Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[StealthP3D]

Sorry if I’m repeating someone else’s idea, but regarding advertising ...I agree that, given current demand, Tesla advertising it’s cars seems unnecessary and a waste of money. But eventually advertising FSD may be very worthwhile, both in terms of educating people about its benefits and safety as well as increasing the take rate. There‘s plenty of room to grow that and it’s basically pure margin. Most advertising targets potential new customers. This would bring in revenue from both new and current customers.

I know the subject of advertising has been over-covered but I just wanted to add a final summary of my thoughts:

Advertising for traditional cars adds around $2000 to the cost of each car. That's money the consumer pays.

Tesla's strategy is to make a better product for less. Adding the $2000 savings from not advertising will make it a lot less. That gives them more pricing power. When offering a better product for considerably less money only dumb people, people biased against Tesla or people with special needs that Tesla cannot fill will choose the poorer value.

That leaves Tesla with the more discriminating, more informed customers. This is good from a PR perspective - smart financially savvy people who are good with their money drive a Tesla. It's also good from an insurance perspective - rational, even-keeled people are less likely to be in an auto accident. It probably has a small positive impact on warranty costs too. I also think people will appreciate they are not having to fund a propaganda (advertising) campaign. That's more goodwill. The message it sends is Tesla is the real deal.

It's hard to put a price on some of these intangibles but the big one is the larger potential margin/lower selling price. The only way I can see it making sense for Tesla to advertise is in the unlikely event that the competition can match the value Tesla offers. Currently, cars like the Mach-e are not as good of a value and are almost certainly being sold at a loss, even counting the value of the emission credits they earn. So I don't see this changing anytime soon. The longer Tesla can postpone the need to advertise, hopefully indefinitely, the better. Elon believes, and I agree, the product should be such a good value it sells itself. I think Tesla will be able to achieve this while maintaining industry-leading margins without any advertising campaigns. Once you start to advertise, I'm not sure it's very easy to go back - the damage to your brand has already been done.

 

[SunCatcher]

Used to work in that building and that might be difficult getting something the size of a CT up to that floor. Maybe if they did a virtual set on the ground sure. Though I have seen a car sitting on it's side in the hallway outside the Fallon studio but that was a smaller sedan.

If the CT doesn't fit onto the set, they could always do what Spinal Tap did with their miniature Stonehenge. Shrink the CT, and have Elon show his disapproval (as part of the skit). Now that would be right down SNL's alley.
Oh, and more free advertising!

 

[StealthP3D]

It's kind of weird. Every time I see a Tesla article from Teslarati, or Electrek, etc etc posted on facebook, there will be thousands of likes and maybe 8 laughing emojis. Then you read the comments it's 100% negative.

I really believe a lot of them are actual bots. I think this is a bigger problem than most are aware. Russian bots, oil industry bots, etc.

 

[Opus BC fan]

Weekend OT:

Hope it gives you a smile...

[All credit to the artist that did this...it works on multiple levels]

 

[2daMoon]

Who can get their hands on a vehicle with Chevy's Adaptive Cruise system installed?

I'd like to see if it could be spoofed with a picture of Alfred E. Neuman pinned to the headrest in place of a face.

 

[StealthP3D]

EVs change that and still contribute to wear and need to pay for maintenance. There ain't no such thing as a free road.

Clean air isn't free either.

I just renewed the tabs on my 2018 Model 3 and 2010 F-150 4X4:

Model 3: $293
F-150: $105

It should look like this:

Model 3: $100 plus $100 road tax = $200
F-150: $100 plus $100 Health Care tax plus $75 carbon tax plus $25 GVWR tax= $300

We continue to subsidize fossil fuels while saying EV's must pay their share.

 

[dhanson865]

Here’s my charges for 0 kWh net electricity. $5.48 for the grid and the rest for account services and tax.
View attachment 656724

$21 a month here for 0 kWh

we have cheap electricity here on a per kWh basis but high monthly fees disuade reducing consumption by buying efficient appliances or by going solar PV.

