Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[abasile]

I am a meat eater, though I avoid red meat for health and environmental reasons. Still, the analogy made by @KarenRei resonated with me. We human beings have the unfortunate tendency of allowing ourselves to become numb to evil rather than changing our ways.

Personally, I am "pro life", in a very broad sense. Valuing human life at all stages includes addressing environmental issues, especially climate change, that have the potential to seriously threaten human life. Being "pro life" should also require one to respect animal life, so even if we do choose to eat meat, we should desire humane treatment of farm-bred animals.

This worldview is what leads me to have an oversized TSLA position (and to avoid alcohol and tobacco companies, fossil fuel companies, etc.) No, it's not okay for us to continue smoking, burning oil, etc., etc., when we know what the consequences are, and when we're in the position to choose alternatives. Sure, I may buy and sell portions of my TSLA and/or other "conscientious investments" at times, but the guiding worldview remains the same.

Now, others here will have worldviews that don't necessarily align with everything I've shared about myself. If, however, each person can seek to be more sensitive to their moral compass, and act and invest accordingly, then the world will be a better place. One thing I truly appreciate about this particular community of investors is that it seems that many people here are seeking to do just that.

Don't you think that comparing meat eaters to baby eaters might be ... a tad offensive to meat eaters? Don't you think that a meat eater friend of yours trying to prepare meat-alike vegetarian food for you maybe does it not to change your mind and to offend you, but because they think both you and them would like it as a good common ground?

Don't you think that it's an entirely rational view to consider both plants and animals complex non-sentient nano-robots, just like Andrej Karpathy, Director of Tesla AI, thinks they are:

Andrej Karpathy on Twitter

"Nature stuff all around us (plants, animals, etc) are best thought of as basically super advanced alien technology. These are nanotechnology devices magically grown in ambient conditions with complex information processing. Synthetic bio is tinkering with / hijacking this tech."​

Or do you really think that using complex non-sentient nano-robots as a protein source is even remotely comparable to cannibalizing sentient beings of your own species?

I have to say that despite being a vegetarian you managed to butcher that analogy into a bloody mess...

 

[Cherry Wine]

https://app.handelsblatt.com/today/politics/collision-course-us-threat-to-germanys-car-sector-bears-greater-economic-risk/24007884.html?ticket=ST-1152447-3aAHbSJ2zpaKdIzTPxMi-ap1

 

[Carl Raymond]

Place yourself into the analogy I presented, then understand what your statement looks like to me - "You make a statement against eating babies, and the people around you act like you're the horrible person for saying such a thing."

I've given you a perfectly effective way to see the world through the eyes of people who are vegetarians for moral reasons. It's your choice if you choose not to make use of it, but deliberately refusing to look through another person's eyes means you're guaranteed to never understand them.

Is it uncomfortable for you to realize that eating meat next to a person who's a vegetarian for moral reasons is the same experience for them that sitting next to a person eating a baby would be for you? I'm sorry, but that's the reality. Does that reality make you uncomfortable? Then don't do it.



Sentient is the key word, now isn't it? That's the word that bothers us when it comes to killing. Go on, define sentient. That's something philosophers have been trying to do for ages.

One of the classic definitions of sentience is metacognition. The ability to think about one's own thoughts. If you can think about what you're thinking, pondering yourself, then that's sentience, right? That's what's supposed to set us apart from "the animals" (as if we're not "an animal", but that's a whole different can of worms).

Guess what? Metacognition is not unique to humans. Even rats do it:

Metacognition in the rat

I don’t see any proof of metacognition there. The subconscious is very powerful and is trained by repetition. A basketballer does not think about where on the backboard to lay the ball, indeed, that’s a sure way to miss the shot.

I could be wrong. It was a cursory read of the study.

 

[Johann Koeber]

Deliveries in Germany are starting, but there are still growing pains.
I got to see my new M3P:

Could not drive it home yet, because the invoice was missing. I paid the amount anyway, hoping Tesla will sort it out. Tonight I finally got the invoice. I am a professional accountant, and I hate to pay anything without a proper invoice. OTOH Tesla has a lot of money for the next gen Roadster from me - without much documentation.

Now I am waiting for the registration papers. Date for car pick up is now Wednesday 14.00 in Nuremberg.

The lot was full of M3 waiting for delivery. The store was not very full with people. My impression, it will take a few more days and then the cars will really start moving.

