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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Pierre had multiple points that gave him doubts and they are reasonable.

1. Will robotaxi demand be low in the near term? Waymo's program has demonstrated that demand for driverless taxi is low when it's too geofenced + not enough early adopters. This is currently true in Phoenix Arizona. Could just be that the tech is ahead of it's time so for the near term I agree with Pierre that if FSD was solved tomorrow, it'll take awhile before we have universal acceptance. When lives are on the line, people would like to wait a few years to see real world statistics and how often accidents happen. We understand that the media eats up any Tesla's mistakes and the first FSD accident will probably end up in the supreme court in the fight against Tesla's rollout given the spectacle it'll generate. I see major risk here.

2. Will robotaxi be profitable? Pierre mentioned google fiber being expensive. Ride hailing is also expensive. Uber being a software company makes only 38% gross margins on their revenue. This is absolutely abysmal when compared to other software makers. The reason is due to high cost on insurance and customer service, taking 40% of their total revenue. So it's going to be a long road ahead to reach profitability on ride hailing robotaxies. We are expecting revenue per customer to go down due to having no driver and to compete with people who own cars. However with price going down, we should see influx in demand which is where robotaxies should make it up. Taking marketshare from Uber is easy, however would half priced robotaxies make people want to ditch their cars completely? I think yes in the distant future, but not anytime soon.

1) With all due respect to Phoenix, Arizona, but who needs a cab there anyway? Who goes there who already does not have their own car :)
So not a relevant point. Plus, from the videos provided, Waymo is not very good at its businesses - the pick up positions and final destinations are pre set and often hundreds of meters from where you want the cab to be.

2) Uber is expensive because it needs to pay the driver. Plus, Tesla will take care of the insurance. Plus, electricity is much cheaper than gas. Plus. robotaxis can be operational 24/7, and not typically 8 hours/day, 6 days per week. Completely different model.
 
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1) With all due respect to Phoenix, Arizona, but who needs a cab there anyway? Who goes there who already does not have their own car :)
So not a relevant point. Plus, from the videos provided, Waymo is not very good at its businesses - the pick up positions and final destinations are pre set and often hundreds of meters from where you want the cab to be.

2) Uber is expensive because it needs to pay the driver. Plus, Tesla will take care of the insurance. Plus, electricity is much cheaper than gas. Plus. robotaxis can be operational 24/7, and not typically 8 hours/day, 6 days per week. Completely different model.
3) Plus. Uber is often a PITA. I travel a lot and Ubers to and from airports is hit and miss for me. Many ‘scheduled’ rides don’t show. And you are left scrambling last minute. Other times drivers text to figure out where you are going from airport then cancel or have ‘a flat tire’ on the way to you as ride takes them out of their sweet spot. RoTas won’t care. Plus I don’t wan’t to risk offending drivers by telling them I don’t feel like listening to their playlist through my earbuds or to adjust the temperature to my liking.
 
Both battery lines, 2170 and 4680 is prepared for but I expect based on several information that they start with 4680 for the MIG ModelY. Both packs have been on display but at that point in time but it was a mock-up and not a real battery pack.
Are you assuming the 4680s will still come from Kato Rd? The cell manufacturing line in Berlin looks like it still has a few months to go before production can start - and presumably there will be a testing phase on top.
 
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Thank you at to all for the support, I'm not sure if everyone realizes how significant this is and how detrimental. Smashing the largest solar market in the US will impact all US solar markets and really impact Tesla negatively. PGE is a criminal enterprise plain and simple and it needs to stop.
FYI: RM covered this in greater depth in yesterday's Tesla Daily Podcast; very useful summary of why this is so corrupt:

 
I would drive it safely based on my view of the road and its conditions. In fact incorrect speed limit data from maps is a great example of the sort of problems maps offer currently.
You would not in a real world example I deal with daily. There are traffic situations that are legal but not safe. Mapping in this real world case makes it worse by far.

The fix will require a combination of government action and/or mapping. The government is presently unwilling to fix their part. There is no process to fix the tesla mapping that I am aware of.

This is IMO off topic so I won’t continue with this other than to note that there are unfixable mapping issues that will require complex multiparty fixes IMO.
 
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Recently there were a few posts talking about Tesla‘s new battery as being one of the biggest changes in the auto industry ever. I actually think the gigacasting is a much more fundamental change, and the new battery format/tech just adds to it.

