Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Krugerrand]

Tesla should not exclude themselves from consideration to save a few bucks.

That’s hilarious because that’s exactly what every other OEM is doing with their EV offerings.

Why do you hold Tesla not just to higher standards, but to impossible standards? Tesla can not be everything to everyone. That’s not realistic.

Additionally, The Mission is the whole point of Tesla. If excluding themselves from consideration to save a few bucks is what they choose, it’s because The Mission and their goals are more important. Part of The Mission is to push other OEMs to make EVs. If other OEMs can offer things in their EVs that Tesla doesn’t in theirs, that’s actually good for The Mission. It makes no difference if your wife drives a Tesla or a VW EV, it only matters it’s an EV.

 

[philw1776]

Driving thru MA yesterday in the rain my wipers worked fine EXCEPT that there are signs that MA law says if your wipers are on your headlights MUST be on, so I had to go to manual to get them on. Worse yet when I parked the manual lights stayed on. The good news was the car then b*****d at me to shut the lights off.

 

[InTheMiddle]

As to the argument that we must accept the status quo and shut up, or buy a different car, I do not subscribe to that view for cars or politics. It is possible to love something and yet advocate for improvement.

This is exactly correct. While certainly those who are only focused on the negative do make appearances here sometimes (and everywhere in every facet of life sometimes, for that matter), I find that often that the people most advocating for improvement in something are the people who most truly love that something, and want it to be the best possible thing it can be, for all the world to see.

 

[Drumheller]

I just returned from a multi thousand mile road trip. Went from v11.4.2 to v11.4.3 a couple of days ago. I drive a 22 MS long range, the best road car ever made. The wipers work fine for me.
FSD is a different story. Phantom braking, phantom lane change and gratuitous nav instructions are a real problem. FSD would go for long stretches and then attempt to slow, most often not strong braking but needs to be overridden. Even when not exactly braking, it is noticeable that the car stops applying power for a moment. These thing happen sometimes in traffic but also in eastern Montana and western North Dakota on long straight stretches and zero discernible traffic ahead or behind. Once on a clear 2 lane with no traffic near, I let FSD do its phantom braking worst. It slowed from 60 to 17 mph. When it works right, it is a true driving assist. As it is, one must keep a foot over the accelerator in case of braking, and keep quite a bit of tension on the steering even on straight roads. The end result is that until they get this sorted, using FSD is more work and more stressful than just plain old cruise control. Having had this thought on the trip, I tried just using EAP and I still got phantom lane change and phantom braking but maybe not as often. Additionally, on several occasions Nav gave verbal instructions to exit onto exits that were not present. The car did not move or slow for the phantom exits but it was weird.
As to the argument that we must accept the status quo and shut up, or buy a different car, I do not subscribe to that view for cars or politics. It is possible to love something and yet advocate for improvement.

Phantom braking occurs when using plain old cruise control. Last weekend I had to explain it to my friend when he asked why I hard braked on the highway for no reason. 2021 Model Y, no FSD, no EAP purchased.

It would be great to get feedback to Tesla. Please tell us how. There is no one you can call. There is not a feedback ability in the app. I've gone into showrooms, discussed how I'm a huge fan and very happy overall with the cars and would like to offer some feedback I think may be helpful. The staff are kind and listen but subtlety clue me in that the feedback can't get high up from them.

I have a concern with my model y range / battery / calibration. I've raised it 4 times through service in the past 2 years. Twice I received no response. The other 2 times I was told, "there are no errors showing for your battery" and ticket closed. Advertised epa range of 326 miles. 100% has been 280 for over a year. Yesterday I drove 50% charge around Phoenix. Half around 45mph, half around 70 mph. 112 miles. So an estimated range of 224 miles. My old Model s, 2013 p85+, had an estimated max range of 237 miles when I traded it in with over 130,000 miles on the odometer. I could get about 200 miles of real range from that.
I've tried to recalibrate by driving down to less than 10% and then charging. Both times I lost estimated max range.

Today I get about 220 miles of real range from a 2 year old Model y with 40,000 miles on the odometer and a display range of 280.

Can't get anyone from Tesla to actually look into it beyond checking the logs for a thrown error.

Again, huge fan, don't plan to buy anything else at this time, but how does feedback get to Tesla management?

 

[Krugerrand]

Phantom braking occurs when using plain old cruise control. Last weekend I had to explain it to my friend when he asked why I hard braked on the highway for no reason. 2021 Model Y, no FSD, no EAP purchased.

It would be great to get feedback to Tesla. Please tell us how. There is no one you can call. There is not a feedback ability in the app. I've gone into showrooms, discussed how I'm a huge fan and very happy overall with the cars and would like to offer some feedback I think may be helpful. The staff are kind and listen but subtlety clue me in that the feedback can't get high up from them.

