Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Ogre]

Ummm, what?

So I buy an EV. Then over time it loses efficiency. One possibility is that it's less efficient at charging. That would mean it costs me 10% more in electricity, which may or may not translate to dollars and/or time charging. Another possibility is that it loses 10% of its efficiency on the road. In that case it loses 10% of its range.

You may hold that it's arguable which situation is worse, but in no way does it amount to the same thing. I much prefer the former.

The car gets 520 miles of range.

It “costs” 134kWh at the charger to get that range.

Why it takes 134 kWh doesn’t make a difference, that is the energy consumed to get from point A to point B.

I’m not sure how any of this relates to efficiency loss over time.

 

[RobStark]

The car gets 520 miles of range.

It “costs” 134kWh at the charger to get that range.

Why it takes 134 kWh doesn’t make a difference, that is the energy consumed to get from point A to point B.

I’m not sure how any of this relates to efficiency loss over time.

On the EPA test it takes a 100 kWh Tesla Model S 114 kWh to fill.

Even if Tesla only charges you for 100 kWh at a Supercharger.

Guess how much 118 x 1.14 is?

 

[FrANce]

As someone noted earlier there would be no, zero, nada reason to upgrade to CC on this car UNLESS you were planning to track the car frequently and needed the lasting stopping power that CC does offer.. for day to day, or even frequent funzies at aa track day or something like that, no reason at all - AND they SQUAEK! (Sp)

I like the pretty red color and why not give something back to TSLA

 

[Thekiwi]

I just read through ten pages of this thread and found precisely one post referencing the movement of the stock price. Not sure to be worried or pleased.

 

[Surfer of Life]

Porsche does charge less for a $100,000 car to be upgraded, but for a similar performance car they do indeed charge north of $20k for the top brake upgrade. Maintenance on super car brakes are extremely expensive too. a day at the track can put on a few thousand in maintenance costs.

here is a $30k third party kit.

Ceramic Brake Upgrade - 991 GT3

Check out the deal on Ceramic Brake Upgrade - 991 GT3 at Suncoast Porsche Parts & Accessories

www.suncoastparts.com

tesla margins may not be as high as you think on this stuff. It will sell more plaids though.

What maintenance/ wear and tear effect does a day at the track have on a Plaid Model S by comparison? (Not talking just brakes here) ... If I am not too off topic here on this Lucid battery thread.

 

[FS_FRA]

Let them drive Porche!

….and Porsche too!

 

[Favguy]

BBC gets a lot of funding from Billy Boi Gates foundation. As we all know, Billy Boi is $TSLAQ

Well, to be precise, BBC's international charity, Media Action, gets a relatively small donation from the Gates Foundation. (around £1.6M) The BBC itself is entirely funded by the UK public, so let's not get all conspiracy theory about things...

 

[SPadival]

Well, to be precise, BBC's international charity, Media Action, gets a relatively small donation from the Gates Foundation. (around £1.6M) The BBC itself is entirely funded by the UK public, so let's not get all conspiracy theory about things...

Umm.. Is Columbia Journalism Review indulging in conspiracy theories?

Journalism’s Gates keepers

Last August, NPR profiled a Harvard-led experiment to help low-income families find housing in wealthier neighborhoods, giving their children access to better schools and an opportunity to “break the cycle of poverty.” According to researchers cited in the article, these children could see...

www.cjr.org

Revealed: Documents Show Bill Gates Has Given $319 Million to Media Outlets

Bill Gates has bankrolled hundreds of media outlets and ventures, including CNN and NPR, to the tune of at least $319 million.

www.mintpressnews.com

And the number is 1.9M GBP to *checks note* British Broadcasting Corporation (have you heard about fungibility of money?)

Committed Grants | Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation

This database includes grant commitments made by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and previous foundations of the Gates family (William H. Gates Foundation, Gates Library Foundation, and Gates Learning Foundation) from 1994 onward.

www.gatesfoundation.org

 

[Chenkers]

Isn't "the Blue Oval" supposed to be positioned in landscape orientation? They wanted so much to be a little more like Tesla they even converted their Blue Oval from landscape to portrait mode. But they forgot to use it to keep the charge cord neatly stowed inside the oval. It looks a lot like a gas pump but I think it's going to take a long time to charge an F-150 Lightning with such a skinny little cord, it couldn't be much thicker than my thumb!

Those Ford chargers are only Level 2 AC.

See the article below where Tesla's designer for the Superchargers rips into Ford's design:
Teslarati: Tesla Product Design Director shares critique of Ford’s “fancy” L2 chargers

 

[22522]

Lack of originality, lack of engineering talent…

There is more wrong than that.

 

[22522]

It always seemed to me Lucid had 2 big advantages:-
1) Higher voltage
2) Thinner body - reduced drag

Both of these advantages some with some trade-offs but should lead to:-

3) Reduced weight.

So I think what a Lucid weighs compared to a Model S is a telling statistic, I have little doubt the Model S has significantly more cabin space.
But Lucid may have an elegant design, which overcomes the thinner body.

I hope Lucid respond to Warren, if the cabin climate really used a few percent of the electricity when charging, that may indicate the cabin climate system is inefficient. All those electrons had to go somewhere, and we should be able to compare kerb weights.

Not that the Lucid is necessarily a bad car, just that claiming to be more efficient than Tesla is a high standard to uphold.

Cell operating voltage range is not a safety mandated value. All performance parameters are improved by pushing the cell voltage higher, except battery life and safety.

 

[Prunesquallor]

Those Ford chargers are only Level 2 AC.

