Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Singuy]

So Anonymous is confused with itself?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1401265020554539010

https://twitter.com/x/status/1401231247058296839

Did anonymous get hacked? It's on their YouTube channel. But yeah I was wondering if GJ was behind the video because it was like his talking points. Can't believe the video even said "competition is coming"...lol like anonymous gives a rats ass about Teslas competition if it was a real address to Elon.

Edit:guess it's not their official YouTube channel.

~~~Using this post to create a MODERATOR warning for ALL (a good number of you are guilty of this): Do ===>NOT<=== use the Edit feature to state, in effect, “The entirety of this post is erroneous”. Rather, YOU delete your post and, as a courtesy, state as the reason something along the lines of “Apologies; I was wrong.”~~~

 

[Joe F]

I suggested nothing of the sort. And don’t pigeonhole people.

And I got tons of disagrees here when I simply pointed out the damage Elon is doing to the crypto community and the enemies he is creating. Since then, the FUD from the crypto community has gotten even worse along with Elon’s taunting of the community. I personally know of multiple cancels of real Tesla orders. Yes, demand still outpaces supply, but this is not good for the future.

Your words: “Damage Elon is doing to the crypto community“

Damage how? Tweeting something cryptic that caused Bitcoin to tank?

News flash: Crypto does that well enough on its own, again, before Tesla bought into Bitcoin. Your “simply pointing out the damage Elon is doing” indicates you believe what you wrote, else why would you have written it. Hence the disagrees you received.

 

[Beltsbear]

Your words: “Damage Elon is doing to the crypto community“

Damage how? Tweeting something cryptic that caused Bitcoin to tank?

News flash: Crypto does that well enough on its own, again, before Tesla bought into Bitcoin. Your “simply pointing out the damage Elon is doing” indicates you believe what you wrote, else why would you have written it.

You said something I said about price. I did not. damage to the community is spreading FUD as he has done. Then he rubs salt into the wound.

if you ask even college educated people which brand of car is most likely to catch on fire, way too many of them will say Tesla. That number should be close to zero since Tesla has the LEAST fires of any major car brand. But it is not due to FUD. FUD is bad, coming from crypto assholes or Elon. It is damaging. And now both communities are FUDing each other. Elon is not always right.

 

[dl003]

This is coming from someone who doesn't like Bitcoin: Stop saying this, it's ignorant and inaccurate. It's delusional to think the value of fiat currencies or even gold are based on less abstract or ethereal justifications than cryptocurrencies. You're living a comfortable lie just because it's been that way all your life.

By the way, for the record, i was against Tesla's involvement in Bitcoin from day one -- i thought it was a distraction from and indeed somewhat in opposition to Tesla's core mission. I got loads of thumbs down from the "ELON IS INHERENTLY NEVER WRONG" brigade.

I was right again.

I was also against buying BTC, obviously not upset enough to sell TSLA, but still. I think the point here is there are differences between intended purposes and practical purposes. As BTC is touted as a currency by proponents, it is supposed to be able to perform every function of fiats. But in reality, what has BTC really been used for by the average Joe? I made this argument 2 years ago and its pretty much in the same place today. Sure, the value has gone up a lot. A lot more institutional and retail participation. But, at the end of the day, people still dont buy food or pay rent with it. Its practical purposes do not include exchanging for goods and services in any meaning capacity and its not like we are still the early stage of adoption. It has become valuable and will continue in that direction, but what terminal uses are there for BTC (and most other cryptos)?

 

[dl003]

You said something I said about price. I did not. damage to the community is spreading FUD as he has done. Then he rubs salt into the wound.

if you ask even college educated people which brand of car is most likely to catch on fire, way too many of them will say Tesla. That number should be close to zero since Tesla has the LEAST fires of any major car brand. But it is not due to FUD. FUD is bad, coming from crypto assholes or Elon. It is damaging. And now both communities are FUDing each other. Elon is not always right.

What are these FUDs you are talking about? Can you really spread FUDs about an asset that has no fundamentals? Do you really think bitcoiners rushed into it because they thought it was energy efficient?

 

[MP3Mike]

I will say that pissing off a lot of coders when you have a node siting with a billion dollars of crypto on it, is a nice stress test for your network. If Tesla is not compromised in the next few weeks we can be pretty sure their security is robust.

What makes you think that Tesla has the bulk of their Bitcoins online and not in cold storage? Especially when they aren't planning on selling them in the short term.

 

[Beltsbear]

What are these FUDs you are talking about? Can you really spread FUDs about an asset that has no fundamentals? Do you really think bitcoiners rushed into it because they thought it was energy efficient?

Well apparently Elon figured out a way. This conversation is going nowhere. My point, which you turn around into something else is Elon is causing people, RIGHT OR WRONG to spread more FUD about Tesla. And the FUD level as I predicted has risen to new highs and more different groups of people are participating in it. I have called them crypto assholes and know it is wrong, and have personally fought anti Tesla FUD in the Bitcoin community. But go on and imply things about me Personally Instead.

