Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[unk45]

Another argument for what Tesla ‘must do’ to be like other OEMs. Have we not learned yet that Tesla doesn’t have to copy or be like other OEMs to succeed? That being ‘different’ than other OEMs is actually what got Tesla to this point both from a company health and consumer satisfaction standpoint, and what will see Tesla being the last one standing.

It’s erroneous thinking, it’s stagnant thinking, to keep thinking things must be as they are in the now in the future for things to work out. Has Tesla not proven otherwise? That you don’t have to sell cars via a dealership model, that you don’t have to bring a car in every single time to service it, that a recall ain’t necessarily a recall, that fueling should mostly happen at home, that every vehicle can be 5*+++ for safety, that car manufacturing can be radically different than it has been for many decades, that maybe a steering wheel won’t be needed at some point -

Tesla doesn’t have to do anything like Honda (or Ford, or GM, or -) and I’m out the very second Tesla tries to emulate them in any way.

Still, several companies have lost suits over warranties conditioned only on use of OEM parts, even Weber grills lost on that. To my mind is is irrational to force any manufacturer of anything to be liable for ill effects of any OEM parts, or even use of non-OEM maintenance. Obviously independent suppliers of anything or services of anything would prefer to do their thing and have the OEM liable.

These things have become quite bizarre. Out of warranty is another matter, when OEM liability is much reduced, although nit totally eliminated.

There is a real risk that Tesla could lose one of these actions. Horrible to contemplate.

 

[Nocturnal]

Still, several companies have lost suits over warranties conditioned only on use of OEM parts, even Weber grills lost on that. To my mind is is irrational to force any manufacturer of anything to be liable for ill effects of any OEM parts, or even use of non-OEM maintenance. Obviously independent suppliers of anything or services of anything would prefer to do their thing and have the OEM liable.

These things have become quite bizarre. Out of warranty is another matter, when OEM liability is much reduced, although nit totally eliminated.

There is a real risk that Tesla could lose one of these actions. Horrible to contemplate.

But the actual item being modified can still have it's warranty voided no? Like if I add a supercharger to a gas engine and it blows up. Ford won't have to cover the blown engine. They would still have to cover say the brakes or ECU though. At least that's my understanding of the Magnuson act.

 

[JRP3]

With all the orders this company has received, its strange. Austin just put in a major order for their EV buses.

I believe part of the problem is they have orders with locked in pricing that didn't allow for recent cost increases and inflation. If they can't renegotiate then they are selling at a loss. Discussion best continued here

What other tech stock to consider?

Anyone have any thoughts on electric bus maker Proterra (PTRA)? They have a lot of orders, good backlog, but share price is in the toilet. Seems more "solid" than some companies in this space, but stock is getting killed, I haven't seen news as to why.

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Knightshade]

But the actual item being modified can still have it's warranty voided no? Like if I add a supercharger to a gas engine and it blows up. Ford won't have to cover the blown engine. They would still have to cover say the brakes or ECU though. At least that's my understanding of the Magnuson act.

Correct.

The act says an OEM can not condition warranty coverage on you buying parts, or service, from them for repairs or maintenance. They can only REQUIRE using OEM parts or service if they provide them for free.

You are otherwise fine to buy 3rd party parts, and using 3rd parties (including yourself) to maintain the thing, and it can not "void" your overall warranty.

But if a failure happens that is CAUSED by a 3rd party part, or by incorrectly done 3rd party maintenance, the OEM does not have to cover that under the warranty. The rest of the warranty would still remain in place and cover anything else.

 

[Ogre]

Still, several companies have lost suits over warranties conditioned only on use of OEM parts, even Weber grills lost on that. To my mind is is irrational to force any manufacturer of anything to be liable for ill effects of any OEM parts, or even use of non-OEM maintenance. Obviously independent suppliers of anything or services of anything would prefer to do their thing and have the OEM liable.

These things have become quite bizarre. Out of warranty is another matter, when OEM liability is much reduced, although nit totally eliminated.

There is a real risk that Tesla could lose one of these actions. Horrible to contemplate.

The lawsuit isn't very clear what's specific bits are the concern. Are they talking about servicing the battery? If it's not under warrantee, I don't think Tesla cares. Likewise the charging system and drivetrain. Lots of 3rd party bodywork gets done. Tires obviously as well.

The biggest problem is there are few or no third party suppliers for replacement parts for a Tesla. I don't think this is due to Tesla, I think it's simply supply and demand. Eventually there will be enough Teslas on the road for these companies to start producing parts for Teslas. But the problem is things that fail, Tesla fixes. Like the 12v system which failed are getting replaced by batteries which should last the life of the vehicle.

That plus the fact that Teslas change so fast likely makes being a 3rd party supplier for Tesla a nightmare.

 

[CHGolferJim]

What are the problems at Proterra and would buses be a good line extension for Tesla?

 

[GhostSkater]

Watching latest video from Frenchie I was thinking how "easy" should be to train a pot hole detecting NN, with it running in the background, it has data to detect it after the fact

NN says it is a pothole but no pothole detected with the accelerometer, send data back. NN say it isn't a pothole put accelerometer detects it, send data back. NN say it is a pothole and accelerometer detects it, send data back and gives itself a pat on the back

What I mean that is the labeling is easy on what is a pot hole or not, way easier than many other aspects of FSD, and the consequence for being wrong is null in most case, since FSD ignore them so far

If they are working on collecting data for that for a long time, the pothole library must be giant

 

[cab]

As I watched a few FSD 11 videos this week I casually realized "These are getting boring." Then I realized "why": FSD is getting so darn good the videos are turning into "a car drives around town and makes a few mistakes" videos. Sure, there are still any number of opportunities for improvement and legit "that could have caused an accident" moments, but sheesh it's impressive already. Bored Watching FSD Videos = Bullish!

