Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Norwalk79]

Literally how do they do that at last second? Forcing it below 700? In two seconds?

I call it PURE LUCK.

 

[Curt Renz]

And yet the public cannot see that our 'trusted' hosts are really just puppets controlled by the puppet master behind the curtain. And that puppet master is controlled by a puppet master in another city.

It reminds me of that scene near the end of The Wizard of Oz.

 

[Norwalk79]

Yeah? I worried about the new cell design and whether they could get it right since it is so different than the good ol batteries. But now I don't and here is why.
All these battery companies are setting up lines to produce the 4680's. These companies didn't wake up and scratch their balls and go have a beer with elon before lunch, and then agree over a burger to make batteries different in the afternoon.
If you read every damn thing out there about Tesla you've read about how each company covers their arses by not trusting anyone else. Before LG or Panasonic or umteen other companies will throw BILLION$ into making a manufacturing plant they are going to want to create their own PROOF.
I am quite sure they were allowed into the initial production line to watch the whole process. They had their eggiest of heads come and crawl around with their tape measures and thermometers. And then were allowed to take a sample directly from the line and go do all sorts of tests on them, not only to see if the success rate was high, but also to see that.
The gist of it is if there were production problems the major battery makers wouldn't be lining up to produce these cells.

Best post of the day, A+++++

 

[lafrisbee]

Literally how do they do that at last second? Forcing it below 700? In two seconds?

look, they really didn't care today. Today was just done to test the water for tomorrow. I'm sure all day long they set up little selling and buying scenarios to see how the investors feel. It's their job.
And on the weeks they seem to not be trying for maxpain? They could be holding so many of both sides of the contract that they've shifted maxpain away from reality.. Or they could just recognise the spring needs to be let go so they buy the upside and let it rip to however high it will go.
I don't know their strategies...I just know that the Maxpain manipulation is the only thing that can most often explain the wild gyrations getting suckers to bet (and also disguise that the MM's could keep it within a dollar of maxpain all week if they wanted to), only to end the week within a buck of maxpain.

 

[traxila]

Can you TLDR for me?

Market-on-Close (MOC) Order: Definition, Risks, and Benefits

A market-on-close (MOC) order is a non-limit order that is executed as close to the end of the market day as possible.

www.investopedia.com

From 3:45pm to 4pm big players, or anyone really but mostly big players, will put in orders, indications to buy or sell, for the auction that occurs at the end of the day. The price is pushed up or down based on demand and supply. The price is finally set just a moment before the close.

I know sounds wacky. Did not even know this stuff existed until the S&P inclusion and I have gambling my money away in the market for decades!

 

[lafrisbee]

Let’s me officially declare the Tesla WAR has began on Feb 9th and will continue at least till the end of 2021 delivery and earning on Jan 27th 2022. Toss all the old charts because they will no longer valid with the unique Tesla rocket with SO MANY enemies.

Consider that the $699.60 closing meets the target $700 similar to 500,000 delivery off by 0.01% at 499,950. I saw that whenever the price goes up there is an immediate selling to pull it down. This is a continuous war. So, all Tesla comrades hang on to kill misinfo, bad rumors, FUD… and

Tell everybody to invest in Tesla, the most glorious story in 2021 besides the GameStop fairy tale

1) Remember that Tesla has the most enemies who want to kill Tesla for good before it fully develop all of its advantages. This is similar to Russia wants to kill its opposition leader for good. Here is a limited list of its enemies:

This time is the beginning of the end of 100 yr old oil industries/nations/ICE cars manufacturers and the start of the new fields of Clean and renewable Energy/Storage, Electric Vehicles, FSD subscription and Robotaxis/delivery.

Tesla is the most advanced Leader in all of the above fields and will become the next Amazon, Apple and Google, has the most enemy, therefore, Tesla shorts, VW and oil companies/industry/nations have started to give one final push to kill before Tesla crush competition with its lowest price highest value $25K model 2 by the end this year 2021 together with Berlin Giga already has 8 Giga Press for model 3 and Y + ready to make new 4680 battery with $1B incentive, 2,500 Semi trucks in Texas, FSD and insurance started by 2nd Quarter of this year. The Solar Energy Storage of Tesla Power Walls and MegaWatts will advance along the way since Texas lost power 4 days in freezing temp, rolling shutdown in California and NorthEastern states losing power during heavy snow periods.

