Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[MP3Mike]

So do you think this software fix was 1. effective in avoiding a recall and 2. sufficient, from the customer's perspective, to correct the problem?

Since it isn't a safety related issue it wouldn't ever require a recall. What it avoids is possible warranty repairs. (But it also makes the packs out of warranty more usable/last longer.)

 

[AudubonB]

~~~~~~As ALREADY MENTIONED by @Right_Said_Fred , this is the TSLA/Tesla thread, and the weekend is now over. So, regardless of what YOU think important, discussions of Chinese sociopolitical currents & ilk, discussions of Bitcoins & ilk, discussions of snow in Queensland and so forth now has ENDED~~~~~~

 

[Words of HABIT]

A Huge Fund Bought Tesla, Apple, and Microsoft Stock. Here’s What It Sold.
PGGM of Zeist, Netherlands initiated a position in Tesla in Q4/20. As of Dec. 31/20 PGGM had $347B in assets, one of the 15th largest public pension plans in the World. PGGM now holds 79,048 shares ($64.5M) of Tesla. Small sum considering PGGM's total assets, however they now have Tesla, testing the waters before jumping in with two feet. Bershire Hathaway started investing in Apple in 2016 and now has X100 times the amount of Apple shares today than their original investment. Once the big firms are hooked, they turn into a solid growing catch. Tesla joining the S&P500 cannot be overstated.

 

[UncaNed]

Dude, there's a bear sugaring in your pool.

Thus answering an age-old question.

 

[PeterJA]

Add Nissan to the list of automakers that didn't like Apple's terms for collaboration.

Apple held talks with Nissan on autonomous car that have since ended | Seeking Alpha

• The talks are said to have soured when Apple asked the car maker to manufacture Apple-branded cars, which would basically make Nissan a hardware supplier, the paper said.

When's that Apple Car comin' again?

 

[ClimateOptimst]

The Murdoch paper here ran a story about snow on solar panels being a problem in Germany, and in an election campaign our Prime Minister claimed EVs would "ruin the weekend"..
I'm sure snow on solar panels isn't a major problem in Germany, it certainly isn't in Australia.
But clean energy and transport needs to be able to overcome any false narrative that is thrown at it, even when the narrative is untrue, bordering on comical.
So a Tesla doesn't involve any compromise on range/performance/ aesthetics and fast charging, for good reasons, the "snow on solar panels" / "ruin the weekend" crowd would gleefully and repeatedly point out any deficiency.
The one remaining issue is price, Tesla is working on that, but if makes sense to solve it last, as solving price first would have caused compromises, which would have provided ammunition for critics.
I would like to assure everyone that so far I have been lucky, I haven't had any snow on my solar panels, and my Model 3 hasn't ruined any of my weekends.

Only problem with snow & solar panels I've seen was today when about a ton of yesterday's 9" snowfall slid off my roof all at once once the sun melted out the base. Was glad it happened so i could get back to producing power but also glad i wasn't standing under the avalanche!

 

[UnknownSoldier]

Google lensed your house. I would take that picture down maybe I should have told you this by private message? Sorry

I don't see the problem here? We just need to identify ourselves as TMC members and we ought to be able to get in right? I just want to sit down and have a beer sometime.

 

[bkp_duke]

~~~~~~As ALREADY MENTIONED by @Right_Said_Fred , this is the TSLA/Tesla thread, and the weekend is now over. So, regardless of what YOU think important, discussions of Chinese sociopolitical currents & ilk, discussions of Bitcoins & ilk, discussions of snow in Queensland and so forth now has ENDED~~~~~~

For the record . . . tomorrow is a trading holiday. . .

 

[2daMoon]

For the record . . . tomorrow is a trading holiday. . .

Who's bright idea was that?

Will the weekend never end? (here I was thinking we were safely past Groundhog Day)

 

[dl003]

Add Nissan to the list of automakers that didn't like Apple's terms for collaboration.

Apple held talks with Nissan on autonomous car that have since ended | Seeking Alpha

• The talks are said to have soured when Apple asked the car maker to manufacture Apple-branded cars, which would basically make Nissan a hardware supplier, the paper said.

When's that Apple Car comin' again?

If Apple has to come to Nissan for hardware, its stockholders should be very worried.

 

[ByeByeJohnny]

Who's bright idea was that?

Can someone let us know if it was the former or the new president that decided on this holiday so we know who to be mad at this time?

 

[PeterJA]

This man's humor is a bit insufferable, but his thesis is interesting.

He says a crash in Bitcoin's price may cause Tesla to report a big quarterly loss, crashing TSLA to a great buying opportunity. He claims this is because accounting rules consider a drop in the value of Tesla's Bitcoin holding to be a loss, even if Tesla doesn't sell the holding.

Do the accountants here (such as @The Accountant) concur?

Edit: A Bitcoin crash below the price Tesla paid may be less likely now if, as predicted by some pundits, Tesla's purchase starts a trend of big companies buying Bitcoin.