 

[dl003]

Well apparently Elon figured out a way. This conversation is going nowhere. My point, which you turn around into something else is Elon is causing people, RIGHT OR WRONG to spread more FUD about Tesla. And the FUD level as I predicted has risen to new highs and more different groups of people are participating in it. I have called them crypto assholes and know it is wrong, and have personally fought anti Tesla FUD in the Bitcoin community. But go on and imply things about me Personally Instead.

you said he damaged the crypto community by spreading FUDs about cryptos. As far as I know, the only thing remotely negative he said was BTC lead to dirty fuel consumption. Please feel free to educate me on the other “FUDs” Im not aware of.

 

[Radish11]

Looks like Rivian is planning an IPO. Anyone considering buying some shares?

 

[Artful Dodger]

Over the past week, there have been some indications that Tesla may be considering a Rights Offering for existing shareholders to allow them to buy a certain number of TSLA shares at a reduced pice to compensate for recent dilution due to a series of cap raises.

Let's take an example starting point of July 2018 to estimate dilution since then. In the 10-Q released shortly after the 2018 Q2 conf. call, Tesla management stated that 852,965,720 shares were in existance. By the 2021 Q1 10-Q, we were up to 963,330,448 shares. That's about a 12.94% dilution over that time period:

Aug 03, 2018 SEC filing: 10-Q​

Working from the notion that Telsa would authorize a Rights offering to match the dilution which occurred over a certain time frame, its then possible Tesla could offer investors who have held shares continuously from July 2018 (in this example) to purchase an additional 12.94% of shares, to restore their proportional stake in the company from that time until now.

To extend this arguement, its also possible that Tesla would price this hypothetical Rights offering for July 2018 shareholders at the same closing share price from that time (ie: the Closing SP for TSLA on Aug 03. 2018 was $69.63 (SP adjusted for the 5:1 split on Aug 31, 2020 ):

In this (again very hypothetical) scenario, Tesla would offer a Rights grant to Shareholders of Record (or Beneficial Shareholders, with documentation from their Broker) giving them the choice to purchase 12.94% more shares than they held on Aug 03, 2018 at a purchase price of $69.63

This is just an example, and it uses offering and pricing dates from Tesla's 10-Q filings. It may well be that Tesla would instead use dates and SPs from the dates of discreet Cap Raise offerings (for example, the Sep 01, 2020 offering), and create the Rights offering is such a way that there would be various "tiers" of rights to purchase stock, with tier dates going all the way back to the IPO.

But keep in mind that Elon's 2018 CEO comp plan has also caused dilution, as do the quarterly stock options provided to salaried employees, officers and directors of the company. So it's difficult to predict how Tesla might structure such a Rights offering.

At any rate, please feel free to add you ideas to these ramblings, and especially your experience with Rights offerings (I have none).

And pardon me if I don't reply. You may be among the many who are now blocked for 'endless-Crypto-off-topic' comments. Sorry that I can't see your Tesla-related content if you are otherwise blocked (its not a filter; its a hammer). Always best to stay on topic though...

Cheers!

 

[Beltsbear]

Looks like Rivian is planning an IPO. Anyone considering buying some shares?

Rivian will sell everything they can make. The problem is valuation. If they IPO at let’s say 1/10 of Tesla , it would be a hard pass. They will be so far behind Tesla and unable to grow at any rate like Tesla long term. So if they are priced reasonably based on possible 2024 sales I would consider them. But they won’t be. It will be based on a fantasy of growth that won’t be achievable.

edit : ipo might be 70 billion. No way. I am interested at 1/5 that.

 

[Chunky Jr.]

In this (again very hypothetical) scenario, Tesla would offer a Rights grant to Shareholders of Record (or Beneficial Shareholders, with documentation from their Broker) giving them the choice to purchase 12.94% more shares than they held on Aug 02, 2018 at a purchase price of $69.63

So if this scenario played out we could buy the stock for $69.83 and turn around and sell it at current market price? That's free money!

 

[Pezpunk]

I was also against buying BTC, obviously not upset enough to sell TSLA, but still. I think the point here is there are differences between intended purposes and practical purposes. As BTC is touted as a currency by proponents, it is supposed to be able to perform every function of fiats. But in reality, what has BTC really been used for by the average Joe? I made this argument 2 years ago and its pretty much in the same place today. Sure, the value has gone up a lot. A lot more institutional and retail participation. But, at the end of the day, people still dont buy food or pay rent with it. Its practical purposes do not include exchanging for goods and services in any meaning capacity and its not like we are still the early stage of adoption. It has become valuable and will continue in that direction, but what terminal uses are there for BTC (and most other cryptos)?

