charlesj
Active Member
I don't have times just days and kWh:
Jul 20 3.6kWh
Jul 25 5
Jul 26 12
Aug 28 12
Aug 29 18
Aug 30 12
All late afternoon for sure.
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Tesla Virtual Power Plant in CA
- Thread starter power.saver
- Start date
Jul 20 3.6kWh
Jul 25 5
Jul 26 12
Aug 28 12
Aug 29 18
Aug 30 12
All late afternoon for sure.
Ok, so you don't have 20+ hours, but 20+ kWh which is a different thing.
Your days match the days in the table I posted earlier, but those days had a total of 16 hours and with 4 hours for today it gets to the VPP minimum of 20 hours.Assuming PGE pays for everything, payout across 6000 customers is pretty much a drop in the bucket for the 20 hour minimum. Just got an email from them to expect my winter rates to be higher again.Ok, so you don't have 20+ hours, but 20+ kWh which is a different thing.
charlesj
Active Member
Ooops, yep, wrong data.Ok, so you don't have 20+ hours, but 20+ kWh which is a different thing.
There was a wide range ($100-$500) in the reported check payments from Tesla. I think the likely average was around $225, so for PG&E that would be only $1.35M. So, yes a drop in the bucket.
I hate getting emails like that from PG&E. It is going to be higher, but we can't tell you how high.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
I am in SD&E territory, and just got an invite on the Tesla App for VPP.
I've been doing OhmConnect, since the VPP wasn't available. I'm assuming that my application to Tesla VPP will push me out of OhmConnect (perfectly fine with that), correct?
Also, anyone know the typical timeframe from application to VPP to admission?
I've been doing OhmConnect, since the VPP wasn't available. I'm assuming that my application to Tesla VPP will push me out of OhmConnect (perfectly fine with that), correct?
Also, anyone know the typical timeframe from application to VPP to admission?
charlesj
Active Member
charlesj
Active Member
And today the weather is not cooperating to recharge battery.
Doesn't look like the rest of today will be better.
Doesn't look like the rest of today will be better.
VPP events used to precharge the batteries from grid as well, seems they stopped doing that this year?And today the weather is not cooperating to recharge battery.
Doesn't look like the rest of today will be better.
A VPP event would pre-charge the battery if the Powerwall software didn't think that it would get 100% before the start time from just solar. Since there isn't a VPP event today the VPP specific software function won't pre-charge the battery from the grid and it is a normal charging cycle. Maybe it gets to 100%, maybe it won't.
My normal reserve is set to 85% for a light discharge during Peak and during the VPP it was set to 5% (23.8 kWh discharge). I'm currently at 59% at 2:30pm and I'm unlikely to get to 100% in the next 90 minutes. My options are to just not discharge during Peak today or if I want to get the same 15% discharge (3.5 kWh) to drop my reserve level to 15% below the charge level at 4:00pm when Peak starts.
charlesj
Active Member
I am sure it would but mine were almost 100% as VPP started but went down with 18kWh draw and home use. I set reserve at 25% at VPP time.
We were supposed to have a good sunny day but didn't happen so SOC is 32% as I type and not much charging is happening, cloudy.
My enrollment was active for several VPP events and the app said it was discharging to support the grid, but the behavior was exactly like normal TBC, supporting the house loads and allowing solar export from 3pm-midnight. No battery energy to the grid at all.
My new solar is finally being installed this week by the same company that installed my Powerwalls 5+ years ago, so when I am making sure that everything is working post-install, I will ask them about my export limit setting in the Gateway and its possible interaction with the VPP.
My new solar is finally being installed this week by the same company that installed my Powerwalls 5+ years ago, so when I am making sure that everything is working post-install, I will ask them about my export limit setting in the Gateway and its possible interaction with the VPP.
How much do you think is the true cost of the energy exported at 7pm to 9pm per kWh? Since Sunrun put me on a permanent VPP in August + September, I'm a net exporter during peak time.
August net was 540 kWh peak-time exported for me. Since this is just an energy-shift from off-peak usage to a peak-time credit, that's a TOU differential of about $0.30 per kWh (transmission plus generation less NBC).