 

[Reciprocity]

If you feel you can take a whole lot of anti Tesla misinformation this idiot can supply it, in a super annoying manner. 1.8 million subscribers

At some point, people like this no longer matter. When model 3s are everywhere and you know someone with one and can ask them questions. all this crap slinging carries way less weight. Word of mouth is so effective because you generally know if the messenger would lead you astray. Even frienmies will things that they agree on and can talk about even if they are rivals. The war was kind of won with the model 3s successful ramp. There is a lot of hard work to be done, but they know the formula works, they just have to scale it up to millions with Y. Pickups will be a bit tougher, but only because the current incumbents are so ingrained in the US. My brother would never drive anything other than a Chevy pickup. These guys will be tough to win over. Tesla has to make the truck better in every way, it cant even be close. It will be very interesting to see how they accomplish that, because I am sure they know what it will take. I am not talking about the cyber punk Pickup but the mainstream variation. Semi credibility should help a lot. If Tesla can earn some accolades from the semi and then talk about how the same tech, motors and capabilities have been scaled down and packaged for the hard working American blue colored truck owner. It will be very interesting to see what Franz comes up with. I cant even imagine.

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

While I would prefer there to not be a tariff war with Europe, especially at the same time as China, the idea of a tariff war with Europe doesn't worry me that much for a couple of reasons.

- Gas is sooooo expensive over there that even if Tesla had to raise the price of the Model 3 to account for retaliatory tariffs, I don't think it would affect demand that much

- The pent up demand for Model 3. If a trade war were to happen, the best time it could happen is during the initial 6 months of Model 3 launch because there would be demand and excitement that would limit the issue of lack of demand due to higher prices

- Right now a US company is already at a disadvantage when trying to sell their cars in Europe(10% tax) vs a European company selling their cars here (2.5% tax). The playing field should be even and fair. If Trump could actually pressure Europe into a fair 2.5% tax(even a 5% tax would be better) by threatening tariffs, Tesla would immediately benefit.

A trade war would hurt Europe much worse than the US when it comes to car companies. I think EU has lot of incentive to see this not happen and would make concessions. The only wild card is of course Trump.......even when his bullying tactic starts to work, he is incapable of taking the concessions and making a deal.

 

[JRP3]

Seems to me these discussions have even less to do with this TSLA INVESTING round table.

Just sayin'.

True, we do have a thread for the topic if further discussion is desired: Veganism/Leather etc. out of Market Action

 

[anthonyj]

 

[gora321]

Breaking News: Honda set to announce closure of Swindon plant in 2022 with 3,500 jobs at risk

 

[Zaxxon]

So the market is closed; I think I'll just stop by and give a quick look-see to what's going on in the TMC threa....

 

[dc_h]

Place yourself into the analogy I presented, then understand what your statement looks like to me - "You make a statement against eating babies, and the people around you act like you're the horrible person for saying such a thing."

I've given you a perfectly effective way to see the world through the eyes of people who are vegetarians for moral reasons. It's your choice if you choose not to make use of it, but deliberately refusing to look through another person's eyes means you're guaranteed to never understand them.

Is it uncomfortable for you to realize that eating meat next to a person who's a vegetarian for moral reasons is the same experience for them that sitting next to a person eating a baby would be for you? I'm sorry, but that's the reality. Does that reality make you uncomfortable? Then don't do it.



Sentient is the key word, now isn't it? That's the word that bothers us when it comes to killing. Go on, define sentient. That's something philosophers have been trying to do for ages.

One of the classic definitions of sentience is metacognition. The ability to think about one's own thoughts. If you can think about what you're thinking, pondering yourself, then that's sentience, right? That's what's supposed to set us apart from "the animals" (as if we're not "an animal", but that's a whole different can of worms).

Guess what? Metacognition is not unique to humans. Even rats do it:

Metacognition in the rat

I can’t speak for the other baby eaters on the forum, but I am offended. We’re often misunderstood and malaigned and I thought tMC was a safe space.

 

[gene]

While I would prefer there to not be a tariff war with Europe, especially at the same time as China, the idea of a tariff war with Europe doesn't worry me that much for a couple of reasons.

- Gas is sooooo expensive over there that even if Tesla had to raise the price of the Model 3 to account for retaliatory tariffs, I don't think it would affect demand that much

- The pent up demand for Model 3. If a trade war were to happen, the best time it could happen is during the initial 6 months of Model 3 launch because there would be demand and excitement that would limit the issue of lack of demand due to higher prices

- Right now a US company is already at a disadvantage when trying to sell their cars in Europe(10% tax) vs a European company selling their cars here (2.5% tax). The playing field should be even and fair. If Trump could actually pressure Europe into a fair 2.5% tax(even a 5% tax would be better) by threatening tariffs, Tesla would immediately benefit.