That's why https://www.tesla.com/energy/design shows my monthly savings never getting rid of the last $20 no matter how big a system I select. (the site actually shows $10* and then explains you have to check your monthly bill to see what that number really is).

 

[Nocturnal]

Not really in this case though.

ICE drivers literally pay by the mile via a gasoline tax... and that $ goes directly to funding roads.

EV drivers do not.

So that missing $ has to come from somewhere

Most states have chose to get it via a tax at registration time, since that keeps it car-related by putting the funds into the DMV fees kitty which (in my state, and most AFAIK) also specifically goes toward road funding.




I'm not sure how things are taxed where you live.

But here there's no special "electricity tax" that goes to "grid maintenance"

Not sure I've heard of that anywhere else.

We just pay normal sales tax same as if I bought anything else, and it goes into the general fund like all sales tax.

But since electricity is charged per kwh delivered generally I'm unsure how it'd be "more than your share" anyway- it should be exactly your share.

(on top of that- in my case anyway, by owning an EV I get access to special ToU billing... so I actually spend less on electricity than I did before I got an EV)

Yes there absolutely are. For reference building electricity rates in utility billing systems is my day job. Franchise taxes (city/town/state/county/other) are charged per usage, kWH in this case. It depends on the region. Some will just say "you owe us 15 cents per kWh. Others will break that down to say 5 cents of generation charges, 4 cents of distribution charges, etc. Then there is typically a flat fee (I've never had a client without one) regardless of what you use.

EV drivers are paying more into the entire system, which represents a savings to other users. And then we have the franchise taxes. So maybe I spent X less on fuel taxes than my neighbor but Y more on electrical tax/support for the grid. It's not an exact comparison because roads are public and the grid is private or pseudo-private, but it is a trade off.

 

[Silent Ludicrosy]

With all this Twitter talk I decided to update my “Twitter followers per car company” graph. No surprise, Tesla is exponentially increasing its lead while other companies are flat or slightly climbing.

* This is an unscientific analysis. I only graph companies with >1 million followers. If a company has multiple regional accounts I use the highest one to prevent double counting followers. Please leave a voicemail at (248)434-5508 with any feedback/complaints to avoid cluttering this thread.

 

[RobStark]

Advertising for traditional cars adds around $2000 to the cost of each car. That's money the consumer pays.

Currently, cars like the Mach-e are not as good of a value and are almost certainly being sold at a loss, even counting the value of the emission credits they earn.

The choice to advertise isn't spend $0 per car sold or $2k.

Tesla could spend $50 per car this year and have an advertising budget of $50M. And no you don't have to spend $5M per 30 second ad in the Super Bowl. There are cheaper more effective choices.

Tesla first paid advertisements would generate a lot free press on top of that. More so if they are good/clever ads. How about educating the public on AutoPilot and FSD? And increase sales of FSD.

This would be more effective than the "advertising" of talking heads taking a dump on Tesla because of the Texas crash or the Chinese Auto Show lady.

How about ads in Japan so Tesla can sell more than 5k units in Japan in 2021, establish a beachhead and put pressure on Toyota?

No, Mach-e is almost certainly not being sold at a loss.

 

[ZsoZso]

Weekend OT:
View attachment 656733
Hope it gives you a smile...

[All credit to the artist that did this...it works on multiple levels]

Is that Tesla's response to the CR safety-loophole video ?
Showing how to defeat the Ford / GM driver-eye monitoring system !?

 

[dhanson865]

Is that Tesla's response to the CR safety-loophole video ?
Showing how to defeat the Ford / GM driver-eye monitoring system !?

if that is a serious question it is in reference to Big Hero 6 (2014) - IMDb

 

[ReddyLeaf]

What are the numbers for your application?