At first Elon thought massively increasing the jobs done by robotics in body construction was the answer to the question of “how do we build a car body” - and that didn’t quite workout, and they ended up needed more humans on the line. But then coming up with giga-casting was a real stroke of genius and the clear “first principles” answer, and that reduction in needed factory space - along with the vastly reduced footprint required for 4680 cell production - I think may set the scene for some smaller integrated tesla auto/cell factories for places like Brazil, Japan and maybe the UK, where something like a ~250k annual unit volume may be more appropriate, at least initially. If they can figure out a way to make a line that can swap between 3, Y, the smaller hatch and/or van with minimal downtime then that would work great in these smaller volume markets.
In principle I agree. Probably for all three of those some form of CKD would work with local sourcing as appropriate. For all three there are substantial tax and other oddities that can make local production outweigh the impediments. For certain Japan would benefit from a narrower and shorter choice than might be the case for most markets, but vehicles with that character are very popular in dense urban environments anyway, so the 'designed in China' platform certainly will work.

FWIW, both Hyundai and Chery have unusual success in Mercosur because they are built in Brazil by a very capable group, CAOA.
The Japan and UK situations are two quite different issues, but both are well suited to predominately local solutions. We also should consider India in the same category as the others.

The Tesla Gigafactory process is unique, highly scalable and benefits from massive scale when considering such issues as cell and battery production, Gigapress deployment and advanced paint shops. We are suggesting a very different approach for substantial but limited scale for which duties, a soupçon of jingoism, actual tariff barriers etc call for specific solutions.

For each of these TE products, Supercharger deployment and provision for charging solutions in Muti-family dwellings and shopping facilities need to supplement the Superchargers. The UK is the easiest of these locations to accomplish all that. Probably Japan will be the most difficult.

The fact remains that for locations other than China and Canada there are some unusual impediments that must be considered.

Finally, The US remains a very challenging market. I will not list the direct sales and service restrictions by State, those are well discussed. The primary impediment is the members of this:
We now know that will not solve easily. Thus we need to add the US to the list of unusual and difficult markets. Seven of the top ten States restrict direct sales in some way and service is also restricted in several. We should think of how to work around those because they aggregate to more sales that Japan has, with Mercosur and the UK well below that.

Without question Tesla is now sufficiently large that the large US sale States, [especially Texas (#2), NY (#4) and influential slightly smaller volume s Sates such as Michigan, North Carolina and Georgia] are critical to ongoing US growth. Hence creative NADA dealer solutions are probably essential. We Amy be assured that no political will successfully defeat the NADA.

Within the next two years all of these places are crucial to keep growing healthy Auto and TE products.
Tesla is going mainstream now, just look at all the forecasts from our own best people. I will not list them all...
 
Don't you think "bag holding" is an odd way to refer to those of us holding TSLA?

Typically, I only see that term applied to companies that crash and burn when it is learned their business results do not stand up to scrutiny.
Sorry if I wasn't being clear: bag holding on short term trades (yes, I'm stretching the term). Trying to avoid turning short term trades into months of holding until at least break even or profit.
 
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There's nothing wrong with profiting from manipulation. In fact, done successfully, it hurts the manipulators. But the trouble is identifying the timing and direction the manipulation will take it. And those effects must be layered upon the natural trading driven by real news and results as well as the natural volatility and market mood swings. The manipulators have deep pockets and abilities that regular investors or traders lack. So, you are really playing a guessing game and, when done poorly, it helps the manipulators play their game. It's how they profit.

There's a reason why dead investors have higher returns than active investors. This is literally true. And that's with the whole gamut of public companies. A company like TSLA, with growth like most of us expect over the next few years, will make it even harder to match, let alone beat, returns from holding. With taxable accounts it's a complete fool's game and with tax deferred accounts it's still pretty hard to come out ahead in the long term. Most investors can't even be honest with themselves about their true returns with their trading accounts. The nature of the human brain is to remember your wins and quietly forget your losses or structure the thinking about them to turn their losses into non-issues (because it was just a potential profit that was lost, not an actual tax loss).

But good luck, it's your money!
Thanks. Just playing the game, not hating the player. That's why I'm holding core TSLA shares that I haven't touched for a long time (they're long term) and utilizing some swing trade money to earn some extra income for short term. As for wins and losses in swing trading, yeah, can't avoid losses. Just need more wins than losses. ARKK comes to mind. I cut my ARKK loss and moved on. TSLA has always allowed me to earned money both ways from short and long terms and is more predictable, but still complex from time to time, to time entry and exit for maximum short term profits.
 