So that's only $152 of NEM Credits. Hypothetically if I could duplicate that for September (unlikely, but possible) that means another ~$148 of NEM Credits this month.
Sunrun gave me $750 cash to participate in this.
So total cash + NEM credits will be around $1,050. If Sunrun makes $2.00 per kWh for their VPP sell-back to PG&E from 7pm to 9pm, they're effectively passing $1.00 per kWh of value (cash + NEM credit assuming 1,000 kWh from my 2-month participation) to me through their VPP. So is this a good thing for me or am I getting hosed? haha.
Was Tesla actually passing the full $2.00 per kWh to everybody last year and this year?
You are assuming Sunrun is in the same DRP program/category as Tesla VPP to get $2/kwh, it is not. OhmConnect, Tesla, Sunrun are in completely different programs, the only commonality is all still get regular NEM credits for export per net metering. But if you follow this link, Sunrun's contract is in the EESRP program:
https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/adviceletter/ELEC_6807-E.pdf
Sunrun is being paid a flat $10.5 million for two years of demand response. Specifically, it looks like 30MW export (load reduction), for 7-9 pm for Aug-Oct (~90 days/year) in 2023 and 2024. If I worked out the math correctly, Sunrun gets $0.972/kwh of demand response, but that's not what you get.
You're getting a flat $750, is that for just 2023, or for both 2023 an 2024? I didn't look up from your other posts what your PW export kw is, but you can work out your effective $/kwh. Might be better than $0.972/kwh, or $2/kwh, or worse.
But that's not the whole story, the real question is how much can you make total per year? 90 days x 2 hrs = 180 demand response hrs per year. That could be far more hrs than minimum 20 Tesla VPP days x 4 hrs per event = 80 demand response hours. OhmConnect is somewhere in the middle, more like about 100 OhmHours per calendar year, at about $1.20-1.40/kwh
So you total potential annual earn for each program is (annual demand response hours) x (export rate or limit in kw during event hours) x ($ earn rate per kwh). All three are totally different between Sunrun, Tesla VPP, OhmConnect. (Note I've ignored NEM credits, because again you still get them the same for ANY export, and you get them within an event hour, or Export Everything outside any event hours - so it's really not part of a DRP / VPP compensation).
EDIT: I just noticed you said 540 kwh exported in August, if we assume the same for Sept and October, that's 1620 kwh/year. If $750 is per year, that's only $0.46/kwh, which is far less than Tesla or OhmConnect per kwh. But far more automated exports total than the other programs, i.e. most folks made less than $750/year from Tesla, because they exported less? So what's more important, the compensation rate, or total compensation earned?
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Wow that doc is very informative, thanks!
The $750 cash was just a 2023 initiative. I think in 2024 there's a different program. The weird part of Sunrun's thing is they never actually stated how much energy I had to export. And the program doesn't actually have that much of a benefit since my VPP disrupts normal battery function in favor of maximizing export from 7pm to 9pm.
For the entirety of the 4pm to 9pm peak window, there is only a net of 5 kWh more suds being pushed back to the grid each day. Because what ends up happening is my house now consumes energy from the grid between 4pm and 7pm. Then the batteries discharge at like 14 kW for 2 hours from 7pm to 9pm. This covers home loads with the excess going across the meter.
So overall I feel like unless 7pm to 9pm were some mega-stress peak times, all I'm doing is basically tiring out the Powerwall inverters with a 2 hour sustained discharge hah.
Also, the ability to generate extra NEM credit with peak-time export is only something I can do with the VPP. So the value is coming from somewhere right? If it's not Sunrun's $10.5mm then it's probably within the reconciliation item when they create the TOU rates to bill people.
Same @miimura, VPP events have been "broken" for me (effectively TBC mode when I'm set to self powered, and no battery discharging to grid), ever since Tesla changed their VPP behavior to limit the the battery discharge power from maximum export power to a power level that can be sustained for the entire VPP event period.
charlesj
Active Member
Interesting. I am in self-powered mode and dumped at 4kW with a small drop here and there only.
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