I have a concern with my model y range / battery / calibration. I've raised it 4 times through service in the past 2 years. Twice I received no response. The other 2 times I was told, "there are no errors showing for your battery" and ticket closed. Advertised epa range of 326 miles. 100% has been 280 for over a year. Yesterday I drove 50% charge around Phoenix. Half around 45mph, half around 70 mph. 112 miles. So an estimated range of 224 miles. My old Model s, 2013 p85+, had an estimated max range of 237 miles when I traded it in with over 130,000 miles on the odometer. I could get about 200 miles of real range from that.
I've tried to recalibrate by driving down to less than 10% and then charging. Both times I lost estimated max range.

Today I get about 220 miles of real range from a 2 year old Model y with 40,000 miles on the odometer and a display range of 280.

Can't get anyone from Tesla to actually look into it beyond checking the logs for a thrown error.

Again, huge fan, don't plan to buy anything else at this time, but how does feedback get to Tesla management?

I had a very mild phantom brake yesterday on TACC, until I realized the car was reading and interpreting a warning speed sign - because I circled back to see if it would do it again and if so could I figure out why.

There was a speed change coming up sign that was white surrounded by yellow. The car read the speed sign and began to reduce speed, but then realized it wasn’t an actual speed sign. The actual speed sign was several meters later at which point the car slowed to the posted speed as it should.

I’ve never had my car phantom break for a phantom. It’s always done it because it’s interpreting something as a reason to brake; shadow, bird, garbage, sign, marks on the road, etc…

 

[Webeevdrivers]

Phantom braking occurs when using plain old cruise control. Last weekend I had to explain it to my friend when he asked why I hard braked on the highway for no reason. 2021 Model Y, no FSD, no EAP purchased.

It would be great to get feedback to Tesla. Please tell us how. There is no one you can call. There is not a feedback ability in the app. I've gone into showrooms, discussed how I'm a huge fan and very happy overall with the cars and would like to offer some feedback I think may be helpful. The staff are kind and listen but subtlety clue me in that the feedback can't get high up from them.

I have a concern with my model y range / battery / calibration. I've raised it 4 times through service in the past 2 years. Twice I received no response. The other 2 times I was told, "there are no errors showing for your battery" and ticket closed. Advertised epa range of 326 miles. 100% has been 280 for over a year. Yesterday I drove 50% charge around Phoenix. Half around 45mph, half around 70 mph. 112 miles. So an estimated range of 224 miles. My old Model s, 2013 p85+, had an estimated max range of 237 miles when I traded it in with over 130,000 miles on the odometer. I could get about 200 miles of real range from that.
I've tried to recalibrate by driving down to less than 10% and then charging. Both times I lost estimated max range.

Today I get about 220 miles of real range from a 2 year old Model y with 40,000 miles on the odometer and a display range of 280.

Can't get anyone from Tesla to actually look into it beyond checking the logs for a thrown error.

Again, huge fan, don't plan to buy anything else at this time, but how does feedback get to Tesla management?

Totally agree. An option for a 1970’s style cruise control where it just keeps the speed would be soooo nice. TACC and FSD at this point are no longer get useable for basic highway cruising. I get that this will get fixed someday but until then they need to make a basic cruise control available that is not affected by any sensor input. TACC used to be great but it is completely unuseable and potentially unsafe now. C’mon Elon. Turn back the clock 50 years and give us a working safe cruise control.

Jmho.

 

[jerry33]

To all those lamenting 360/Birdseyeview To all those lamenting 360/Birdseyeview - this was patented by Nissan if memory serves me. And it is still an active patent.

Having driven a Nissan Leaf since 2015, I can say that birds eue view adds no value. It’s really unusable. Now some of that may be die to the postage stamp size screen and some because the view is overlaid with boxes, but bottom line is neither Denise or I have found a use for it.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

I had a very mild phantom brake yesterday on TACC, until I realized the car was reading and interpreting a warning speed sign - because I circled back to see if it would do it again and if so could I figure out why.

There was a speed change coming up sign that was white surrounded by yellow. The car read the speed sign and began to reduce speed, but then realized it wasn’t an actual speed sign. The actual speed sign was several meters later at which point the car slowed to the posted speed as it should.

I’ve never had my car phantom break for a phantom. It’s always done it because it’s interpreting something as a reason to brake; shadow, bird, garbage, sign, marks on the road, etc…

Ours does this all the time on TACC. In BC where the roads are curvy these signs are common. One has to constantly correct back to the speed limit. Makes TACC unuseable.

 

[unk45]

I believe that the Tier 1 providing that system to that OEM is still paying a royalty, but probably negotiated lower than others due to the pending expiration of the patent.

Nope. The patent alternatives do exist.