2) All other funds are jealous of the rocket Tesla flying too high making their investment look bad compared to Cathie Wood's funds
3) All Tesla shorts hate Elon & Tesla because they lost $40B in 2020 alone in shorting Tesla. They will never quit trying until they die. Trust me on this.
4) Microsoft Bill Gates did not deny (silent when asked) that he shorted Tesla. So horrible.

a little verbose doncha think? 3 years ago maybe you'd seem to be just a little paranoid, but today no one is fighting to destroy Tesla. Right now big oil and the ICE vehicle industry is Germany at D-Day +20. They are engaged in a strategic retreat. Some of the stats out there talk of the Hundreds of millions of dollars that the oil industry rakes in everyday, and if those two big businesses can delay EV's another day then it is financially wise for them to do everything they can to slow Tesla.
Tesla ain't gonna die.

 

[Norwalk79]

President Joe Biden signed a $1.9 trillion coronavirus relief package into law Thursday afternoon, 1 day earlier than Friday as predicted. This will save the EV stocks and Tesla another down day.

Chip stocks jumped sharply Thursday after China’s semiconductor trade association formed a new group to work with their U.S. counterparts to ease recent trade tensions between the two countries. SO, the shorts cannot use the chip shortage as a cause to short the EV stocks.

 

[LiveLong&Profit]

We’re going to read back through all this years from now laughing at ourselves for caring about such little matters because the SP will have expanded so much beyond today.

Hopefully, many of our future selves will be immensely wiser, kinder and improved in comparison to the present state - and freed from pecuniary problems.
Thus it follows that if what I do now is not laughably stupid, silly, childish and unwise in comparison to a distant me, then the future looks bleak.

 

[john94si]

So my 9yr old just told me Roblox just went public a few days ago.. And i see ARK bought a ton of it.. he will be buying into that also next week.

 

[buttershrimp]

look, they really didn't care today. Today was just done to test the water for tomorrow. I'm sure all day long they set up little selling and buying scenarios to see how the investors feel. It's their job.
And on the weeks they seem to not be trying for maxpain? They could be holding so many of both sides of the contract that they've shifted maxpain away from reality.. Or they could just recognise the spring needs to be let go so they buy the upside and let it rip to however high it will go.
I don't know their strategies...I just know that the Maxpain manipulation is the only thing that can most often explain the wild gyrations getting suckers to bet (and also disguise that the MM's could keep it within a dollar of maxpain all week if they wanted to), only to end the week within a buck of maxpain.

coincidence then ? no one attempted to pushed it below 700 in last second? because wow, it looked pretty amazing from here... but I know nothing about that sort of thing

 

[Chunky Jr.]

I may be wrong, but aren't dry electrodes and 4680 independent? From my understanding, the real key to 4680 is tabless to reduce heat, and the dry version is an extra layer of goodness that can be done in a subsequent revision

 

[chronoreverse]

I may be wrong, but aren't dry electrodes and 4680 independent? From my understanding, the real key to 4680 is tabless to reduce heat, and the dry version is an extra layer of goodness that can be done in a subsequent revision

Yes. DBE allows Tesla to make the cells faster and using less energy but isn't necessary for Plaid+ level 4680 cells. It lets them do it cheaper and scale faster though (if it works as planned). Perhaps this is why the price was increased on the Plaid+?

 

[floydboy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1370080030420840453

Dear lord just how many orders are they getting for the Plaid + S ?????

I've heard through other channels that demand for Plaid and Plaid + have been through the roof since the refresh was unveiled

Looks like the SEMI is coming sooner. I wonder if it's going to use 4680s? It'll have a voracious appetite for available supply if it does.

 

[Norwalk79]

Hah, it popped over $700 just barely for like a minute before the MM's forced it back down. They sure are trying hard today!!!!

