmental bonus for electric vehicles?
The environmental bonus for all-electric-driven and for plug-in-hybrid vehicles amounts to 4,000 euros and 3,000 euros respectively. The bonus is paid for all new vehicles from producers who participate in the programme. Half of the environmental bonus is directly deducted from the purchase price (producer's share), and the federal government's share is paid by BAFA directly to the applicant.

How can I apply for the environmental bonus?
Car buyers can submit their applications - only online - to the Federal Office for Economic Affairs and Export Control (BAFA). The purchase contract must specify the purchase price as reduced by the producer.

You can find more details about the information to be submitted for the application here (in German). BAFA pays the federal government's share of the environmental bonus (50%) directly to the final customer. The environmental bonus is also paid to customers who lease eligible vehicles. This also applies to the purchase and lease of company and commercial vehicles.

 

[JRP3]

I would think the MY will have slightly less legroom than M3 if anything. This is normal when you sit upright.

Eh? Leg room has a vertical component as well as horizontal. A higher seat provides more leg room in the same horizontal distance.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

Nope, no per kWh charge. (Fred is wrong.)

And for the first year for e-tron owners the monthly Basic Fee (17.95) is free.

So just a flat 8 euros per session. So if you do a 80% charge that would be about 0.11 euro per kWh.

Ah, ok. That’s still laughably high. The year of free “basic fee” is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Just subtract 215.4 from the price of the car. And, of course, you’re paying that 17.95 every. Single. Month. Whether you use it or not. On top of the (high but not ridiculous on its own) cost for each charge.

 

[bpjod]

YES!! Longer wheelbase please! Just another inch between rows, and an extra foot or two for cargo in the back. Same cross sectional area, so same wind resistance, vastly increased utility for deliveries and cargo. It will still be much smaller than a US pick up truck or full size old-school van. If only my Model X was that much roomier.

Make a wagon version with actual towing capability (and official tow ratings) and I'll trade in my M3 LR RWD in a heartbeat. My prior two cars were VW Sportwagen TDI and Subaru Outback so that will give you an idea of what I'm looking for. In the meantime, I'm loving my M3 as it is and looking forward to what the MY has to offer (for my wife - to replace our Highlander and to tow our 3,200 lb RV).

 

[RobStark]

Tesla Model 3 U.S. Deliveries Dip As It Ships To Global Markets

Insideevs estimate for Tesla January Deliveries

Model 3 6500
Model S 875
Model X 950

 

[gwright]

Since service was a big topic heading into ER, I thought I would share my experience. 12K miles on MS. Annual service per service plan. I live 120 miles away, so scheduled and rescheduled a couple of times via app and email without problem. Spoke on phone with a rep about possibility of mobile service handling annual checkup. Was told that was possible by a service rep via phone in December, but that it would need to be after EOQ. Scheduled again for today via app with note attached requesting mobile service. Received an email within a day or two of scheduling that mobile service was not available for annuals. I have no problem with that (although I expect that will be coming in the future). Communication was timely and on point.

Actual service experience was flawless. They knew it was me as soon as I pulled up (due to geo-fence). Since I came from 120 miles, put car on supercharger to save me a stop. Washed car. Timely finish.

I suspect the center is less busy right now due to M3 deliveries heading overseas (a thought for those of you scheduling non-emergent service - pick one of the first 2 months in the quarter). Spoke with some of the reps and they confirmed that EOQ is a zoo.

Point of the long note - my communication was great and service when delivered as intended is 100% better than any I've experienced in an ICE car, including several Sewell Lexus appointments. I know there are issues, and the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but my experience was exceptional.

 

[Remus]

Tesla Model 3 U.S. Deliveries Dip As It Ships To Global Markets

Insideevs estimate for Tesla January Deliveries

Model 3 6500
Model S 875
Model X 950

I was hoping this would bring buying opportunity! Guess I was wrong

 

[avoigt]

To: Boss Short

Got a really good one for you. Won't last long but here it is.

Headline: Shortsville Times
Toyota Prius sales exceed Tesla Model 3 in Germany !

Toyota Prius (PHEV): 916
Tesla Model 3: 911
Hyundai Kona Elektro: 909

Your Partner in Crime
Chief Editor
Shortsville Times

You should mention that the the Model 3 applications are the ones from 9 full days and the Toyota Prius applications are all from the past months cumulated they have not approved and worked on yet. That office is a slow worker so we may have even a cumulated 6 months in front of us.

As you said that will change quickly. In March we will get the next data set and that will be data from about 39 days.

Can't wait to get those in my hands....

 

[Mark's Beagle]

https://electrek.co/2019/02/01/tesla-patent-battery-cell/

 

[KarenRei]

Tesla Model 3 U.S. Deliveries Dip As It Ships To Global Markets

Insideevs estimate for Tesla January Deliveries

Model 3 6500
Model S 875
Model X 950

S & X better than last January. Model 3 sales IMHO surprisingly strong given the huge December rush and the end of the tax credit. Maybe people who didn't feel that they'd get the full benefit of the tax credit but benefitted from the $2k price reduction?

 

[avoigt]

Even if it's possible to apply before taking delivery, I doubt most people would think it would be possible.

Heck, I have a lot of trouble picturing an application getting approved before you've paid for the car in full.

Thats right. I did not know that you can apply before making the full payment and I guess most people do not believe so either. In fact I thought I cannot apply before I have the car but learned I can. Having said that many people will have a 3 on order but just don't know they can apply or don't care to apply yet.

IOW orders will be way larger than applications.