Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Then again, If we get an amazing 4 th quarter that hits all the forecasts we will be below 100 by mid January. ((It’s tesla logic). 😊👍

By my calculations we would need to have a PE of about 25 in order to have a share price of $100 in mid January, with revenues for 2022 at about $13 billion.

Hey, I guess it's technically possible! :D
 
Long-Term Thinking

I want to share why I'm not worried about the stock dropping even to crazy low levels beyond here.

Here is my fundamental investment strategy as of today. This is not investment or financial advice. It's my plan for myself.

Premises:
  • TSLA's trailing twelve month P/E ratio will always be greater than or equal to 15 (below S&P 500 at 20 today)
  • By 2030, Tesla will be earning at least $150 billion per year ($43/share with today's float)
Thus, TSLA will reach at least $650/share by 2030, 3.6x today's price. That's just rough guesswork, but it works as an acceptable floor for some conservative napkin math.

If the market forces me next year to go back to engineering employment instead of living off selling stock, I will invest the majority of my pay into Tesla stock and call spreads. At some point between now and 2030 the TSLA price would rise to $650+ and also my calls would blow up.

A lot of people tried going heavy on calls and LEAPS in the earlier years of investing in TSLA but got burned from 2014-2019 when the stock didn't reflect the progress the company was making.

Nevertheless, I think this new era is fundamentally different because Tesla has big earnings now and investors will only ignore cash for so long. If Tesla makes the kind of earnings I'm expecting, there are only three long-term options:
  1. Dividends
  2. Cash buildup
  3. Share buybacks
Dividends would pay me cash directly, meaning that I wouldn't necessarily care about the price of my TSLA shares on the resale market because I could make an ROI just by holding and collecting payments over time. At the same time, stock prices usually respond to dividends for the same reason, such that stable dividend yields over 10% are exceedingly rare.

Cash and buybacks would, all else being equal, tend to push the TSLA price up. It would be very strange if Tesla had $1T cash at some point yet still had a market cap of $0.6T like it does today, because that would imply Tesla's entire business has a negative $400B market valuation beyond the cash in their bank account. It would also be very strange if buybacks were to cut the share count in half without any stock price appreciation.

I feel calm because of taking the long view.

The Tesla team has thoroughly proven themselves at this point, in a way that they definitely hadn't back in 2018 when I bought most of my shares. EV market acceptance is also at an all-time high and now half the population wants one and is just waiting for a more affordable option or improved charging infrastructure. The competition is way behind and falling further away as Tesla accelerates. Tesla just needs to keeping chugging along and scaling and if they do then they're almost guaranteed to make obscene amounts of money, which will come back to shareholders one way or another. I think that I know this and the market doesn't, which has created an enormous opportunity to exploit. The timing of the payoff is uncertain, but the likelihood of massive success at some point in the next few years seems very high.

What I need to focus on in the meantime is:
  • Continuously staying financially solvent
  • Enjoying life and contributing to society, irrespective of my current brokerage account market value
  • Having reasonably accurate estimates of future earnings growth instead of deluding myself
The fundamentals always have the last laugh.
 
Last edited:
I’ve posted this twice before. It has helped me. I hope it is useful to others.
651A0CB0-ED7B-4CD1-815F-AF300A618E79.jpeg
 
I’ve posted this twice before. It has helped me. I hope it is useful to others. View attachment 872974
Sometimes commiserating or simply venting can lead to unexpected support, solutions, workarounds, partnerships, team-building, etc. There's no arbiter to punish those who 'complain' as if there's some extant harm to come from it. Stoicism is good, but humans are social primates and necessity is the mother of invention. I'd wager that nearly every invention was preceded by complaints!

Someone from the past, "Geez, I'm tired of walking."
*Sees a herd of wild horses.*

The Pandemic wasn't all bad. It forced the WFH (work-from-home) experiment on the world, and I will likely WFH for the rest of my career. It created an intense cohesion among those who tasted freedom without a commute and will never give it up. It showed us what reduced pollution (during the lockdown) looks like, and it was a beautiful thing.

That said, I picked up some more chairs today! HODLing with Diamond Hands!
 
Last edited:
Tonight I may break my fingers so I don't get more tomorrow. That being said, in for another 30 chairs today (179 to 188).

In several months time, I'm confident we'll all look back at this tremendous opportunity and wish we bought more. If we could. I'm completely out of cash, otherwise I too would be buying. Even if the stock price rises a bit more, it's still a bargain with future potential in mind.
 
Started deploying some of the funds on margin I have available to me. The 87k production number is much better than I feared it would come in at, especially considering the first week of Oct we at least somewhat limited by the Chinese holiday. Seems like production of 90k and 92k for Nov and Dec should be the expectation with potential for higher.

This quarter truly is put up or shut up for both the bear and bull thesis.

For bulls, we’re finally getting production going smoothly for a quarter and things are tracking for over 480k in production. 500k in production is still a chance depending on Berlin/Austin ramp. Even if there’s 30-40k vehicles in transit, still looking at around 450k deliveries.

