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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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An inkling of what Robotaxis, cleaner emissions standards might bring.

London taxis stored in fields as passenger demand 'evaporates'

"Black cab rental firms have had to hire fields and car parks to store vehicles handed back by drivers.

The Licensed Taxi Drivers' Association (LTDA) says only 20% of drivers still have their vehicles in the capital."
 
Man. I still get called by the odd recruiter once in a while. One called today, and the first thought on my mind was "well, at the current rate, I'm honestly not sure that I could be bothered to take any regular paid job a year or two from now". I managed to keep a straight face - thankfully not at the point where I'll risk blurting that out loud yet. But my professional ambitions have moved distinctly closer to "what do I really want to spend my time on?" rather than "how do I make mucho dinaros as an in-demand employee" over the last six months.

Hopefully it'll be something slightly more ambitious than leveling up my Diablo 2 character and reading sci-fi, but let's not rule anything out yet :D

I actually started writing a bot for diablo 3 as my first gig after retiring. AI and machine vision had always been an interest of mine and I never had the chance to devote the time to it. Was making about $500 per month until they shut down the real money auction house. The thing is, it enable you to explore things that you never could before. It was also during this time devoid of distraction that I managed to find the next big thing that outperformed even TSLA and devoted my energy into furthering that cause.

The trap that a lot of people fall into is hedonism. Which is completely ok cause you have to get it out of your system before you can stare at it in the face and say: "Meh, that'd be boring" (Hint Dan Bilzerian). As long as you know your will is strong enough to get out of it. Most ppl fail at this stage and go complete overboard with hookers and blow. Just look at wallstreet.
 
I've been trying to game theory what might happen over the next five weeks. Not easy as there are many actors.

Until the index tracker funds are allowed to buy I think it is in no-ones interest to sell (except day traders, high frequency trading and other algos).

The key to this is realizing that a squeeze is happening and that there is guaranteed buying when the index trackers are finally allowed in. So there is no incentive to sell now, no matter what the price the index trackers will be forced to pay.

Short sellers will be forced to cover. That is about 1 million shares on average, but probably concentrated in the first few days. Maybe half the shares shorted will cover, the rest will be part of various hedging strategies, it is possible that most of those cover as well as the hedging strategy becomes mute.

Index benchmark funds, probably have few Tesla shares to sell, but have a large incentive to buy. Regardless of whether they aim to be above, below or equal weight in Tesla in the long term, in the short term they can ride the rise and beat the index. On average they will probably end up slightly under-weight, but that is still a lot of shares they need to buy and hold. Some might decide to wait, and only buy after index inclusion and the share price has settled down, this avoids potential losses but also misses the chance to beat the index. If they all bought to hit equal weight by 21st December that would be about 10 million shares a day, it will be lower than that, perhaps 3-5 million shares a day.

Some index tracker funds will have rules allowing them to buy early, or other mechanisms allowing them to acquire shares, perhaps 0,1 million shares a day at present rising to 1-2 million just before the main index tracker purchase period.

Traders, hedge funds, etc. will probably do a similar analysis to this and so will want to buy and hold until the index trackers start buying. They will try and time the top of the squeeze, which could lead to violent swings.

There could be FOMO among retail and some institutional investors, hard to predict how much, many I think lost out over the summer and will be reluctant to gamble on S&P inclusion again.

Call buying (private and institutional investors) will have to be delta hedged by the MMs, maybe to the tune of 1 million shares.

If there are so many shares being taken out of the immediate float each day and no significant selling, it would normally be up to the MMs to provide liquidity. But they if they did, then they could be on the hook for hundreds of billions, with no realistic prospect of delta hedging.

To sum up until the index tracking funds are allowed to buy there will more than usual buying pressure and it is in no ones interest to sell. This will drive the share price up and up.

After that until the 21st December there will be a fight between those wanting to cash out at the peak and those needing to buy almost at any cost, this is likely to lead to wild price swings, perhaps 20% up or down in a day. The other possibility is a very sharp high peak and then a crash.

By the new year I expect the share price to be returning to fundamentals, so perhaps about $600, but with lots of volatility. This volatility is driven by the different ways of valuing a company EDP, DCF, etc. giving wildly differing valuations and the inherent uncertainty of Tesla's S-curve ramp in production and the introduction of FSD.
I just want to thank you right out here in the open for giving your thoughtful scenario of the forces at work and what you feel is going to occur.
 
I've been trying to game theory what might happen over the next five weeks. Not easy as there are many actors.

Until the index tracker funds are allowed to buy I think it is in no-ones interest to sell (except day traders, high frequency trading and other algos).

The key to this is realizing that a squeeze is happening and that there is guaranteed buying when the index trackers are finally allowed in. So there is no incentive to sell now, no matter what the price the index trackers will be forced to pay.

Short sellers will be forced to cover. That is about 1 million shares on average, but probably concentrated in the first few days. Maybe half the shares shorted will cover, the rest will be part of various hedging strategies, it is possible that most of those cover as well as the hedging strategy becomes mute.

Index benchmark funds, probably have few Tesla shares to sell, but have a large incentive to buy. Regardless of whether they aim to be above, below or equal weight in Tesla in the long term, in the short term they can ride the rise and beat the index. On average they will probably end up slightly under-weight, but that is still a lot of shares they need to buy and hold. Some might decide to wait, and only buy after index inclusion and the share price has settled down, this avoids potential losses but also misses the chance to beat the index. If they all bought to hit equal weight by 21st December that would be about 10 million shares a day, it will be lower than that, perhaps 3-5 million shares a day.

Some index tracker funds will have rules allowing them to buy early, or other mechanisms allowing them to acquire shares, perhaps 0,1 million shares a day at present rising to 1-2 million just before the main index tracker purchase period.

