JusRelax
Active Member
I haven't watched it yet, but Brighter With Herbert youtube channel has an interview with the very first TSLA bull on Wall Street, some of which you may know (and adore) - Andrea James:
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Come drive on HWY 7 between Carlton Place (ON) and Peterborough (ON) using any of the available Tesla ADAS.I have two Tesla's one I have had for 5 years I have had phantom breaking two times, total.
Part of this problem could be that people love to complain but don't say anything when they're happy....
I am happy with my teslas
Maybe if it said Crude Oil forever.... But Gasoline has been extracted, shipped and then refined and shipped again.Your tone makes me think you’re looking at the situation incorrectly.
Those who care the most about this planet wish for gasoline forever. That is, the way - the only way- to make that happens is to save, not consume, it.
That's one way of looking at it. Alternatively, those posts could be reminders about what is actually the most valuable in cars, what is essential, and what are merely bells and whistles. There definitely is a subjective element, and these posts show that different people have chosen different narratives.All posts about how Birdseye, ultrasonic, etc. are unecessary....they are all just sadly an effort at justifying Tesla's inadequacy. If people are such awesome drivers so as not to need the extras, we'll no one makes you use them. Having additional aides to help all drivers, regardless of skills, makes for the safest cars. Many other car brands have created valuable features to help in this area. Don't justify Tesla's substandard bells-and-whistles because it demonstrates your subjectivity.
Yup well said. Also its just an incredible own-goal by Tesla in terms of branding. Regardless of how I personally feel as a customer, I despair at Tesla handing such an obvious gift to competitors. My neighbour recently bought an MG EV costing about half what my model Y cost. He cares not a bit about 0-60 times, or playing games and streaming netflix in his car. His *cheap* EV has a rain sensor, parking sensors and a birds eye view.
I'd love Tesla to spend less time bragging about nurburing lap-times and more time implementing the basic functionality that people expect to work. Anybody trying to use Tesla Vision to park in a tight space will tell you that its embarrasingly bad.
Tesla have to sell cars to the average Joe now, not just to people who take a lambo to the track.
I wouldn't say the product overall is getting worse but that there are pro's and con's to every change made. Citing the 2 models you listed below are a few examples:I have a 2022 model Y with FSD purchased. It cannot even autopark, 8 months after purchase. My 2015 model S could. How is this 4D chess by elon? The product is getting worse.
Perhaps we should all register our disappointments on TwitterI suspect the people who thought of (or at least approved) removing the sensors ARE the same folks bragging about the lap times though.
I agree this is an own-goal thing--- and one Tesla already went through, more than once, and should have known better.
When they removed rain sensors- which have worked flawlessly for many many years in not just other brands, but Teslas as well, WITHOUT having validated at-least-as-good software to replace them, that was a mistake. Initially there was just 0 auto functionality at all- then it was complete garbage when they finally rolled SW out. Only now, years later, is the software for that feature ok... and JUST ok, still not as good, as we've seen from many recent posts, as the original physical sensor was.
Rather than learn from this and put off any further removing of HW until they knew the SW was good, they removed radar... making even basic AP less functional (lower top speed, longer minimum follow distance)... and now, once again, years later, it's still not back to parity with the original HW-based solution just like the wipers aren't.
Then rather than learn from EITHER of those and put off any further removing of HW until they knew the SW was good, they removed the ultrasonics.... which entirely removed many of the features of EAP/FSD from newer cars for a while (no autopark, no summon, no enhanced summon)-- and now a few months shy of a year later, software has brought back some of this, but it's demonstrably worse than the HW based solution-- and given the existing cameras have known blind spots the USS covered, that's also not going to get back to parity.
The best part is no part when the lack of the part does not make the car worse
The fact YOU (generic you) doesn't care about losing all these things lower-end cars did fine with HW doesn't change the fact many prospective buyers WILL care... and we're no longer in the days of 6 month waiting lists for deliveries- scaling to even 2 million cars a year requires at least SOME consideration of what the "normal" buyer wants and expects.... and certainly scaling to -20- million requires a lot of consideration of that.