Can you explain/prove that the MM's forced it back down. I thought that was done by the forever Tesla shorts/day traders?

 

[MP3Mike]

I may be wrong, but aren't dry electrodes and 4680 independent? From my understanding, the real key to 4680 is tabless to reduce heat, and the dry version is an extra layer of goodness that can be done in a subsequent revision

In theory yes. In practicality no. The wet electrode process takes way more space than the dry process and Tesla didn't build the wet process in the pilot plant. So it is DBE or bust. (Of course Panasonic or LG could make 4680 cells with a wet electrode if they wanted to, or didn't have access to use the DBE IP.)

 

[MP3Mike]

Looks like the SEMI is coming sooner. I wonder if it's going to use 4680s? It'll have a voracious appetite for available supply if it does.

The rumor is that it is using 2170s from GigaNevada for now. And once GigaTexas is up and running the production of the Semi will move there.

 

[RobStark]

EU plans to make battery cells for 7 mln electric cars by 2025 - Handelsblatt

The European Union aims to produce battery cells for at least 7 million electric cars a year by 2025, the economy ministers of Germany and France and a top EU official wrote in an article for the Handelsblatt business daily. As part of its plan to become climate neutral by 2050, the EU wants to...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[Artful Dodger]

I may be wrong, but aren't dry electrodes and 4680 independent? From my understanding, the real key to 4680 is tabless to reduce heat, and the dry version is an extra layer of goodness that can be done in a subsequent revision

Mostly, but the two cell characteristics interact with eachother. DBE can be 2x thicker than and electrode made with a conventional wet slurry process. You have to engineer a different thickness of electrode in a tabless wet slurry cell. And it's the engineering and testing that takes time and causes delays.

Better to just produce a known-to-be-good design in massive quantities. It's this scale where the economies come in. Dicking around with temporary projects ain't moving the chains. And Tesla is playing the long game (sharing patents).

Cheers!

 

[LiveLong&Profit]

The idea that Germany, France and the EU will simply welcome their Silicon Valley Overlords is just plain silly.

The strategy of stalling by tinkering with EU rules will most certainly be used. And it will be somewhat effective in the short and medium time frame.

On the other hand: Much of Northern Europe, including large segments in Germany, are pro-innovation, and pro a greener, cleaner future. Some of the old propaganda/programming has been that the greener, cleaner future is just not possible yet.
BUT: For each Tesla, for each Solar Roof and each PowerWall, PowerPack or MegaPack, Tesla is showing that yes, the green&clean future is not only possible, but in fact the best possible future. So Tesla is gaining mind share weekly.

Stall 2-3 years: Sure. Stall 5 years: difficult but maybe. More than that: Very unlikely.

 

[MC3OZ]

Wanna bet if VW on Power Day will say their QuantumScape solid state batteries are ready and they are starting to build the factories that will make their EVs the lowest cost in the industry?

Here’s What VW Could Have in Store for Its First-Ever Power Day

Wolfsburg hints at battery tech breakthroughs in upcoming vehicles, as it takes a page from Tesla.

www.autoweek.com

My take on Battery Day is Tesla aiming for 3 TWh of cell production by 2030, and cells at $50-$60 per kWh no later than 2025.

Solid state batteries have some advantages, but we don't know what the Capex costs for production are, how quickly they can scale, and the ultimate cost per kWh.

When the cell costs are in the $50-$60 per kWh range, other factors become important, eventually the cost and availability of raw materials is a big factor.
Other things like structural battery packs, castings, heat pump, , Octovalve, software, FSD become a factor.

There is room in the market for both VW and Tesla, I expect both to do well.

When Tesla makes cars in Germany that are exported to the rest of the EU, that ticks a lot of boxes in terms of jobs and exports.
Encouraging Tesla to build factories elsewhere isn't a good idea. there are plenty of EU countries that would welcome a Tesla factory.

It is good to have competition, and I expect VW to prove worthy competitors, but not competitive enough to stop Tesla growing at 50% per year.