 

[MP3Mike]

He says a crash in Bitcoin's price may cause Tesla to report a big quarterly loss, crashing TSLA to a great buying opportunity. He claims this is because accounting rules consider a drop in the value of Tesla's Bitcoin holding to be a loss, even if Tesla doesn't sell the holding.

Do the accountants here (such as @The Accountant) concur?

Tesla said as much in their 10k filing. (It also said that they can't recognize a gain unless they sell. So it is sort of lopsided.)

 

[Singuy]

Tesla said as much in their 10k filing. (It also said that they can't recognize a gain unless they sell. So it is sort of lopsided.)

Well Tesla gets the tax benefits from the loss reported, but are required to pay that benefit back if or when BTC goes back up to its original value.

 

[dhanson865]

So do you think this software fix was 1. effective in avoiding a recall and 2. sufficient, from the customer's perspective, to correct the problem?

apparently the affected packs owners won’t even notice the issue. If I read correctly the conclusion.

I could suggest you read Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software which is a thread with a similar length and age as this one.

Sure the fix might be sufficient going forward but you have to acknowledge that people suffered for several years between the beginning of the issue and the final fix (if the fix is final yet).

You don't need to read 700+ pages of that thread but reading the first page and the last few pages would be a decent start.

Asking for cliffs notes is admitting that you didn't read Explaining Changes post-firmware 2019.16 Regarding Range Loss | wk057's SkieNET which literally is the cliffs notes for the 700 page thread and is what MC3OZ was pointing to in the first place.

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

For anyone who is particularly optimistic (or just curious) and is eagerly awaiting this, the 14th has been mentioned as the date because it's been the 14th the last few years. But from the filing history it seems clear that it's the first day the market is open after the 13th. I suspect that means we'll get it premarket on Tuesday.

This man's humor is a bit insufferable, but his thesis is interesting.

He says a crash in Bitcoin's price may cause Tesla to report a big quarterly loss, crashing TSLA to a great buying opportunity. He claims this is because accounting rules consider a drop in the value of Tesla's Bitcoin holding to be a loss, even if Tesla doesn't sell the holding.

Do the accountants here (such as @The Accountant) concur?

Edit: A Bitcoin crash below the price Tesla paid may be less likely now if, as predicted by some pundits, Tesla's purchase starts a trend of big companies buying Bitcoin.

There’s no way that can be correct. That would be saying Tesla has to take a loss on their investment anytime Bitcoin goes below the break even line....which could be multiple times over the course of a single year.

let’s say Bitcoin is above break even(33k) this quarter, then below break even next quarter, but then goes back above break even the quarter after....and then back below break even the quarter after that. Tesla would have to report a double loss under the scenario which makes no financial sense. You can only post a loss once.....which is when you sell the investment

 

[MC3OZ]

 

[Singuy]

There’s no way that can be correct. That would be saying Tesla has to take a loss on their investment anytime Bitcoin goes below the break even line....which could be multiple times over the course of a single year.

let’s say Bitcoin is above break even(33k) this quarter, then below break even next quarter, but then goes back above break even the quarter after....and then back below break even the quarter after that. Tesla would have to report a double loss under the scenario which makes no financial sense. You can only post a loss once.....which is when you sell the investment

No Tesla just reports a loss the first time, then gains the second time, then loss the third time. The tax savings and payment will go back and forth between loss and break even.

It'll be -33k Q1
+33k Q2
-33k Q3
then +33k Q4.

So at the end of the day it's still a net zero on Gaap earnings for the year, not -66k.

 

[Ipe]

A Huge Fund Bought Tesla, Apple, and Microsoft Stock. Here’s What It Sold.
PGGM of Zeist, Netherlands initiated a position in Tesla in Q4/20. As of Dec. 31/20 PGGM had $347B in assets, one of the 15th largest public pension plans in the World. PGGM now holds 79,048 shares ($64.5M) of Tesla. Small sum considering PGGM's total assets, however they now have Tesla, testing the waters before jumping in with two feet. Bershire Hathaway started investing in Apple in 2016 and now has X100 times the amount of Apple shares today than their original investment. Once the big firms are hooked, they turn into a solid growing catch. Tesla joining the S&P500 cannot be overstated.

I make monthly contributions to this fund on behalf of my employees. Happy to hear they put it to good use.

 

[Yuha]

For any vaguely computer nerdy folks, they essentially applied the concept of parity used in RAID storage to voltage readings on a module to be able to reconstruct the "real" value when a single cell group is reporting incorrectly but the correct "total" value of the module it's in is known.

It's a clever software workaround that avoids Tesla having to actually replace the failing hardware with working hardware.... though it does still leave a very very minor amount of genuine range loss compared to an otherwise identical pack not having the problem.

On the Battery Day, they said that they improved the formation phase by using techniques learned from their vehicle BMS. This could be at least a part of that.