 

[unk45]

Having driven a Nissan Leaf since 2015, I can say that birds eue view adds no value. It’s really unusable. Now some of that may be die to the postage stamp size screen and some because the view is overlaid with boxes, but bottom line is neither Denise or I have found a use for it.

That's why some other OEMs have found non-patent-evading ways to accomplish rather more and better functions than Nissan originally did.

 

[unk45]

To be fair, "He cares not a bit about 0-60 times, or playing games and streaming netflix in his car" are wonderful Tesla features.

Yes for those who use them. Not so much for all those people who've never played a game in their Tesla, stream Netflix at home and those odd people who've never once done a laugh in their Plaid S, and never had anybody turn on the rear seat screen. Those people find all those 'wonderful Tesla features" to be a waste of money and resources that could have been better devoted to things like working wipers, better situational awareness in parking and driving in tight spots etc.

Had I adolescents or infants in the car maybe I'd want the gimmicks.
Yes, it does beg the question of why I wanted a Plaid if I'm not using all that power. I did want superior motor design etc.

The message is that user preferences vary but basic motoring function is useful to all drivers, not subsets.

 

[bkp_duke]

That's why some other OEMs ahem found non-patent-evading ways to accomplish rather more and better functions than Nissan originally did.

The alternatives are patented.

EP2786917B1 - Birds-eye view parking assist system and method - Google Patents

That patent expires in 2034, and it's by a Tier 1 supplier to most major autos (Delphi).

The original Nissan patent is here (expired mid-2021):

CN202174989U - 360-degree full shot camera system for car parking - Google Patents

The utility model discloses a 360-degree full shot camera system for car parking, comprising cameras set on the car body and a display in the operator cabin; said cameras are four wide angle cameras, which are respectively installed on the grate position of the front part of the vehicle body, in...

patents.google.com

If there are enough "alternative" strategies patented, it limits what Tesla could possibly do without significant risk of infringement. Tesla would have some come up with something truly novel to supercede the patent, and even that may be similar enough to allow for litigation.


If you have links to "non-patent-evading ways" that other OEMs have accomplished this, without paying Delphi, please share them.

 

[UncaNed]

Phantom braking occurs when using plain old cruise control. Last weekend I had to explain it to my friend when he asked why I hard braked on the highway for no reason. 2021 Model Y, no FSD, no EAP purchased.

It would be great to get feedback to Tesla. Please tell us how. There is no one you can call. There is not a feedback ability in the app. I've gone into showrooms, discussed how I'm a huge fan and very happy overall with the cars and would like to offer some feedback I think may be helpful. The staff are kind and listen but subtlety clue me in that the feedback can't get high up from them.

I have a concern with my model y range / battery / calibration. I've raised it 4 times through service in the past 2 years. Twice I received no response. The other 2 times I was told, "there are no errors showing for your battery" and ticket closed. Advertised epa range of 326 miles. 100% has been 280 for over a year. Yesterday I drove 50% charge around Phoenix. Half around 45mph, half around 70 mph. 112 miles. So an estimated range of 224 miles. My old Model s, 2013 p85+, had an estimated max range of 237 miles when I traded it in with over 130,000 miles on the odometer. I could get about 200 miles of real range from that.
I've tried to recalibrate by driving down to less than 10% and then charging. Both times I lost estimated max range.

Today I get about 220 miles of real range from a 2 year old Model y with 40,000 miles on the odometer and a display range of 280.

Can't get anyone from Tesla to actually look into it beyond checking the logs for a thrown error.

Again, huge fan, don't plan to buy anything else at this time, but how does feedback get to Tesla management?

One thing you can do is schedule service via the APP for the latest available date, explaining the problem (in my case, my 2022 Plaid X stops and blocks my garage door when I try to summon it out to wash in the rain, something my 2018 X75D rarely did (I think it has ultrasound sensors)). I don't think we should have to expect this kind of technological regression from Tesla, so the service folks should take our complaints seriously enough to at least forward a complaint to Tesla.

From my experience, Tesla service tries very hard to help, and on more than one occasion after conversing with me in the Tesla APP service schedule message system, they diagnosed an apparent software problem to be a hardware problem (water in the charge port on my 2018 X75D caused some unexpected, unrelated issues elsewhere (suspension height setting issues))- mobile service replaced the charge port on warranty, and other problems fixed themselves. Unless they are just pretending, I think they actually do give feedback to Tesla.

They will help you as best they can, and if they can't help, at least you've established a detailed dialog with Tesla and they've sent accurate feedback.

-Then, if there's nothing they can do, don't forget to cancel the actual service appointment! If the process drags on, I'll keep rescheduling to the latest service date so it doesn't mess anyone up, because I'll be cancelling far ahead.