The Giga casting if we go by Munro's word was a big one. It's something that big Auto never thought was possible. Ideas like that would die in a box somewhere to never be found again. They got so stagnated that apparently they stopped pushing the boundaries in Material Sciences. Again paraphrasing Munro here, they stopped developing new materials in the 90's or so because they thought that that was the pinnacle of it. It's mind numbing how big Auto thinks.
Frankly I do not think the truth is quite so much stupidity as it is that all non-Tesla OEMs are more nearly assemblers than they are manufacturers. Their suppliers are essential for them to operate. A Gigacasting eliminates a minimum of several dozen suppliers and eliminates quite a few human assemblers as well. Just lookout ANY non-Tesla auto factory. It's not at all about materials, it's about not being able to cope with vertical integration. Hence a BMW exec saying Gigacastings are too expensive and inefficient.

Until we actually see structural battery packs in action we probably will be clueless about that too. It sounds so very simple...

I am reminded about the (in)famous case in which cable people advised Hewlett Packard that there was no future in handheld calculators because nobody would want one except engineers and they were faster and more flexible with slide rules. That was true. The same people had little clue about the internet even though they used it with DARPANET.

The Gigafactory, Gigapress and structural battery pack are those kind of revolution. They're invisible. They revolutionize manufacturing and use.
Beyond that they're CHEAP! The warranty costs plummet. and so it goes...
 
Small moves with low volume in the NASDAQ Pre-Market:

TSLA Pre-Market Quotes Live​

This page refreshes every 30 seconds.
Data last updated Jan 12, 2022 08:08 AM ET.

Consolidated Last Sale$1,067 +2.60 (+0.24%)
Pre-Market Volume181,328
Pre-Market High$1,071 (05:27:46 AM)
Pre-Market Low$1,058 (04:00:09 AM)

Pre-Market TSLA Realtime chart:

TSLA.2022-01-12.08-00.png


Macros are green: Nasdaq-100 +33.84 (0.21%) at 8:18 ET

Cheers!
 
We are essentially flat since the last blowout quarterly results.
Watching the price movements seems so illogical.

Then I remember the late great Jack Rickard and his thoughts on why Tesla is so maligned.

For anyone new here, this is a must-read.

 
Gigafactory 4 Berlin-Brandenburg
I've just listened to Minister Steinbach, Source:
At 12:00, he answered a question about the 2000 cars that can be produced, but not sold to customer: Selling the cars to customer is not permitted as long as they do not have the final approval for the factory.
I hope we won't see them very long as inventory, but as a first flood to 2000 happy customers 😁. Not bad for a first month after SOP, wouldn't it?
He didn't want to speculate about the date for the final approval -> work in progress :rolleyes:.

Questions about a report in German TV last night, that the water supply contract is in discussion, were not confirmed by him. He said it's an complete different procedure that has nothing to do with the approval.
 
We are essentially flat since the last blowout quarterly results.
Watching the price movements seems so illogical.

Then I remember the late great Jack Rickard and his thoughts on why Tesla is so maligned.

For anyone new here, this is a must-read.

that dude's a pompous imbecile and a horrendous writer.
 
Questions about a report in German TV last night, that the water supply contract is in discussion, were not confirmed by him. He said it's an complete different procedure that has nothing to do with the approval.

This is the key statement that should trigger a reduction of teeth-gnashing, pearls-clutching, as well as at-the-moon howling against the approval process in Grünheide: The frivolous lawsuit related to water is not a factor in GigaBerlin approval.

Nice.
 
The market is liking the CPI numbers this morning, most of my watchlist is well into the green before the open.
CPI numbers are out:7% vs expected 7.1%. China CPI data also encouraging. Obviously, this isn’t great from a macro perspective but it does help remove some uncertainty regarding the FEDs potential next move.

CPI Home : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

That said, nothing about TSLA’s price movements seem grounded in anything resembling reason, so I guess the market is going to market. Good luck everyone!
 
Small moves with low volume in the NASDAQ Pre-Market:

TSLA Pre-Market Quotes Live​

This page refreshes every 30 seconds.
Data last updated Jan 12, 2022 08:08 AM ET.

Consolidated Last Sale$1,067 +2.60 (+0.24%)
Pre-Market Volume181,328
Pre-Market High$1,071 (05:27:46 AM)
Pre-Market Low$1,058 (04:00:09 AM)

Pre-Market TSLA Realtime chart:

View attachment 754879

Macros are green: Nasdaq-100 +33.84 (0.21%) at 8:18 ET

Cheers!
Passing $1080 in premarket. Critical support level today! Will be interesting to see if MMs can hold it down today. Buy doubtful with the good CPI just announced.