Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[KarenRei]

It doesn't seem to me he's making an argument. He's stating some facts (Superchargers aren't there yet), and his personal preference (to have a working Chademo so even without superchargers he could make a Model 3 work).

Perhaps this conversation is missing part, because we've discussed this before, where they made very clear his belief that Tesla simply won't build near them, and hence it'd be better to get a non-Tesla so that one can use CHAdeMO. It's not a discussion of whether "having an adapter is better than having no adapter".

My disagreement is the same disagreement I've had with people from west Texas, east Canada, and dozens of other locations where people come in and insist that because Tesla doesn't currently have Superchargers near them, it never will. People who then disappear as soon as Tesla does, actually, build near them shortly thereafter.

 

[scaesare]

Well, it is true that Mercedes-Benz did develop a single blade wiper system for their cars at considerable expense and the market soundly rejected it. The wiper on that vehicle is also exposed and highly unaerodynamic which is a no-no in an EV.

So, your wife’s concerns about being embarrassed walking up to church are probably legit.

That is, however, the same wiper design on the Semi and Roadster that Tesla has shown:

 

[Artful Dodger]

Awkward smiling nerd dance is the traditional method of expressing angst on his home planet. Poor guy.

Poise was never an option.

Pees were never an option.

Peach was never an option.

 

[Chickenlittle]

Of course you can go to production/delivery section of model3 but for those not watching there, I was very surprised to see 2 week delivery of a model3 LR AWD ordered this morning. Live on east coast so clearly already built and either in transit or at distribution center.

Actually just texted by tesla delivery in 7 days after buy. Wow

 

[dgodfrey]

Yes, but you were questioning the wisdom of the Tesla designers choosing the aero-styling they did, espousing instead a more traditional (albeit less aerodynamically efficient) approach:


Which prompted @Pezpunk to point out that the Model 3 designers opted for more mileage, the idea being that 195 miles was not enough:


You then asked the question that challenged that assertion, seemingly defending that 195 miles was sufficient:



So, now that we've walked though your support of 195 miles being and acceptable trade-off to support your premise a more traditional body style would better serve the Model Y, my point remains: Take that aero-compromised range, and slice at least a third off of it for cold weather. The Tesla designers optimize for aero efficiency for very good reasons...

I wonder if those that would rather have style over aero really know the significance as it pertains to an EV. I'm actually quite glad that Tesla chose aero over style with my Model 3. I get into these debates on the Bolt forum when they throw anything and everything trying to highlight the shortcomings of the Model 3 compared to E-Trons, Bolts, I-Pace, Taycan's and Kona's.
It makes my defense a simple algebra proof where I show that a Model 3 SR with an EPA range of 220 miles will travel further than the Bolt which has a EPA range of 238 miles on long distance highway travels. All because the Boltronpacecana's have the aero of a ham sandwich.

Highway EPA of the Bolt is 110 MPGe
Highway EPA of the Model 3 SR is 127 MPGe

Usable battery capacity of the Bolt is 60 kWh
Usable battery capacity of the 3SR is 52.75 kWh
1 gallon=33.7 kWh
Effective highway range of Bolt: 60kWh/33.7kWh x 110 MPGe= 195.8 miles
Effective highway range of 3SR: 52.75kWh/33.7kWh x 127 MPGe=198.8 miles

 

[Webeevdrivers]

Perhaps this conversation is missing part, because we've discussed this before, where they made very clear his belief that Tesla simply won't build near them, and hence it'd be better to get a non-Tesla so that one can use CHAdeMO. It's not a discussion of whether "having an adapter is better than having no adapter".

My disagreement is the same disagreement I've had with people from west Texas, east Canada, and dozens of other locations where people come in and insist that because Tesla doesn't currently have Superchargers near them, it never will. People who then disappear as soon as Tesla does, actually, build near them shortly thereafter.

Karen we do have Superchargers near us...well, 60 km away. But as a Tesla owner you know that one doesn’t need a Supercharger or DCFC near them, but rather 200 km away. If all we did was travel back and forth to Vancouver we would be well served by the existing Tesla Supercharger network. But we don’t. We frequently travel into the scenic interior which although well served by Chademo and CCS are not served at all by Superchargers. And yes I doubt they will be anytime soon because Tesla honestly could spend their money better elsewhere like completing a cross Canada corridor. These interior routes are well served by government CCS/Chademo stations not to mention Petro Canada, Canadian Tire and Shell are all starting there own build outs. I don’t count on those but the government sites are reliable and in constant state of growth.

A CCS/Chademo site is not a Supercharger. We get that. But if an adapter would allow us to buy the best EV on the market then we would be fine with dealing with the slower charging. We like the Leaf (we have a first generation leaf that we will keep) , but we love the Tesla.

If we bought a Tesla model 3 we would have to buy a Leaf as well. That’s not in the budget. If it was we would buy a model S and the adapter.

 

[BornToFly]

Anyone want to venture a guess on what the SP does tomorrow and the rest of the week after digesting the Y news over the weekend? The FUD is so strong, I honestly don't have a clue. I could not have imagined the SP getting this low at this point, so I want to say it can't go lower, but my confidence is shaken....

 

[jerry33]

1 gallon=33.7 kWh

The kWh for a gallon of gasoline is a poor measure because so little of it actually goes to powering the car. Most is thrown away as heat.

