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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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I am not the only one on the board with experience. During 2008/2209 and during 1973/1074 I was working with banks on acquisition fo failing ones, integration post purchase, FDIC/US Treasury negotiations also. My clients included those that were the largest failures and acquirers. Decades earlier I had been an officer of two of them doing international acquisitions, startups and divestitures.
May I borrow your Time Machine for a few minutes? I’d like to go back to the Tesla IPO and dump every penny I had back then into $TSLA, instead of having done it DCA fashion after the fact.

Thanks in advance!

BTW: was that 1074 BC or AD?
 
- It'll be terrible for the country if SVB gets absorbed by another big "boring" bank - even worse if the Govt runs them. (Remember that they bankrupted the Mustang Ranch!) They won't know what to do with the assets and many good ventures will get shut down.
In a clown world, you probably would sell it to Elon just for the lololols. However in a world where you are trying to prevent contagion, panic, and a possible collapse of the financial system, the best FDIC can do is for SVB to be absorbed by one of the big 4. Washinton Mutual was quickly absorbed by Chase. I didn't even know WM went under until I got an email saying my user name and password now signs into Chase.
 
On the investor day, Elon said every human will need a bot. So 8 billion * 25k = 200 trillion addressable market. Assume Tesla gets 20% - 40 trillion. Bot replaced every 4 years. 10 trillion sales - 30% earnings - 3 trillion earnings. 20 PE equals to 60 trillion market cap.
Seriously doubt there is a 4 year replacement cycle on these. Maybe 10-20 years on the parts and you upgrade the brain every 3-4 years, and invest in monthly cleanings. Solid chance there is recurring revenue there.

Then again maybe my Optimus cleans and repairs my wife’s and her’s mine, the way monkeys groom each other.

Also, we need them to sell one Optimus before we start talking about selling millions. Let’s not be like the Apple fans who were making models for how Apple was going to steam roller the auto industry. A lot needs to happen before Tesla can take over the manual labor market.
 
In a clown world, you probably would sell it to Elon just for the lololols. However in a world where you are trying to prevent contagion, panic, and a possible collapse of the financial system, the best FDIC can do is for SVB to be absorbed by one of the big 4. Washinton Mutual was quickly absorbed by Chase. I didn't even know WM went under until I got an email saying my user name and password now signs into Chase.
Too big to fail, becomes too ginormous to fail.
 
I was surprised that I paid $17 to charge 40 kWh yesterday in Aberdeen, WA Supercharger. That was .425 per kWh! I have not been using supercharger for a year (or so), but this seems pretty high. Has Tesla been raising the price?
Price is based on demand as much as anything. Some locations are super busy so they charge a premium.

A little planning and you can often avoid the more expensive locations.
 
Does that mean the previous incarnation of unk was the puppet master of the Twitter purchase?
The previous and the present incarnations of @unk45 is someone I look up to with great admiration - someone I will humbly call a mentor, and also someone I have greatly enjoyed every conversation with. I am extremely grateful that he is back on TMC with us again. I have learned much and am in a better place because he was willing to share his breadth of knowledge with all of us. People like @unk45 and @Intl Professor made this a most intriguing and invigorating place over the years, and no matter how stressful the market and the macros may be, I will drink in every word from their lived experiences. And life is more fulfilling as a result.

On that note - sending best wishes to @AudubonB - hoping all is well for you and your family!
 
Price is based on demand as much as anything. Some locations are super busy so they charge a premium.

A little planning and you can often avoid the more expensive locations.
Having just returned from a trip to So Cal, and charged at numerous SC locations, I can report that .42 cents kWh is now common in that region. So yes; price for juice has gone up. I don't mind; still cheaper than gas, and I like to know that Tesla is making a profit.
 
I was surprised that I paid $17 to charge 40 kWh yesterday in Aberdeen, WA Supercharger. That was .425 per kWh! I have not been using supercharger for a year (or so), but this seems pretty high. Has Tesla been raising the price?
Tesla.. has been getting interesting on SC prices.

Here in NJ, off-peak (midnight to 10 a.m.? midnight to 9 a.m.? It varies) is about $0.17/kW-hr; peak is $0.43/kW-hr. There appear to be some low-utilized spots that are at $0.17/kW-hr at all hours.

Local electrical prices for homeowners in this state are around $0.18/kW-hr. I've observed before this that SC prices had been about 3X local utility prices, figuring, "Fair enough. They need to money to build new/repair old/pay for electricity." And SC's, originally, were primarily for people doing long-distance traveling. The general thought being that people would charge at home most of the time.