that's an open question, sure. Bitcoin isn't currently suited to point-of-sale transactions. It has that trait in common with gold, stock, retirement accounts, foreign currencies, any commodity, and in fact pretty much every form of value other than whatever the local fiat currency happens to be at the location of the transaction. That doesn't mean it's worthless monopoly money.

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

Over the past week, there have been some indications that Tesla may be considering a Rights Offering for existing shareholders to allow them to buy a certain number of TSLA shares at a reduced pice to compensate for recent dilution due to a series of cap raises.

Let's take an example starting point of July 2018 to estimate dilution since then. In the 10-Q released shortly after the 2018 Q2 conf. call, Tesla management stated that 852,965,720 shares were in existance. By the 2021 Q1 10-Q, we were up to 963,330,448 shares. That's about a 12.94% dilution over that time period:

Aug 03, 2018 SEC filing: 10-Q​

Working from the notion that Telsa would authorize a Rights offering to match the dilution which occurred over a certain time frame, its then possible Tesla could offer investors who have held shares continuously from July 2018 (in for this example) to purchase an addtional 12.94% of shares, to restore their proportional stake in the company from that time until now.

To extend this arguement, its also possible that Tesla would price this hypothetical Rights offering for July 2018 shareholders at the same closing share price from that time (ie: the Closing SP for TSLA on Aug 03. 2018 was $69.63 (SP as adjusted for the 5:1 split on Aug 31, 2020 ):

View attachment 670138

In this (again very hypothetical) scenario, Tesla would offer a Rights grant to Shareholders of Record (or Beneficial Shareholders, with documentation from their Broker) giving them the choice to purchase 12.94% more shares than they held on Aug 02, 2018 at a purchase price of $69.63

This is just an example, and it uses offering and pricing dates from Tesla's 10-Q filings. It may well be that Tesla would instead use dates and SPs from the dates of discreet Cap Raise offerings (for example, the Sep 01, 2020 offering), and create the Rights offering is such a way that there would be various "tiers" of rights to purchase stock, with the dates going all the way back to the IPO.

But keep in mind the Elon's 2018 CEO comp plan has also triggered dilution, as do quarterly stock options provided to salaried employees, officers and directors of the company.

At any rate, please feel free to add you ideas and especially your experience with Rights offerings to these ramblings.

And pardon me if I don't reply. You may be among the many who are now blocked for 'endless-Crypto-off-topic' comments. Sorry, I can't see your Tesla-related content if you are blocked (always best to stay on topic).

Cheers!

The downside of this would be if you don’t have the cash or means of getting the cash to buy the discounted shares....unless I would be allowed to sell a portion of my current shares to then buy the discounted shares

 

[Beltsbear]

So if this scenario played out we could buy the stock for $69.83 and turn around and sell it at current market price? That's free money!

This would be great news. Seems too good to be true.

 

[Artful Dodger]

So if this scenario played out we could buy the stock for $69.83 and turn around and sell it at current market price? That's free money!

It would seem so. I have no experience with Rights offering (advise based on knowledge apprecitated). But that's exactly what you can do with all those shares you've been holding, every day the market is open. The only difference is the SP is affected now by the amount of dilution since you bought your shares. A Rights offering is one way to reward and compensate long-term investors.

Swing traders who bought-sold, bought-sold may not see much benefit. I think in my case it'd be quite a tasty number of shares, well worth holding for.

 

[Artful Dodger]

The downside of this would be if you don’t have the cash or means of getting the cash to buy the discounted shares....unless I would be allowed to sell a portion of my current shares to then buy the discounted shares

Rights are often transferable. If you needed to fund the excercise of some Rights (and you are sitting on a 10-bagger), you could sell ~10% of the Rights then use that cash to buy 90% of the shares at the Right's offering price (tax implications unknown).

Keep in mind, i have absolutely ZERO experience in this. Hopefully our more seasoned members will add to our knowledge.

Cheers!

 

[durkie]

Over the past week, there have been some indications that Tesla may be considering a Rights Offering for existing shareholders to allow them to buy a certain number of TSLA shares at a reduced pice to compensate for recent dilution due to a series of cap raises.

what are the indications you're seeing that they might be doing this?

 

[lascavarian]

What makes you think that Tesla has the bulk of their Bitcoins online and not in cold storage? Especially when they aren't planning on selling them in the short term.

Please correct me but my memory is that there was no mention of cold storage. Not being snarky just may have missed that. I believe they have already sold some so there is a hint of uncertainty at any given time.

 

[Singuy]

Seems like Anonymous FB page with 10milliom subs is pushing the video and that's a verified true source. So now let's just say the video is real and intentional

Edit:

Okay so this is the official Anonymous youtube channel.

https://m.youtube.com/c/Anonymous/videos

Even posted a video about AI and Musks last warning about them recently.

Back to video being fake? No one really knows..lol.