I just did a quick tally and came up with currently paying $200/year for the ICE vehicles I own. That seems in line with what some were reporting their states charging for EVs. (this was based upon 20K miles per year, 20 MPG average between vehicles, and $0.20 tax per gallon)

And what about those of us with a 2011 Leaf (equivalent to a 50 mpg Prius) that drive less than 5000 mi/yr? Yup, we’re getting screwed.

 

[Discoducky]

Not really in this case though.

ICE drivers literally pay by the mile via a gasoline tax... and that $ goes directly to funding roads.

I like to think of what the folks riding horses thought, who paid taxes on horse feed ,when cars started driving on their roads.

We need to incentivize less pollution. EV's accomplish this, and more so when powered by sustainable energy. So let's incentivize cleaner energy generation. I'd imagine everyone that likes to breathe clean air can agree that clean air is nice to breathe. Making a plan to get their is the next step. A staged plan is a pragmatic solution and usually agreeable in some form or fashion. I'd like to see it happen sooner rather than later.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Two observations here - not refreshed X's, shame, would have been very nice

Secondly, the NASA branding is removed from the cars - what's all that about?

You mean the NASA "meatball" logo on the Driver's (left-side) door? It's still there. Here are 2 images taken of Model SpaceX during the Crew Demo-2 launch in May 2020: (astronauts Bob & Doug)

Left side of Model SpaceX, May 2020 w/o "meatball": (Dragon on Pad 39A in the backgrnd)

Right side, May 2020: (on the ride out to Pad 39A) w. NASA "meatball"

Not to worry; all is well...

Cheers!

 

[Artful Dodger]

It seems to me that the recent change to the solar/powerwall configuration is laying the basis for a change eventually supporting Vehicle to Home or to Grid Across the product line.

This can’t make Tesla aspirants feel good.

Tesla already stated on a recent Earnings Call that european Models 3 already have all the hardware necessary to do V2H and it would just take a software change to enable the feature?

Have you noticed how Telsa is becoming a licenced grid provider in several european countries? VPPs will include cars: (its the bty chem changes we've been waiting for)

Tesla may become power provider in Germany – pv magazine ... https://www.pv-magazine.com › 2020/08/06 › tesla-ma...

Tesla Puts New Emphasis On Becoming An Electricity ... https://cleantechnica.com › 2020/09/09 › tesla-puts-new...

 

[Artful Dodger]

Elon to host SNL on May 8th...

Options with a May 9th expiration should prove funny...

Lol, you mean Friday, May 9, 2025? Weekly options contracts aren't available yet for expiries that far out. LEAPS generally become available for the 3rd Friday (May 16) and should become available in a few years.

#Prediction for May 9, 2025 TSLA SP: $4,070 per share
#Prediction for Jun 20, 2025 TSLA SP: $4,309 per share (1st LEAPS to become available for Q2 2025)

 

[Lessmog]

Just read way more comments than I care for.

Some thinks Elon is a right wing nut case and human garbage

Majority seems to think he is just not going to be funny due to being unrelatable (billionaire who makes thing only nerds care about). I mean he's definitely no professional actor/actress who normally host. Elon stumbles his words, stutters a lot, and talk technicalities.

But his dad jokes are sometimes sublime.

 

[22522]

For grid control, some utilities are just looking for the ability to remove your home from the grid at their prerogative. It is a more grid stability friendly approach. Tesla should support and promote this mode of operation as a transitional relationship.

 

[Lessmog]

Elons hate skyrocketed after Bernie decides to use Elon as the poster child anti union billionaire to demonize. This is why I can't vote for anyone blaming the entire world's problem on a class of people. This goes with both sides. This kind of mentality sure gets you vote but at the expense of humanity's progress towards unity.

And that other millionaire with political ambitions, Robert Reich, also never misses a chance to publicly dump on Elon. Both quite happy to suckle others' money and owning mansions meanwhile but never even try to defend their own hypocricy. Reich allegedly charges tens of thousands for giving speeches and demands first class accomodation and travel to do it. None are skint.