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Tesla: we need more control over our PowerWalls
- Thread starter Ulmo
- Start date
I think you are talking about something different than what @alexguichet is mentioning. While we could select rate plans before, Tesla seems to be announcing some new functionality around selecting rate plans in version 4.2 of the tesla app.
I just downloaded version 4.2 yesterday, but do not have the "utility rate plan" shown in teslas website linked above in my settings. I am hopeful that it appears soon.
There also appears to be some other functionality that has been repeatedly asked for, at least according to the release notes when I installed the app yesterday, which I will post below:
These release notes specifically call out 'MULTIPLE PEAK PERIODS" which is something that people have been clamoring for, for quite some time.
Like I mentioned, the utility setting did not appear in my app after downloading, but this is actually pretty big news IMO.
I'm guilty of not reading the original article
and now that I have, I do see that the 4.2 functionality is supposed to increase significantly. I'm still on 4.1.1 so I can't see any of this yet. You mentioned that you can't see the utility info yet in your 4.2, did you look under both Impact and Settings? The article mentioned that it should be in Settings, but in 4.1.1 it is under Impact.I'm guilty of not reading the original article
its still under impact in the version 4.2 that I have now, but that article also specifies that its rolling out October and November 2021, and that some features might require a specific powerwall version later than what I have currently, so I expect it will show up at some point in the future for me.
This is active for me right now. There is a lot more flexibility in the setup of TOU (a "lot lot"). I have said before that I am on a domestic, tiered plan, so at least for now, dont have much need for TOU settings myself. With that being said, You can have multiple seasons (summer / winter), input the price of your kWhs, have more than 1 peak period, etc.
You can also simply put in a fixed rate for your energy. The utilities pre loaded in there seem to be california ones, but since there is a "custom" choice, it appears to me that anyone who is willing to input their information will be able to set this up in their app how they want.
I dont know how this interacts with the actual powerwall discharge, because I use self powered (and dont want to put myself in TOU mode and increase my own costs while testing), but am looking forward to seeing feedback from others who do use those modes when this goes live for them.
This is a pretty impactful change, imo, and one that I think will end up being welcome by many who wanted more input into setting up their TOU in the app.
Damn it. I had selected the PG&E E-TOU-C rate when play with the all today I let be applied to "optimize" my Powerwalls. The settings looked right, still time based control, peak was 4:00-9:00pm off peak was 9:00pm-4:00pm. However, no Powerwall discharge during peak today!
Using the Edit Custom Rate button, there was no data populated even though the periods were on the previous page. I add the periods back to match the E-TOU-C period and I'm crossing my fingers for tomorrow.
Check under the IMPACT tab. With that being said, the previous selections may only be available in CA, and they also did not really provide anything like the new settings. The only utilities in the impact tab in pre 4.2 are CA ones.
Thanks for sharing! Is there a way to input not only the cost of my TOU grid pricing, but the buyback rate from my utility? Offpeak, i'm paying .13kWh but my "buyback" rate is only .069kWh and during self powered, Tesla is generally sending solar to the PW (good) and then to the utility (bad) when it could be powering my house because I don't think it recognizes there is a delta in my to/from grid rates. It's a small delta, and in the grand scheme, it's successfully keeping me from pulling off the grid during peak hours (.50 kWh).
As someone who really misses balanced mode, i'm hopeful that this new approach is a sign of a more nuanced future for Time Based.
Thanks!
There is a "buy" text entry box, and a "sell" text entry box when you are entering utility pricing. Note that I havent played with that much because I am on a domestic plan, but those boxes are there. I am not currently sure what the interaction is supposed to be with them. What I mean is, I am not sure if those boxes are there to calculate "solar savings" or, to calculate solar savings AND "do something" related to powerwall operation.
They are there, though.
There is! You can adjust both buy and sell values if you'd like to influence some TBC behavior too.
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This appears to be good news. It's not exactly what I have been asking/hoping for but it could be close enough to be workable. Oct 31st is the last day of my utility demand plan's summer season. Hopefully I get the updates before then. I figure the best way to configure my custom plan is to use the demand plan price ($5.27) as the sell price. Hopefully that would discourage the grid pulls and powerwall to grid exports importing during peak. It's all just hopes and wishes until I can see it in action.Breaking news in App v4.2:
Utility Rate Plans | Tesla Support
The Tesla app allows you to add your utility rate plan for more accurate value calculation estimates and system optimization.www.tesla.com
Without knowing how the algorithm will respond to the buy/sell rates per periods, I have concerns.There is! You can adjust both buy and sell values if you'd like to influence some TBC behavior too.
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I am PG&E NEM 2.0 with SVCE (2017 Vintage for PCIA) on the E-TOU-C plan with the GreenPrime option, so that is a lot to take into consideration. I also have two Powerwalls and will be a net generator until I transition to an EV.
I have spent a considerable amount of time analyzing the PG&E tariff rates (BTW, they change multiple times a year when PG&E gets new increases approved by CPUC), how PG&E interplays with a Community Choice Aggregator, my PCIA rate, my CCA generation rate, my CCA net generation rates and the NEM 2.0 rules for Non-Bypassable Charges (NBC), Minimum Daily Charges (MDC) for annual True-Up. I have a firm grasp on how everything is calculated, but it is quite complicated and makes my head hurt at times. At some point I will create a TED talk on this, but it will have an audience of less than ten and nine of those will drop off after less then 3 minutes.
Breaking down to the basics, I want to do the following to generate as much NEM credit and SVCE generation credit as I can while also reducing my grid reliance:
- Minimize the amount of grid usage during Peak
- Maximize the amount of solar-to-grid export during Peak
- Recharge Powerwalls to 100% before Peak or Partial-Peak/Mid-Peak/Shoulder while minimizing grid imports that are subject to NBCs
Goal 3 was realized with the original TBC Balanced mode, but I had to switch back-and-forth over the day. With the wealth of data that is available this can be done by an algorithm which is not what I would call machine learning, but if that makes the marketing types happy sure call it that.