 

[capster]

That is, however, the same wiper design on the Semi and Roadster that Tesla has shown:

As usual, Musk and Tesla probably know something I don’t.

 

[madodel]

Poise was never an option.


Peach was never an option.

So pears it is!

 

[kbM3]

Lets be realistic... the Kona and Niro are absolutely competitors to the Model Y. They aren't identical vehicles but you can be sure potential buyers in that price point will consider them.

Their performance is lower and their features may not match perfectly, but their range/price is competitive. Guess what, that is -exactly- how Hyundai/Kia grew to be the substantial automaker that they are, by offering acceptable performance for a few thousand dollars less.

Actually Hyundai began by offering competition to Honda and Toyota by offering equivalent vehicles for a couple of thousand dollars less. E.g. the Hyundai Elantra vs. the Honda Civic. No one ever said “Hey look. This Elantra is $15k cheaper than an equivalent Mercedes C class. What a bargain!”.

That’s the whole reason Hyundai created the Genesis brand.

So no. The Niro is nowhere near being a competitor to the Model Y.

 

[Smokey4141]

I see what you did there!
We can read between your lines, we know what you are trying to spell out.
But we are not buying story, sorry! Not selling TSLA stocks any time soon, try harder!

And I see that your response is alllllll ~you~.....

 

[Pras]

And I see that your response is alllllll ~you~.....

Your profile pics tells all. This picture could have been more relevant in a non-Tesla world. But here we have superchargers!!

 

[Wnuk]

Anyone want to venture a guess on what the SP does tomorrow and the rest of the week after digesting the Y news over the weekend? The FUD is so strong, I honestly don't have a clue. I could not have imagined the SP getting this low at this point, so I want to say it can't go lower, but my confidence is shaken....

I bought the dip. So I expect it to drop

 

[EVNow]

Finally reserved Y. All that my wife cared about was
- How tall is the driver seat (don't know ! - but taller than 3)
- Does it have 7 seats (yes ! the 3rd row is child seat compatible)
- What color to order (finally chose white)

So, in 2 years, finally we'll get rid of ICE in our home. I've been looking for at least a PHEV to replace her CUV for a decade.

 

[GaryW]

Finally reserved Y. All that my wife cared about was
- How tall is the driver seat (don't know ! - but taller than 3)
- Does it have 7 seats (yes ! the 3rd row is child seat compatible)
- What color to order (finally chose white)

So, in 2 years, finally we'll get rid of ICE in our home. I've been looking for at least a PHEV to replace her CUV for a decade.

We love being all electric. I’ll bet you will love it, too.

 

[EVNow]

We frequently travel into the scenic interior which although well served by Chademo and CCS are not served at all by Superchargers.

Ofcourse the other option would be to charge using L2 - if you are staying for a long time.

In general Tesla prioritizes well traveled paths and builds large charging station with 10 chargers - rather than 2 chargers in 5 places that travelers like.

We have similar issues in the PNW - lots of CHAdeMO/CCS chargers in the interior - but SCs on busy freeways.

 

[BornToFly]

So, in 2 years, finally we'll get rid of ICE in our home.

I wish we could. I have a 7 year old Grand Cherokee that I keep for only two reasons. I need to be able to tow 7,000 lbs on occasion, and I need to be able to tow an AWD vehicle behind the Motorhome with all four wheels on the ground (I have no place to store a trailer big enough to put a car onto for camping trips).

 

[ggies07]

Data point: We were chatting with our neighbor friends outside on this fine evening for quite a while and I brought up my 3 again since it was out in the driveway. The neighbor loves it, but prefers SUV. After seeing my car a month ago, she immediately went to look at the website and noticed the X was way too expensive. That's when I chimed in and said, "You're in luck! Tesla just announced a smaller, cheaper SUV" and then I proceeded to show her pics and such. She was very intrigued and said she could see herself trading in her Jeep.

 

[KarenRei]

Karen we do have Superchargers near us...well, 60 km away. But as a Tesla owner you know that one doesn’t need a Supercharger or DCFC near them, but rather 200 km away. If all we did was travel back and forth to Vancouver we would be well served by the existing Tesla Supercharger network. But we don’t. We frequently travel into the scenic interior which although well served by Chademo and CCS are not served at all by Superchargers. And yes I doubt they will be anytime soon because Tesla honestly could spend their money better elsewhere like completing a cross Canada corridor. These interior routes are well served by government CCS/Chademo stations not to mention Petro Canada, Canadian Tire and Shell are all starting there own build outs. I don’t count on those but the government sites are reliable and in constant state of growth.

A CCS/Chademo site is not a Supercharger. We get that. But if an adapter would allow us to buy the best EV on the market then we would be fine with dealing with the slower charging. We like the Leaf (we gave a first generation leaf that we will keep) , but we love the Tesla.

If we bought a Tesla model 3 we would have to buy a Leaf as well. That’s not in the budget. If it was we would buy a model S and the adapter.

And as I've mentioned many times - and have nothing to add beyond this - making a multi-year commitment based on a notion that the Supercharger network is static and will never grow near you - is as dumb as someone buying a gas guzzler because gas prices happen to be low at the time that they buy it.