A trade war would hurt Europe much worse than the US when it comes to car companies. I think EU has lot of incentive to see this not happen and would make concessions. The only wild card is of course Trump.......even when his bullying tactic starts to work, he is incapable of taking the concessions and making a deal.

Many or most European "imports" are made in the USA, so no tariff on those. About Trump, he isn't thinking any of this through, nor strategically. He doesn't care, he's just making up tariffs to look "presidential" while he worries about pending investigations and who from his family may end up behind bars. Knowing "Art of the Deal" Trump, the USA made German cars will have no tariff, the Tesla's going to Germany will have a 25% tariff. Now that's what I call a master negotiator!

 

[ZsoZso]

I can’t speak for the other baby eaters on the forum, but I am offended. We’re often misunderstood and malaigned and I thought tMC was a safe space.

BTW, eating babies is a very effective way to combat climate change !
After all, the root of the problem is over population.
Less population needs less food, burns less fossil fuels

Just sayin...

 

[dc_h]

Semi credibility should help a lot.

Great point, the most powerful marketing could be from providing the best biggest truck out there.

 

[Thekiwi]

Just a head's up of some Tesla related news that have not (yet) hit the general media:

Friday or possibly before in rural USA a Tesla transport carrying one new blue Model S, one new black Model X, one blue Model 3 and one white Model S drove off the road and came to a stop on the soft shoulder.

Following the accident one standing male (possibly the driver) and one other person surveyed the damage, which was extensive to the white Model S and less so to the tractor and trailer.

What is the news here? Unless the cars are being carried on a Tesla semi running on Autopilot, then I don’t see any news here (car carriers crash just as often as any other type of truck)

 

[candersoh]

according to @hedgemind
"$TSLA experienced the most outflows of share & money in the last quarter among institutional holders since 17Q2. During both time period, 18Q4 and 17Q2, the stock was at or near all time high ~$380."

 

[Words of HABIT]

Graphs from Yahoo Finance for TSLA. I'm not worried.

 

[Yuri_G]

Tesla is the tip of the spear, other EV companies can draft in behind Tesla.

Rivian doesn't have to convince people that an EV can be your sole vehicle.

Rivian doesn't have to prove that, when an EV is done right, it is worth $68k plus.

Rivian doesn't face a dessert of charging stations forcing it to build pretty much all good charging facilities for its owners. Electrify America is forced to spend $2B of VW's dieselgate settlement money on CCS charging stations. Rivian plans to build its own chargers near popular off-road destinations. Plus the are other CCS charging networks that will be much more developed by Q4 2020 when Rivian is expected to deliver its first vehicles.

The R1T and specifically the R1S products are hits waiting to happen.

Model S program launched with roughly $400M spent. Rivian has raised $1.4B. Amazon has done their due diligence and invested ~$500M or more.

There will be more than one successful company selling EVs in the USA in 2030. Tesla can't have 100% market share. The vast majority of legacy automakers are dragging their feet on a mass scale EV program than can deliver a profitable compelling EV on a mass manufacturing scale.

I guess I am an optimistic person. I don't enjoy taking a crap on good people trying to do good that appear to have set up all their ducks in a row for success.

The execution over the next two plus years will be tough. I am hopeful they will become very successful.

Tough is an understatement. I do hope they succeed as well, but some seem to be handing them a trophy for being the next successful US EV manufacturer and that feels a bit premature.

Once they have a legitimate battery contract for those massive packs and more realistic prices for their trucks I'll get excited. Faraday Future and Lucid had impressive prototypes and both are on the brink, therefore I'm skeptical until concrete progress is made.

 

[AudubonB]

ZERO reason to discuss eating habits here. It ends now.
Thanks, JRP.







Buncha babies, all of you. Should be barbecued

 

[Curt Renz]

CFRA analyst Garrett Nelson has a BUY rating on Tesla and raised the price target to $420 in December. He replaced Efraim Levy who was a long time Tesla bear.

Tomorrow at 11 am EST, CFRA will conduct a webinar on its stock appreciation ranking system and portfolio performance. You can register at: STARS Portfolios and Model Portfolios

You can then participate in a Q&A session. They’ve always answered at least one of my questions.