If a person feels they have the above responsibility then don’t be posting complaints on TMC. Go DO something about it at that higher level. Plead your case to the people at the top and convince them they’re wrong.I hold not tens of millions, not hundreds of millions, but billions of dollars of TSLA. I sit on the board of Tesla Inc.
It is my responsibility to ensure my company makes THE safest, most compelling automobile the world ever has or will see.
To attain that goal, my view is that the company ought take, rather than dismiss, the good features also present in other makers’ products. That the company ought - as @unk45 has cogently written - consider replacing the Old with the New after and only after the latter has rigorously been demonstrated always to be superior.
And THAT is how I view my position with Tesla and TSLA. It is thus not solely because of my years as a portfolio manager entrusted to manage thousands of others peoples’ savings, but because now, in my so-called retirement, I do exactly the same but for only a very select number of family and friends. For me, there is no difference in those two charges.
Subsequent to my prior post, another has posted “FWIW…I never have experienced phantom braking…”. The ”IW” in that FWIW is exactly zero. It has happened to others. It never should occur. “My wipers work fine”. Again, worthless, or possibly less than zero, as along with tires and brakes, a well-functioning set of wipers is axiomatically fundamental to a safe automobile.
”You don’t like that a Tesla hasn’t such-and-such a feature? Fine: then buy another car.” I do not wish to read one more such line in a thread devoted to investments in TSLA. Not Ever Again. Zero exception.
So you are telling us that your neighbour bought a cheap, ugly, slow, MG EV with dreadful range and infotainment system, and you are comparing it to a Tesla. Got it.Yup well said. Also its just an incredible own-goal by Tesla in terms of branding. Regardless of how I personally feel as a customer, I despair at Tesla handing such an obvious gift to competitors. My neighbour recently bought an MG EV costing about half what my model Y cost. He cares not a bit about 0-60 times, or playing games and streaming netflix in his car. His *cheap* EV has a rain sensor, parking sensors and a birds eye view.
I'd love Tesla to spend less time bragging about nurburing lap-times and more time implementing the basic functionality that people expect to work. Anybody trying to use Tesla Vision to park in a tight space will tell you that its embarrasingly bad.
Tesla have to sell cars to the average Joe now, not just to people who take a lambo to the track.
I disagreed only because numerous automakers have solved that display problem without infringing on Nissan patents. The excellent 360 views can be done otherwise, according to information I believe to be true regarding one OEM that has several brands with 360 display technology. I have not personally seen that proof.To all those lamenting 360/Birdseyeview - this was patented by Nissan if memory serves me. And it is still an active patent.
Tesla's cameras and software could aggregate and produce 360 with no problems, but turning that on across the fleet would be a big fat check to Nissan for royalties. I highly suspect this is why Tesla has not done this, but like with LFP, the instant that patent expires we might see a software upgrade that enables it.
I agree. What’s happening here is not advocating for improvement.It is possible to love something and yet advocate for improvement.
I pity you.I don't use autopilot much
To be fair that post was pointing out that driver convenience features were present and working. If you've not experienced that MG4 you might not understand why so many people buy it and like it. Nobody actually equates the MG4 with Tesla Model 3.So you are telling us that your neighbour bought a cheap, ugly, slow, MG EV with dreadful range and infotainment system, and you are comparing it to a Tesla. Got it.
For the record, I've been able to park my FSD-enabled Tesla(s) for many years now, without the need for Auto Park.
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Tesla IS selling cars to the average Joe
I disagreed only because numerous automakers have solved that display problem without infringing on Nissan patents. The excellent 360 views can be done otherwise, according to information I believe to be true regarding one OEM that has several brands with 360 display technology. I have not personally seen that proof.
I am above average
Interestingly 'unchecked surveillance capitalism' would be a stronger argument than 'bad people'. Interesting paper https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/26317877221129290I pity you.
"I bought an iPhone but I use it to only make phone calls. because I heard there are bad people on the Internet"
To be fair, "He cares not a bit about 0-60 times, or playing games and streaming netflix in his car" are wonderful Tesla features.To be fair that post was pointing out that driver convenience features were present and working. If you've nt experiences that MG4 you might not understand why so many people buy it and like it. Nobody actually equates the MG4 with Tesla Model 3.