Traders, hedge funds, etc. will probably do a similar analysis to this and so will want to buy and hold until the index trackers start buying. They will try and time the top of the squeeze, which could lead to violent swings.

There could be FOMO among retail and some institutional investors, hard to predict how much, many I think lost out over the summer and will be reluctant to gamble on S&P inclusion again.

Call buying (private and institutional investors) will have to be delta hedged by the MMs, maybe to the tune of 1 million shares.

If there are so many shares being taken out of the immediate float each day and no significant selling, it would normally be up to the MMs to provide liquidity. But they if they did, then they could be on the hook for hundreds of billions, with no realistic prospect of delta hedging.

To sum up until the index tracking funds are allowed to buy there will more than usual buying pressure and it is in no ones interest to sell. This will drive the share price up and up.

After that until the 21st December there will be a fight between those wanting to cash out at the peak and those needing to buy almost at any cost, this is likely to lead to wild price swings, perhaps 20% up or down in a day. The other possibility is a very sharp high peak and then a crash.

By the new year I expect the share price to be returning to fundamentals, so perhaps about $600, but with lots of volatility. This volatility is driven by the different ways of valuing a company EDP, DCF, etc. giving wildly differing valuations and the inherent uncertainty of Tesla's S-curve ramp in production and the introduction of FSD.
Is there a specific share price that S&P will use to determine the proportion of Tesla that is included . Does "inclusion" lock in a bogie that is dollar valued? or based on number of shares? When is the target value locked in (after which all know how much thet need to buy)?
 
Sorry guys. With NKLA +15.39% today, it just does not feel like at win for TSLA +10.29%
The only good news is that with NIO -3.28% at least we don't have to listen to @Quesder whine about having more Nio than Tesla.
Well , what happened today makes me less sense of guilt to TSLA on cheating with NIO.
Still, I didn’t sell any Tesla to buy NIO at all.
 
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Politics until Jan 6-20? Or healthcare until 3/21? Hospitals already shot and health care workers stretched to point of death/resignation or near exhaustion. Moderate impact on economy /s. We are 90% invested in TSLA and 5.4% cash or money market. Rest is big chunk of ARKG.

MIT Alumni(ae) mag reports Moderna founded by MIT profs. ("Arise ye sons of MIT...." /s
Ha! Heard that on POI and thought they made it up!
 
Is there a specific share price that S&P will use to determine the proportion of Tesla that is included . Does "inclusion" lock in a bogie that is dollar valued? or based on number of shares? When is the target value locked in (after which all know how much thet need to buy)?

My understanding is that S&P will release the Pro-forma files that have that information in them 1 week prior to the inclusion events. (5:15PM on 12/11 if they go with a single inclusion event, if they go in two tranches I assume the date would be 12/4, but I don't know if a modified one would be made available on 12/11 for the second tranche or if the first one is locked in.)

So the percentage necessary should be known 12/4 or 12/11. (The estimate they provided on Monday, the 16th, was calculated using information from Friday the 13th.)
 
That was macros dumping though.
The chart is what it is. I actually was looking for a 2% up day tomorrow before all profit is taken on the 500 calls, then consolidation on Friday. The macro dump just accelerated that. We still might have an up day tomorrow.
Since 465 was tested and failed at at least 4 times in the past, it will have to be revisited as we establish a new trading range. We closed almost a full candle above the upper BB. T +1 should be small up day. T+2 should be a down day. Then we go up on Monday before consolidating. There's a chance we might even go up to 550 before December but I doubt it. The last 2.5 months has taught people a lesson they can get burned quite badly FOMO-ing into TSLA.
 
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pz1975 has typically dispensed some pearls of wisdom, so I also acted, mind you for equally small potatoes, but they have sure produced a lot of shoots lately. I couldn't get them for the advertised prices, but did what I could with what I could.

Wondering if @pz1975 will chime in with where he is currently at with his proposed move. (Assuming he's not too busy perusing islandtrader magazine)
I ended up buying about $35K of December 4-18 calls on Monday ranging between 550-650 strike prices and some Jan 15 800s for fun. I also had to close covered calls at a loss (loss of $15K or so) but sold some puts to make up about 3/4 of those losses. This is on top of a bunch of 2022-23 LEAPs I had been accumulating during the stagnation. I keep all my core shares of course and don’t touch them.

The new calls I bought yesterday were down at close yesterday as I bought in the morning around 450-455 mostly. But now they are up 100% and I am holding them for at least 2 weeks. I expect a multi-day rally with some dips here and there but easily getting to 550 soon and likely to 650-750 by late December. Then an eventual correction after all the buying is done but not dropping back anywhere close to what it was before the S&P announcement.
 
Is Berkshire buying? I’ve been gone today so sorry if someone has already linked this. Either way give Dillon at electrified some live as he certainly does his homework.

Isn't Warren Buffett's philosophy in line with value investing? True, TSLA is growing its revenue, but Buffett likes undervalued companies, whereas no one really considers TSLA to be 'undervalued' by conventional metrics. It would seem very contrary to his investing style.
 
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Politics until Jan 6-20? Or healthcare until 3/21? Hospitals already shot and health care workers stretched to point of death/resignation or near exhaustion. Moderate impact on economy /s. We are 90% invested in TSLA and 5.4% cash or money market. Rest is big chunk of ARKG.

MIT Alumni(ae) mag reports Moderna founded by MIT profs. ("Arise ye sons of MIT...." /s
...and funded by Dolly Parton.
 
Don’t forget about @Papafox 's discovery of the big TSLA divestitures of the likes of Baillie Gifford and Fidelity. As the SP goes up, their portfolio diversities get more out of whack and they may start dumping given eager buyers.

Fidelity regrets they sold, was in the news. Said they mioght look to buy back in