- The system knows where my solar is located
- The system can get the cloud/solar weather for my location on an hourly basis
- The system knows how much solar was generated by hour for my system over the past day, week, month (takes into account panel placement, aging and shading)
- Knowing 2 & 3 allows for the generation of a first order model of how much solar will be generated based on cloud/solar weather by hour
- The system can get the predicted hourly cloud/solar weather for my location for the current day
- With 4 and 5 the system can predict how much solar will be generated for the current day and determine if solar can be used for the house load while still allowing 100% Powerwall charge by Peak or Partial-Peak time.
- Solar priority ordering for House, Powerwall, or Grid (any order)
- Powerwall status Charge To 100%, Discharge To Reserve, Standby (one selection)
- Off-Peak
- 1 = House, 2 = Powerwall, 3 = Grid
- Powerwall = Charge To 100%
- Peak
- 3 = Grid, 2 = House, 1 = Powerwall
- Powerwall = Discharge To Reserve
I would be the tenth. I have gone through the same study and wrote my own program to recalculate my PG&E bills under the existing rate schedule and alternatives to compare. I am subscribed to the PG&E advice letter email list so I see the rate changes and can feed those as inputs to the program. But my last update to it was two years ago and there have been additional changes to the billing methods since then. Also, I can't match the bills to the penny because the Green Button usage data is not exactly the same as the numbers that PG&E uses internally to calculate the bills.I have spent a considerable amount of time analyzing the PG&E tariff rates (BTW, they change multiple times a year when PG&E gets new increases approved by CPUC), how PG&E interplays with a Community Choice Aggregator, my PCIA rate, my CCA generation rate, my CCA net generation rates and the NEM 2.0 rules for Non-Bypassable Charges (NBC), Minimum Daily Charges (MDC) for annual True-Up. I have a firm grasp on how everything is calculated, but it is quite complicated and makes my head hurt at times. At some point I will create a TED talk on this, but it will have an audience of less than ten and nine of those will drop off after less then 3 minutes.
I’m in the U.K. and on v4.2. My app however does not have the ability to set the cost of each rate plan. The last week the system has been HOPELESS at predicting any usage vs generation getting it wrong every single day. My off peak cost is 3 times less than my peak so I was hoping setting rates might make it more intelligent in exploiting this.
Sorry you're still having troubleGdotp. I'm still controlling mine manually during the night......
How did you get the updated version of the app (4.2)? I've been to the Playstore but it only shows the current version that I already have......
My powerwall was delivered on the 6th June 2017 and I have kept a detailed record for each winter, and every year the powerwall performed very poorly, it does not learn.
I am currently still in self powered mode, but will have to switch to time based control soon. I have been complaining to Tesla about the lack of control and the exceptionally poor performance of the time based control since the app was first issued; and have been involved in testing two trial versions, the last in March this year to allegedly improve the performance in the UK. So I am very disappointed to see the same old complaints occuring again.
In my experience if we have a sunny day it assumes the next three days will be sunny. In other words it looks at the previous three days and assumes the best solar production in that period for the current days solar forecast. Has anyone else observed a similar behaviour?
To encourage the powerwall to draw more from the grid in off-peak I do what John Ratsey recommended some time ago, and that is extend the peak period into the night and delay the start of off-peak. This attempts to con the powerwall that it needs to store more energy to cover peak period. This does work, though it often fails to supply all the extended peak period it does cover the actual period. However if we get a good sunny day it will still fail for the next three days.
Does anyone else have any ideas to persuade the powerwall to charge in off-peak?
Tesla have lost sales due to this lack of control as I have been asked by quite a few interested parties and I honestly reply that it is great for seven months of the year when I am self sufficient, but for the remainder of the year it forces me to use peak energy (and therefore more polluting) when I would have put significantly more off-peak energy into the powerwall.
I am currently still in self powered mode, but will have to switch to time based control soon. I have been complaining to Tesla about the lack of control and the exceptionally poor performance of the time based control since the app was first issued; and have been involved in testing two trial versions, the last in March this year to allegedly improve the performance in the UK. So I am very disappointed to see the same old complaints occuring again.
In my experience if we have a sunny day it assumes the next three days will be sunny. In other words it looks at the previous three days and assumes the best solar production in that period for the current days solar forecast. Has anyone else observed a similar behaviour?
To encourage the powerwall to draw more from the grid in off-peak I do what John Ratsey recommended some time ago, and that is extend the peak period into the night and delay the start of off-peak. This attempts to con the powerwall that it needs to store more energy to cover peak period. This does work, though it often fails to supply all the extended peak period it does cover the actual period. However if we get a good sunny day it will still fail for the next three days.
Does anyone else have any ideas to persuade the powerwall to charge in off-peak?
Tesla have lost sales due to this lack of control as I have been asked by quite a few interested parties and I honestly reply that it is great for seven months of the year when I am self sufficient, but for the remainder of the year it forces me to use peak energy (and therefore more polluting) when I would have put significantly more off-peak energy into the powerwall.
We probably need a separate thread for non US people to discuss this , as in the US we can not charge from the grid at will at all with powerwalls. All charging that isnt "stormwatch" is from solar, in the US. Unless or until we in the US can charge from the grid on demand, that part of the discussion doesnt apply to us here.
Its certainly possible Tesla has lost sales over the issue, but at this current time (with backorders in the months) it hasnt impacted them, thats for sure.
Its certainly possible Tesla has lost sales over the issue, but at this current time (with backorders in the months) it hasnt impacted them, thats for sure.