 

[Drumheller]

One thing you can do is schedule service via the APP for the latest available date, explaining the problem (in my case, my 2022 Plaid X stops and blocks my garage door when I try to summon it out to wash in the rain, something my 2018 X75D rarely did (I think it has ultrasound sensors)). I don't think we should have to expect this kind of technological regression from Tesla, so the service folks should take our complaints seriously enough to at least forward a complaint to Tesla.

From my experience, Tesla service tries very hard to help, and on more than one occasion after conversing with me in the Tesla APP service schedule message system, they diagnosed an apparent software problem to be a hardware problem (water in the charge port on my 2018 X75D caused some unexpected, unrelated issues elsewhere (suspension height setting issues))- mobile service replaced the charge port on warranty, and other problems fixed themselves. Unless they are just pretending, I think they actually do give feedback to Tesla.

They will help you as best they can, and if they can't help, at least you've established a detailed dialog with Tesla and they've sent accurate feedback.

-Then, if there's nothing they can do, don't forget to cancel the actual service appointment! If the process drags on, I'll keep rescheduling to the latest service date so it doesn't mess anyone up, because I'll be cancelling far ahead.

Thank you, but this is exactly what I have done 3 out of 4 occasions. I scheduled service in the app and explained the issue with detailed trips as best I could fit in the app text box. I received a message that no battery errors were found and the appt was canceled.

Last weekend I submitted another after having to stop and charge to make a round trip after leaving with 95% charge and driving 145 miles. When I submitted , it triggered a diagnostic. A few hours later I received a notice that low voltage battery needed replacement. Mobile service came out and changed it the next morning. Ticket closed. Nothing said about the range issue. So yesterday I tracked it again and happened to drive exactly from 90% to 40% and trip showed 112 miles driven.

 

[keydiver]

I'm curious as to what your wh/mile is showing during this drive. Does the math agree?

 

[Buckminster]

Has anyone counted them (yet)?

Asking for a friend.

These are going to Canada and not California. Makes more sense. Sawyer advised.

 

[Atomsla]

I had a very mild phantom brake yesterday on TACC, until I realized the car was reading and interpreting a warning speed sign - because I circled back to see if it would do it again and if so could I figure out why.

There was a speed change coming up sign that was white surrounded by yellow. The car read the speed sign and began to reduce speed, but then realized it wasn’t an actual speed sign. The actual speed sign was several meters later at which point the car slowed to the posted speed as it should.

I’ve never had my car phantom break for a phantom. It’s always done it because it’s interpreting something as a reason to brake; shadow, bird, garbage, sign, marks on the road, etc…

Not sure how this works in other countries, but in mine, road work areas have speed limit signs of 30kph present even when there is no work being done. everyone ignores them when there's no work done. Going to be some epic rage when self driving cars stick to those limits here.

 

[betstarship]

I haven't watched it yet, but Brighter With Herbert youtube channel has an interview with the very first TSLA bull on Wall Street, some of which you may know (and adore) - Andrea James:

I finished watching it just now - had no idea Tesla is reporting out Tesla Energy starting in Q3/Q4 in the earnings reports! Thanks for the share

 

[Drumheller]

I'm curious as to what your wh/mile is showing during this drive. Does the math agree?

I forgot to look at it last night. Will look next time.

I'll make this my last post on this subject as it is not on topic to this thread. I appreciate the responses. My hope is that communication will improve with Tesla service. I've been overall very happy with service, this situation and the rejection to my claim regarded the MCU1 replacement in my model s being exceptions.

 

[AudubonB]

If a person feels they have the above responsibility then don’t be posting complaints on TMC. Go DO something about it at that higher level. Plead your case to the people at the top and convince them they’re wrong.

People who complain do so for just a few reasons. In no particular order;

They’re ugly inside
They’re afraid/fearful
They feel helpless/lack the ability to control

Giving everyone here the benefit of the doubt, I’ll go with the last. In which case, accept you don’t have control and then make a different choice such as moving on. You’ll be happier for taking back your life.

If demand for Teslas actually fell off the cliff because all those average Joes made a different EV choice, Tesla would put back/fix the remedial options and be content with being just another OEM.

I actually think @unk45 has it right and Tesla is pushing for driverless cars at the expense of some of the little things. Driverless cars are a significant part of the mission - Tesla has told us so. We also know that Tesla feels purchase price is the next barrier to sales growth. To get to the price, some things clearly have to go/aren’t important in Tesla’s view. Doesn’t actually matter if we agree with any of this, it’s what Tesla is doing. Period. End of story.

Make your choices accordingly and be content with them. Going around in circles ignoring what the company has explicitly told us is dumb at best.

If you think you’re important enough to change the course and path of the company, get off this forum and show us all how big your hands are. If you’re able to significantly change the end goal of the company, I’ll be the first to take my money off the table.

So you’re wishing for me actually to sit on Tesla’s BoD, rather than as in some internet gedankenexperiment? Be careful for what you wish.