See the article below where Tesla's designer for the Superchargers rips into Ford's design:
Teslarati: Tesla Product Design Director shares critique of Ford’s “fancy” L2 chargers

Lol. Here's the tweet referenced in the article.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1463257512677888003

Verdura is Tesla's Product Design Director, winner of many awards including the Elon Musk Snark of Excellence Award.

So yeah, those Supercharger rip-offs are the charging equivalent of the little Tesla Wall Connector hanging on the wall of my garage.

 

[truwa]

I think Warren got it wrong.

1. EPA references efficiency directly. That mpge rating will tell us how Lucid does in efficiency. We should not jump to the conclusion that Lucid is lying to the EPA or cheating the test.

2. 134 kWh is what was drawn from the charger. Some of that might even go to run cabin climate, and definitely some is lost through charger inefficiency. 13.5% seems kind of high, but Warren’s claim of a single Model 3 test is absurdly low.

16kW energy loss during an hour long DC fast charging session (no AC to DC conversion required). That is exceptionally high because the weather outside is not freezing cold. If all that 16kW is converted to heat in just an hour then the car would become a giant space heater making the air around it as hot as an oven.

My guess is that Lucid has a large 10kW buffer and usable capacity is 118kW while actual pack size is 128kW. That makes Lucid slightly more efficient than Tesla, but not much.

Model S LR with 19" wheels would get a theoretical 405 x 1.28 = 518 miles of EPA range with a 128kW pack. But it would be lower because of the additional weight, perhaps like 480 miles.

 

[ammulder]

I really fail to see how this Lucid efficiency actually matters. They have, from all accounts, a very comfortable, long-range, fast-charging EV. That’s awesome! If it was $60k and you could actually get one, it would also be relevant.

Not that Tesla is doing all that well on the can-get-one rating right now… but I have high hopes that any magic numbers pointing to December refer to a new factory starting production, not any of the alternatives.

 

[Singuy]

Hopefully you can read if you zoom in. Some interesting info, but the valuation stuff is obviously the same ole' rubbish!

View attachment 737182

Many talking heads are using recent option activities to describe Tesla's valuation as fake news caused by gamma squeeze. However Elon pretty much poured cold water on this school of reasoning with his pre announced and substantial stock sale. The strength of TSLA's stock price despite the major headwind surprised even many bulls and is acting like a good anchor of support.

 

[jbcarioca]

Is there some hidden reason to offer something like this with a likely low take rate?

That Tesla will run around settings records using these and say hey it’s stock? You can order it from our website.

Any user of Plaid capabilities (i.e. track use) will benefit greatly from improved brakes. Even aggressive mountain driving will benefit. Had I any use other than in the flat Florida conditions I would think they would be a decent investment. At this price point such choices can be entirely rational no less rational than the vehicle purchase itself.

 

[hobbes]

Tesla is looking for a college student to move finished cars in the parking lot of Giga Berlin. I guess this is not the kind of job they´d have to publish a long time ahead of production (only requirements college student with 2yr drivers license + good German or English):

Werkstudent / Working Student (m/f/d) - End of Line Driver - Gigafactory Berlin-Brandenburg | Tesla Careers

Apply for the Werkstudent / Working Student (m/f/d) - End of Line Driver - Gigafactory Berlin-Brandenburg position in Grunheide, Brandenburg.

www.tesla.com

Job is for Mo-Fri which might hint that they won´t do weekend production in the beginning.

Found via:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1463726990893146114

EDIT: Currently 242 positions available at Grünheide, from simple jobs (see above) to leading positions across all specialties; this is including cell production already, also AP/ADAS testing and "cell abuse" including energy storage products.

EDIT 2: Looks like this is only starting in January: Sebastian Grund on LinkedIn: #tesla #studentjobs #gigafactory

Sebastian Grund ​

Recruitment Manager, High Volume at Tesla
16 Std. · Bearbeitet
#tesla-fahren als #studentjobs ? Berliner Studenten (m/w/d) aufgepasst! Wir bieten ab Januar Werkstundenten-Stellen (m/w/d) als Fahrer in der Endmontage.

 

[jbcarioca]

Lol. Here's the tweet referenced in the article.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1463257512677888003

Verdura is Tesla's Product Design Director, winner of many awards including the Elon Musk Snark of Excellence Award.

So yeah, those Supercharger rip-offs are the charging equivalent of the little Tesla Wall Connector hanging on the wall of my garage.

Or the tiny Wallbox that came with my Volvo or the ten-year-old Bosch unit I put in for my P85D in 2014.
Almost all the AC units I have seen have been far smaller and less obtrusive than the Ford unit.
To be fair, many public AC units are mounted in a slightly obtrusive way because they need to be conspicuous.
Ford made a knockoff but so what? 'Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery'.
After all driving a Ford Lightning past the former Tesla HQ on Deer Creek Road without comment is another example of 'sincere flattery'
Really, is not Ford giving Tesla free positive PR? Not as good a VAG's Diess but still quite positive.

 

[juanmedina]

I really fail to see how this Lucid efficiency actually matters. They have, from all accounts, a very comfortable, long-range, fast-charging EV. That’s awesome! If it was $60k and you could actually get one, it would also be relevant.

Not that Tesla is doing all that well on the can-get-one rating right now… but I have high hopes that any magic numbers pointing to December refer to a new factory starting production, not any of the alternatives.

And their slight better efficiency seems to come from using narrow tires, narrower body which decreases the frontal area when compared to the Model S.

 

[Surfer of Life]

Cell operating voltage range is not a safety mandated value. All performance parameters are improved by pushing the cell voltage higher, except battery life and safety.

Why are higher voltage packs shorter lived... just because, essentially more cells are in series?