Even with that additional 3X increase, Teslas handily beat ICEs on fuel costs per mile, although a Toyota Prius would have given Teslas only using SCs a run for their money. (Except Teslas need a heck of a lot less maintenance than Priuses, which needs oil changes and the usual ICE care and handling.)

Now, in NJ at least, we got this two-tier pricing model. What I'm thinking: At $0.17/kW-hr, that's about what a homeowner would get. So, what about all those people in apartments? And there you are. Apartment dwellers would show up in the morning once or twice a week (or from 10 p.m. to midnight, the other window that appears to be open), and, while not as convenient as charging at home, at least gets the same costs as all those homeowners.

So, to answer your question: Yes, SC prices are up, if for no other reason than inflation. During Prime Traveling Time, those prices are roughly 3X the local electricity cost. But you can drop your costs down by charging during off-peak. That might provide some savings at the beginning or end of a trip.

YMMV.
 
Posted dropping Lithium Carbonate prices a few weeks ago, but supply side/input costs continue to improve further there and also with Cobalt and Nickel. Great news for Tesla/TSLA, EV makers, and consumers.


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Lithium - 2023 Data - 2017-2022 Historical - 2024 Forecast - Price - Quote - Chart



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Cobalt - 2023 Data - 2010-2022 Historical - 2024 Forecast - Price - Quote - Chart




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Nickel - 2023 Data - 1993-2022 Historical - 2024 Forecast - Price - Quote - Chart
 
On the investor day, Elon said every human will need a bot. So 8 billion * 25k = 200 trillion addressable market. Assume Tesla gets 20% - 40 trillion. Bot replaced every 4 years. 10 trillion sales - 30% earnings - 3 trillion earnings. 20 PE equals to 60 trillion market cap.
If Tesla were to make billions of bots, I think the production cost and selling price would probably fall far below $25k. Huge if, of course.

For comparison, an entire car can be built today for around $25k.

The bot will have one or two orders of magnitude less parts, mass, and build operations than a car. The bot’s mass is ~70kg, which is ~30x less than a Model Y. We don’t know the part count, but it should be much less than the multi-thousand part count for a car. This implies much lower bill of materials cost and indirect costs thereof, including supply chain, logistics, floor space, and fabrication/assembly operations.

Also, if the bot eventually becomes capable enough for there to be demand for billions of units, then the army of bots itself will help build more bots with very low labor cost in an exponential self-replication cycle of growth. Assuming Tesla did not fake their Investor Day demo video, they are apparently already working on this.

At production scale in the billions, economies of scale and Wright’s law would reduce costs as well. Fixed costs would become a tiny fraction of the overall cost structure and learning curve effects would result in extremely optimized design and manufacturing techniques, just like we see for other products with similarly huge scale, like rice, computer chips, or aluminum cans.

This leads me to believe the cost has the potential to fall to a few thousand dollars per bot. If so, Tesla probably would not sell the bot for as high as $25k unless they’re targeting like 80% gross margin. It’s hard to really model though. If this thing actually works as hoped then the entire world is going to get weird really fast.
 
If Tesla were to make billions of bots, I think the production cost and selling price would probably fall far below $25k. Huge if, of course.

For comparison, an entire car can be built today for around $25k.

The bot will have one or two orders of magnitude less parts, mass, and build operations than a car. The bot’s mass is ~70kg, which is ~30x less than a Model Y. We don’t know the part count, but it should be much less than the multi-thousand part count for a car. This implies much lower bill of materials cost and indirect costs thereof, including supply chain, logistics, floor space, and fabrication/assembly operations.

Also, if the bot eventually becomes capable enough for there to be demand for billions of units, then the army of bots itself will help build more bots with very low labor cost in an exponential self-replication cycle of growth. Assuming Tesla did not fake their Investor Day demo video, they are apparently already working on this.

At production scale in the billions, economies of scale and Wright’s law would reduce costs as well. Fixed costs would become a tiny fraction of the overall cost structure and learning curve effects would result in extremely optimized design and manufacturing techniques, just like we see for other products with similarly huge scale, like rice, computer chips, or aluminum cans.

This leads me to believe the cost has the potential to fall to a few thousand dollars per bot. If so, Tesla probably would not sell the bot for as high as $25k unless they’re targeting like 80% gross margin. It’s hard to really model though. If this thing actually works as hoped then the entire world is going to get weird really fast.
I am going by Elons prediction that bot will be priced as much as a small car. My timelines for this is more like 2040 and 25k then is probably worth 15- 20k today and inflation on top. However, lower priced bot will only attract more demand. There is also potential for some sort recurring revenue as well. So I thought 25k would be a good ASP by 2040.