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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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WARNING: Fanboy Rant

All excellent points, and I'll add one more that is easy to forget because it is hard to model.

Robotaxis will change everything. ...if they happen, which I believe is highly likely.

As Sam Korus of ARK just tweeted (thanks @Mo City for the link), the current ecosystem of ICE automakers and dealers and financiers is dependent on two traditions that Tesla robotaxis will destroy. When car-buying is no longer essential because robotaxi-riding is much cheaper and more convenient, that ecosystem (and much of the oil industry) will collapse.

I believe the collapse will happen much faster than most people expect (if they are thinking about it at all, which seems rare). Even Papa Baron just said he expects TSLA to be up 10x in 10 years. If robotaxis happen, which seems extremely likely within 10 years, this prediction is extremely conservative, as calculated by our own @FrankSG.
My Tesla Investment Thesis 2.0: Tesla's Monopoly Potential

Tesla is busting their behinds to make correct Elon's estimate of a million robotaxis on the road by next year. Production of potential robotaxis is increasing. All it will take to convert potential to actual is a software update, maybe more chargers and cleaning companies that will spring up like mushrooms, and consent of the car owners. Some owners here said they will never consent to strangers riding in their car, even though they don't yet know how Tesla could prevent abuse with the interior camera and smartphone software to report and ban abusers. But even these folks said they might make their second Tesla a robotaxi, especially if it pays for their new Tesla. Every day brings more owners with a second Tesla, especially as TSLA keeps marching upward.

Tesla's mission is to get as many ICE cars off the roads as fast as possible. If too few Tesla owners volunteer their cars to meet robotaxi demand, Tesla could divert production to their own fleet as much as necessary to optimize emissions-reduction. I suspect Tesla is already designing cars specialized to be robotaxis (no steering wheel, more screens)... maybe a cheap one (designed in China?) for basic transportation, and a luxury one for the limousine market. We have no idea what these wily innovators are cooking up, but we do know that Tesla has powerful reasons (both financial and environmental) to make robotaxis happen ASAP, and that Elon doesn't give up.

So I'm with @Krugerrand who distrusts authorities such as Bloomberg New Energy Finance and other forecasters thinking inside the box of history. They can't see much beyond the robotaxi singularity. Well, nobody can, including me. But I can see that whenever robotaxis happen, the event will hit the auto industry and TSLA like a nuclear bomb.

And to investors selling TSLA at a piddly $1000, all I can say is... thank you for helping me buy more.

Would you rather get into a car with a total stranger and trust that person with your life or have a robotaxi delivered to you that you can drive anywhere you want and park anywhere you want afterward. Would you not be willing to pay more for this service? The minute the robotaxi comes out the car rental business will be ZERO. The robotaxi owner will be able to charge MORE than the slave Uber driver. At this point FSD will hugely jump in price to perhaps $20,000 or more. In the beginning Tesla robotaxi owners will make a fortune perhaps 100% of their investment in the car each year. So many people will hear about all this that as always they will all jump in at the same time and the price will collapse. People will stop owning cars en mass with all the wonderful side effects.
 
View attachment 550249 Anybody know what happened to TT007 ?

He's still there:

upload_2020-6-11_11-59-49.png
 
Maybe deleted his account? Weird, he posted just this morning about TSLA being like $2800 by July 2021 or something like that, and was "all in" on it.

EDIT: Yeah, deleted his account. Here's a continuing thread based off of the tweet I was talking about:

https://twitter.com/teslanalyst/status/1270530836018933760

Appears he's locked his account so that only followers (and I guess people he follows) has access.

Maybe he got some abuse and had enough of it.

He must be pretty loaded now, given that he had the equivalent of 70k shares, or there abouts...
 
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It'd be a real shame if.... Overlord Musk announces the Battery day date during AH today. :p

What is AH day? I believe acronyms are overused. I just spent a needless 5 minutes trying to figure out what AH means. Ok call me stupid but I am not the only one that wastes so much time dealing with this. Acronyms are an underhanded way to show that you are smarter than me meanwhile accomplishing nothing.
 
What is AH day? I believe acronyms are overused. I just spent a needless 5 minutes trying to figure out what AH means. Ok call me stupid but I am not the only one that wastes so much time dealing with this. Acronyms are an underhanded way to show that you are smarter than me meanwhile accomplishing nothing.

After Hours.

But don’t feel bad about acronyms.

