Tesla Virtual Power Plant in CA

[swedge]

Yeah, @wwhitney and @Redhill_qik are always correct. If someone thinks they're incorrect, then that somebody messed up somewhere heh.

I wish Tesla would show a log of the events in our app, and also a detail accounting along with the check. In the mean time, I figure it is like Santa Claus, magically bringing a surprise package, wrapped in mystery. So I try to be a good boy and wait to see what happens. ;-)

In truth, I did back check when I received the the check for last year. I found the event dates somewhere, scrolled back in the App, noted the kWh and found they had in fact paid me $2 for each one. If I recall correctly, it was not exactly $2, but very close. However I was too lazy to take notes, and so I don't recall if it was discharge kWh or export kWh. Sorry. Like I said above, I wish Tesla would give us logs of our VPP activity.

Oh, and the PG&E bills for those months included NEM credit for the VPP kWh, and they were during peak rate periods. So delaying export till the event started was the right tactic, $ wise.

 

[holeydonut]

I wish Tesla would show a log of the events in our app, and also a detail accounting along with the check. In the mean time, I figure it is like Santa Claus, magically bringing a surprise package, wrapped in mystery. So I try to be a good boy and wait to see what happens. ;-)

In truth, I did back check when I received the the check for last year. I found the event dates somewhere, scrolled back in the App, noted the kWh and found they had in fact paid me $2 for each one. If I recall correctly, it was not exactly $2, but very close. However I was too lazy to take notes, and so I don't recall if it was discharge kWh or export kWh. Sorry. Like I said above, I wish Tesla would give us logs of our VPP activity.

Oh, and the PG&E bills for those months included NEM credit for the VPP kWh, and they were during peak rate periods. So delaying export till the event started was the right tactic, $ wise.

Can you imagine if someone (or some AI) running the VPP messed up and forgot to report the baseline usage; so everyone always made the full delta between zero and whatever they exported during the VPP?

 

[charlesj]

Hi Redhill_qik, thanks, so it's showing discharged of 12.5kwh. I'm assuming I will get $25 from last nite's VPP.

...

Keep track of what you think you contributed for each event, and you can see next year what you get paid for. I did that last year, created a note on phone after each event. For me, it came out correct.

 

[sorka]

Please identify any criteria in the above that states that only the Powerwall energy that goes to the grid is compensated. Instead you will see these statements:

• compensate you $2 for every additional kWh that your Powerwall delivers during an event beyond typical behavior
• How much your Powerwall would typically charge or discharge during the event time

The "typical" qualifier refers to the baseline portion that is subtracted from what the Powerwall actually discharged during the VPP event.

My check last year was exactly to the dollar double the number kWH I exported during the events. Powerwall + solar - home usage. Perhaps it will be different this year. In addition, I go full NEM credit on my cumulative B&W bill so basically double dipping.

 

[Redhill_qik]

My check last year was exactly to the dollar double the number kWH I exported during the events. Powerwall + solar - home usage. Perhaps it will be different this year. In addition, I go full NEM credit on my cumulative B&W bill so basically double dipping.

My VPP check was for $332.97 and according to the 5 minute data I pulled from the Tesla app the Powerwall discharged 193.15 kWh and I just went back in to Tesla app to get the single day number and that was 194.8 kWh, so at $2/kWh discharge only it should have been $386.32 or $389.60. Maybe your numbers are wrong or maybe the system dropped your baseline discharge amounts. I don't know why your's came out the way that it did, but that isn't the way the program is documented to work and it definitely isn't the way that it work for me.

The participation in the VPP has no impact on the NEM credits for grid exports.

 

[sorka]

My VPP check was for $332.97 and according to the 5 minute data I pulled from the Tesla app the Powerwall discharged 193.15 kWh and I just went back in to Tesla app to get the single day number and that was 194.8 kWh, so at $2/kWh discharge only it should have been $386.32 or $389.60. Maybe your numbers are wrong or maybe the system dropped your baseline discharge amounts. I don't know why your's came out the way that it did, but that isn't the way the program is documented to work and it definitely isn't the way that it work for me.

The participation in the VPP has no impact on the NEM credits for grid exports.

I was surprised for sure. It should have been about $35 less than it was.

 

[sorka]

BTW, even if changed this year, it will be different for me as I've been on self consumption mode in the last 3 months since I've been a large net producer and I realized I could eliminate NBCs. Up until last month, this meant not importing a single kwh since I was making more solar than the house was using and on self consumption mode, I'd just run on PW when the sun wasn't shining.

But since the heat wave hit, we've been a net consumer but only by just a little bit but we shift to exporting 0 kWh every and instead using a net 5 to 10 kwh per day...so for the last 10 days, my average exported to the grid outside of the events has been 0.

Still going to leave about 1.2 mwh on the grid at the end of trueup in a few days. Still trying to figure out if I get any kind of wholesale payout on that.

 

[charlesj]

My check last year was exactly to the dollar double the number kWH I exported during the events. Powerwall + solar - home usage. Perhaps it will be different this year. In addition, I go full NEM credit on my cumulative B&W bill so basically double dipping.

I would think that the monthly bill/credit goes by meter reading. It doesn't know details of it, just times and quantities.

 

[Benjamin Brooks]

My VPP check was for $332.97 and according to the 5 minute data I pulled from the Tesla app the Powerwall discharged 193.15 kWh and I just went back in to Tesla app to get the single day number and that was 194.8 kWh, so at $2/kWh discharge only it should have been $386.32 or $389.60. Maybe your numbers are wrong or maybe the system dropped your baseline discharge amounts. I don't know why your's came out the way that it did, but that isn't the way the program is documented to work and it definitely isn't the way that it work for me.