 

[navguy12]

Sorry to disagree. Here’s a charge that I got with a 2022 Plaid MS. It charges so fast that I barely had time to use the restroom.
View attachment 918061

I’ve seen 257 kW on my antique TM3 as well (preheat for anticipated supercharger stop, actual ambient temperature was 10c warmer than forecast at said supercharger stop).

 

[ktrivedi70]

As I watched a few FSD 11 videos this week I casually realized "These are getting boring." Then I realized "why": FSD is getting so darn good the videos are turning into "a car drives around town and makes a few mistakes" videos. Sure, there are still any number of opportunities for improvement and legit "that could have caused an accident" moments, but sheesh it's impressive already. Bored Watching FSD Videos = Bullish!

Kinda like watching rockets land.

 

[betstarship]

The credit card rate is beyond concerning.

Historic U.S. credit card rates will bite

For an economy famously reliant on its indestructible consumers and their insatiable appetite for credit, alarm bells could not be ringing any louder.

www.reuters.com

Also, I'm working with mortgage lenders right now and the standards are kinda absurd to the point its quizzical and required some research on my part. Found this as a result and the uncertainty in the market makes way more sense:

Experts: Lending Standards Are Tightening

Mortgage credit availability decreased in January according to the Mortgage Credit Availability Inde...

themreport.com

 

[Cobbler]

....

Imagine if they did this with the rain-sensor vs a vision based solution

 

[Ogre]

The credit card rate is beyond concerning.

This is the way credit cards work. The base interest rate goes up, credit card rates rise too.

Most of them are listed as "Prime Plus __%".

Credit cards are a suckers game.

 

[Knightshade]

The credit card rate is beyond concerning.

Only if you're foolish enough to carry a balance month to month.... which barring things like emergencies if you're someone who does that you're probably better off without having credit cards.

They're a great tool for making a nice little profit off normal spending on a regular basis and getting some premium travel and other perks for cheap when used properly. Or for digging a giant ridiculous dangerous hole when used improperly. Both are true irrespective of whatever the interest rates are.

 

[MountainRatMat]

Also, I'm working with mortgage lenders right now and the standards are kinda absurd to the point its quizzical and required some research on my part. Found this as a result and the uncertainty in the market makes way more sense:

Experts: Lending Standards Are Tightening

Mortgage credit availability decreased in January according to the Mortgage Credit Availability Inde...

themreport.com

While logic doesn't always prevail this one makes complete logical sense to me.

Housing prices still high, total loan principal effectively the same, interest rates higher. This means mortgage payments are higher and in turn results in more defaults.

 

[betstarship]

Only if you're foolish enough to carry a balance month to month.... which barring things like emergencies if you're someone who does that you're probably better off without having credit cards.

They're a great tool for making a nice little profit off normal spending on a regular basis and getting some premium travel for cheap when used properly. Or for digging a giant ridiculous dangerous hole when used improperly. Both are true irrespective of whatever the interest rates are.

I understand that! Just a lot of people... Credit Card Statistics And Trends 2023

 

[BioSehnsucht]

Watching latest video from Frenchie I was thinking how "easy" should be to train a pot hole detecting NN, with it running in the background, it has data to detect it after the fact

NN says it is a pothole but no pothole detected with the accelerometer, send data back. NN say it isn't a pothole put accelerometer detects it, send data back. NN say it is a pothole and accelerometer detects it, send data back and gives itself a pat on the back

What I mean that is the labeling is easy on what is a pot hole or not, way easier than many other aspects of FSD, and the consequence for being wrong is null in most case, since FSD ignore them so far

If they are working on collecting data for that for a long time, the pothole library must be giant

Don't know if they're actively developing it, but I do recall them mentioning detection and avoidance of potholes in one of their presentations in the last few years. So it's certainly on their metaphorical radar.

 

[Singuy]

I understand that! Just a lot of people... Credit Card Statistics And Trends 2023

CC companies are the phishing trolls people don't seem to mind. "Spend a ton of money within a short period of time and get 50k points". Then they just bank on life screwing you so you can't pay it off,...hook line and sinker.

Play your cards right and you can just get in on the deal without paying for travel ever again.

 

[Captkerosene]

This is the way credit cards work. The base interest rate goes up, credit card rates rise too.

Most of them are listed as "Prime Plus __%".

Credit cards are a suckers game.

I'd say this is the industry Elon wants to compete in with X. Add a couple percent for the transaction fee and there's a lot of money to be made in the credit card business. See: V (Visa) with a market cap approaching TSLA's.

 

[cab]

So bad news, good news. The bad news is I canceled my Model Y Performance order...thus impacting Q1 revenue. The good news is that I canceled because I wanted to wait until Hardware 4 was implemented...and since the price has gone up $2K since I purchased and I will pay the order fee again ($250 X 2), Tesla will ultimately get AT LEAST an extra $2500 from me. Heck, it could be more since I ordered Multicoat red and if they happen to bring Ultra Red to the Y then it will probably be $500 more for that too!