Acronyms Seriously Suck - Elon Musk
 
Also just watched NKLA take off like crazy with hydrogen fuel cell and electric semi and pickup ideas - nothing close to working and road tested prototypes - why not jump in now with the Tesla semi? Will this be a NKLA killer?
How is it possible to kill something that doesn't exist?
 
I wonder if Elon may use one of the current class 8 truck manufacturers as a contract manufacturer for the Semi. Tesla supplies all the components and they assemble the truck. I see very little IP risk here and it would speed the time to market. I toured the Mack truck plant one time and the assembly is very manual due to the low volume and product variation. It's not at all like high volume car manufacturing. There are only about 200k of these trucks sold per year in the US and the volume of each manufacturer is only 20-90K. Their sales are down and I am sure they would love the assembly business. Sure they may all dream of their own electric truck but they don't have the know how to make it happen. It maybe a good practical solution. Just a thought on how this may play out but understand this goes against Tesla's nature to vertically integrate. Keep in mind the value is in the components going into the truck, batteries, motors, etc not so much in the assembly.
Silly.
 
The reason for discrepancies in reporting on Toyota's marketcap is that Toyota holds 30b$ in US treasuries.
So their marketcap is 180b excluding those and 210b including.

Tell that to Bloomberg.

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Those are not treasury bonds. Those are buyback shares of Toyota that Toyota is holding. It's equivalent to to inflating TSLA's market cap because they could release more shares.
Covered previously:
This has been discussed multiple times. CNBC and Google are wrong; they are counting shares bought back by Toyota.
 
So bloomberg is counting the shares outstanding wrong?
It's debatable, but I say yes, the higher count is wrong. The bought back shares are not in the market. Just like shares that were never issued.

If TM share price went up when they were repurchased (higher value per remaining share), and they are using the original higher share count, that is double dipping.
 

To lose $13bn in 6 months is quite something.

It's a while when I stop entering or continuing any discussion with them. I believe the last time was on Reddit or in the comment section of Die Welt in German. I realized its a waste of my time and energy as they did not follow any sane thought process and facts. For that reason, I can not feel any sorrow but believe everybody is it's own lucks Blacksmith *German saying.

I'm really happy with mine though ...
 
I feel I should urge again what THEY have in mind. Remember that this morning we opened with an EXTRA 12000 calls sold with a $1000 strike price yesterday. Today THEY did not slow down with them. Today we closed with.... OK I want you all to look very closely at this volume...... 40,000+ Call volume with a strike price of $1000.

There are PUTs now coming in at that $1000 and $1010 strikes but 1015 is looking like pretty much tops for Friday. I AM betting they push this down.

For next week THEY also sold 18000 more Calls with a $1000 strike price and next week the SP will do what they want.

This is going to be very interesting. Particularly if Battery Day is announced next week

The graph is todays volume..

View attachment 550147
I am replying to my own post so everyone can see what THEY did yesterday. I noted they were starting to sell PUTs at and above 1000 strike. See the hard part about reading the (tea leaves) volume chart is knowing which way that volume is going. Well the 40,000 CALL movement was sold but in the both directions so they ended up giving up on that strike price at some point, buying those back (it's still volume) and selling PUTs to cover the costs.

Below is the OPEN INTEREST after yesterdays rearrangement. Note the 10's of thousands of CALLs with a 1000 strike are gone and in their place are PUTs. I didn't fall for this week manipulation. Altho I went with 1010 so I might have to adjust a little today since 1020 looks like a better choice.

There are still 10,000 Calls at the 1000 strike they are just matched with PUTs now. I think since the 1000 strike is PUTs and CALLs that price becomes neutral. SO Friday can fall above or below and it's all good. They have today to work things into the final position. I still think they are going to buy back the PUTs above 1000. This is all fortune telling and not really reliable and you should NOT bet against this stuff unless you have money to gamble with. <----- note the word gamble.

Remember when I say THEY, I actually mean the MMs and the people buying this stuff in the market. Both are buying, both are selling. The MMs just have more influence.

Screenshot 2020-06-11 at 7.09.08 AM - Edited.png
 
A few hours ago Elon called fuel cells "staggeringly dumb" on twitter. NKLA down another 15% pre-market.
Think Nikola picked fuel cell to differentiate themselves from Tesla because they know there are zero people out there thinks they have anything on Tesla. You can't out Elon and will look like a crazy person saying how you have some secret sauce. Fuel cell however is a mystery to a lot of people.

The company is totally fake. It's the equivalent of those online money guru subscription service. Their claims have always been "I give you all the material, all you need is to execute to be a millionaire". Slow clap for Nikola using the same business plan.