For bears, for their thesis to be true, Tesla will vastly overproduce for the amount of demand they say Tesla has. They’ve been able to use the excuse of demand all year because of production side downtime. Let’s see how that thesis holds up if Tesla posts QoQ growth of 35%.

The amount of operating leverage I’m expecting Tesla to realize/achieve in Q4 if it all goes smoothly and they do 480-500k production is going to be staggering.
 
Last edited:
Long-Term Thinking

I want to share why I'm not worried about the stock dropping even to crazy low levels beyond here.

Here is my fundamental investment strategy as of today. This is not investment or financial advice. It's my plan for myself.

Premises:
  • TSLA's trailing twelve month P/E ratio will always be greater than or equal to 15 (below S&P 500 at 20 today)
  • By 2030, Tesla will be earning at least $150 billion per year ($43/share with today's float)
Thus, TSLA will reach at least $650/share by 2030, 3.6x today's price. That's just rough guesswork, but it works as an acceptable floor for some conservative napkin math.

If the market forces me next year to go back to engineering employment instead of living off selling stock, I will invest the majority of my pay into Tesla stock and call spreads. At some point between now and 2030 the TSLA price would rise to $650+ and also my calls would blow up.

A lot of people tried going heavy on calls and LEAPS in the earlier years of investing in TSLA but got burned from 2014-2019 when the stock didn't reflect the progress the company was making.

Nevertheless, I think this new era is fundamentally different because Tesla has big earnings now and investors will only ignore cash for so long. If Tesla makes the kind of earnings I'm expecting, there are only three long-term options:
  1. Dividends
  2. Cash buildup
  3. Share buybacks
Dividends would pay me cash directly, meaning that I wouldn't necessarily care about the price of my TSLA shares on the resale market because I could make an ROI just by holding and collecting payments over time. At the same time, stock prices usually respond to dividends for the same reason, such that stable dividend yields over 10% are exceedingly rare.

Cash and buybacks would, all else being equal, tend to push the TSLA price up. It would be very strange if Tesla had $1T cash at some point yet still had a market cap of $0.6T like it does today, because that would imply Tesla's entire business has a negative $400B market valuation beyond the cash in their bank account. It would also be very strange if buybacks were to cut the share count in half without any stock price appreciation.

I feel calm because of taking the long view.

The Tesla team has thoroughly proven themselves at this point, in a way that they definitely hadn't back in 2018 when I bought most of my shares. EV market acceptance is also at an all-time high and now half the population wants one and is just waiting for a more affordable option or improved charging infrastructure. The competition is way behind and falling further away as Tesla accelerates. Tesla just needs to keeping chugging along and scaling and if they do then they're almost guaranteed to make obscene amounts of money, which will come back to shareholders one way or another. I think that I know this and the market doesn't, which has created an enormous opportunity to exploit. The timing of the payoff is uncertain, but the likelihood of massive success at some point in the next few years seems very high.

What I need to focus on in the meantime is:
  • Continuously staying financially solvent
  • Enjoying life and contributing to society, irrespective of my current brokerage account market value
  • Having reasonably accurate estimates of future earnings growth instead of deluding myself
The fundamentals always have the last laugh.

Since you're putting it out there, something I've learned: the two biggest purchases in life are the home and the car. After that, it's largely experiences, hobbies, family, and life expenses. When you get to that point, there's very few things people need to live a great life.

One suggestion: look at what you want to do with wealth on a general level, work backwards in determining how much you need, and then find out how to get to what you need in an ethical way. TSLA is definitely one ethical way because it's a mission oriented company that grows quite well in value over the years.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
In several months time, I'm confident we'll all look back at this tremendous opportunity and wish we bought more. If we could. I'm completely out of cash, otherwise I too would be buying. Even if the stock price rises a bit more, it's still a bargain with future potential in mind.
I'm also out of cash. But I have two kidneys.

/s on the two kidneys part.
 
Started deploying some of the funds on margin I have available to me. The 87k production number is much better than I feared it would come in at, especially considering the first week of Oct we at least somewhat limited by the Chinese holiday. Seems like production of 90k and 92k for Nov and Dec should be the expectation with potential for higher.

This quarter truly is put up or shut up for both the bear and bull thesis.

For bulls, we’re finally getting production going smoothly for a quarter and things are tracking for over 480k in production. 500k in production is still a chance depending on Berlin/Austin ramp. Even if there’s 30-40k vehicles in transit, still looking at around 450k deliveries.

For bears, for their thesis to be true, Tesla will vastly overproduce for the amount of demand they say Tesla has. They’ve been able to use the excuse of demand all year because of production side downtime. Let’s see how that thesis holds up if Tesla posts QoQ growth of 35%.

The amount of operating leverage I’m expecting Tesla to realize/achieve in Q4 if it all goes smoothly and they do 480-500k is going to be staggering.

Stating the obvious, but China seems to be looming as the big question mark for Q4.

Rarely a dull moment.