The participation in the VPP has no impact on the NEM credits for grid exports.

Yeah, my check for 2022 was like @sorka's experience. Just double the Powerwall energy exports. I logged each event in the app and on Powerwall dashboard. Weird that people are getting things to add up differently in their VPP rebates, which is why I thought it was only Powerwall energy exports.

 

[sorka]

Yeah, my check for 2022 was like @sorka's experience. Just double the Powerwall energy exports. I logged each event in the app and on Powerwall dashboard. Weird that people are getting things to add up differently in their VPP rebates, which is why I thought it was only Powerwall energy exports.

Yea, Just realized I was remembering wrong. My check was double the kwh on the powerwall export, not the combined export of PW+Solar - Home.

 

[Benjamin Brooks]

Yea, Just realized I was remembering wrong. My check was double the kwh on the powerwall export, not the combined export of PW+Solar - Home.

I meant $2 multiplied by Powerwall exports to grid only, none for what discharged to the home. I tracked that in Powerwall dashboard as well, and for sure my home usage was non-zero during the event days with my AC units running...

 

[sorka]

I meant $2 multiplied by Powerwall exports to grid only, none for what discharged to the home. I tracked that in Powerwall dashboard as well, and for sure my home usage was non-zero during the event days with my AC units running...

Which I think is what I have above. Grid export total per 5 minutes minus the solar so it only counts PW exports.

So if the rule is enforced as it's written, then I should get a larger check because all of the PW + the solar exported would count if my previous 10 day average was 0 kwh exported during the same hours on none event days.

 

[Benjamin Brooks]

Which I think is what I have above. Grid export total per 5 minutes minus the solar so it only counts PW exports.

So if the rule is enforced as it's written, then I should get a larger check because all of the PW + the solar exported would count if my previous 10 day average was 0 kwh exported during the same hours on none event days.

Guess Tesla figured that your and my "typical behavior" during those VPP event windows 2022 was exactly our home loads during said windows.

 

[Benjamin Brooks]

But I guess it is indeed intended to be more complicated to calculate, since apparently Tesla recently (today?) removed their example scenarios on their VPP info pages... although Google still shows them in the search result previews

 

[swedge]

I would think that the monthly bill/credit goes by meter reading. It doesn't know details of it, just times and quantities.

My understanding is that it is Tesla's data, not the utility meter that are used in VPP compensation accounting. PW knows solar, battery and grid flows, and calculated the home consumption. Exactly which of these is used in the VPP credit and the baseline seem to not have been clearly documented. Tesla's lack of VPP event logging and detailed credit documentation result in confusion and in uncertainty as to tactics to maximize the benifits.

 

[charlesj]

My understanding is that it is Tesla's data, not the utility meter that are used in VPP compensation accounting.

That part we agree on. The utility is what I was thinking about not knowing where all that back feed goes to, only time it went if that matters to the billing
one is on and quantity.

 

[montreid]

Utilities should have plenty of information on VPP on how it stabilizes the grid reliably with set energy. It's interesting how VPP hours last 3 while most PW2 will only last 2-2.5 hours at full discharge. The real question lies in this: is VPP economically comparable to the utilities AND Tesla? If utilities like the source, they will ask Tesla for more. Tesla can be greedy and lower reimbursements to squeeze the margins -- or double down and open up the Tesla PW2 interconnect to his EVs -- creating a much larger footprint potential and the true power of battery storage to smooth demand/supply.

 

[swedge]

Utilities should have plenty of information on VPP on how it stabilizes the grid reliably with set energy. It's interesting how VPP hours last 3 while most PW2 will only last 2-2.5 hours at full discharge. The real question lies in this: is VPP economically comparable to the utilities AND Tesla? If utilities like the source, they will ask Tesla for more. Tesla can be greedy and lower reimbursements to squeeze the margins -- or double down and open up the Tesla PW2 interconnect to his EVs -- creating a much larger footprint potential and the true power of battery storage to smooth demand/supply.

The utilities' alternative is rolling blackouts, in which case they loose the revenue from all the customers they shut down. VPP, while crazy expensive for utilities is probably far less costly than the lost revenue would be. Tesla may be taking a cut, but as a marketable feature it may be worth plenty. PowerWall purchase is difficult to justify economically, so a small boost can be a big deal, and the nobility of keeping your neighbors lights on too is icing on the cake.

The traditional alternative for the utilities would be adding generation and distribution capacity, or their own batteries. PG&E in fact has a large battery at Moss Landing already, as an example. But the utilization of those infrastructure assets is only a few hours per year, and hence terrible ROI.

So, strange as it seems, VPP may actually be a win, win, win, win, i.e. for utilities, storage owners, Tesla and other customers.

Like NEM, VPP may be a clever business adaptation to this new technology. Sadly, utilities would prefer the capital intensive solution because regulators give them guaranteed ROIs and profit margins.

 

[power.saver]

Sadly, utilities would prefer the capital intensive solution because regulators give them guaranteed ROIs and profit margins.

I would gladly give them 10% of the $2/kWh if they want to pay for my Powerwalls as a capital investment.

 

[holeydonut]

Are they basically doing VPP every day now? Like I feel these events have been discharging every day for the past 2 weeks even when it wasn’t that hot outside.

I can’t even tell where I’m going to be at from a NEM perspective any more lol. All these credits with peak time exports.