The New Chevy Bolt vs Tesla Model 3: Which is better EV?

[N5329K]

"He says he would have some respect for Tesla if their FIRST CAR had been less than $25,000 -- that would PROVE that they were a REAL manufacturer if they were willing to compete in that space. "
Good story, bro, but that's not how innovation diffusion works. There's a reason (or many) why every EV manufacturer who tried to bring out a cheap car for the masses is no longer with us.
Robin

 

[Red Sage]

"He says he would have some respect for Tesla if their FIRST CAR had been less than $25,000 -- that would PROVE that they were a REAL manufacturer if they were willing to compete in that space. "
Good story, bro, but that's not how innovation diffusion works. There's a reason (or many) why every EV manufacturer who tried to bring out a cheap car for the masses is no longer with us.

Yup! There's also a reason why it took better than 25 years for Hyundai to reach the top ten in US sales on a consistent basis. The poor reputation of their original bargain basement vehicles carried over for a couple of decades, even after the cars they offered were greatly improved, and on par with the best in class. At least they were backed up by HYUNDAI Heavy Industry and the Korean government. Tesla Motors can't wait that long, doesn't have a Sugar Daddy to support them through hard times, and in the political environment of the US couldn't possibly rely on government support for even a fraction of the time. Working from the bottom up is a great idea, if you are playing the long game using ancient technology and have generous support from others. Not at all advised if you are a fast moving technology company breaking into an established field with plenty of competitors with deeper pockets.

 

[SageBrush]

He says that GM ... ... are in the business of making money, not throwing it down the drain

Ahh... if only that was true. The US government throws money at GM in so many ways it is hard to keep track, but in the past decade I think it approaches $100 Billion

 

[Reeler]

The best one is the one that can actually be purchased. It sucks right now as neither are available.

I will probably buy a Bolt as it looks like a decent car. I also have a couple Model 3s on order too.

 

[Garlan Garner]

The question of this post is kinda wrong. Its kinda like asking what car is better the Ford Focus EV or the Tesla Model X.

The M3 will be better simply because its in a different/higher class.

The M3 is in the class with the Audi A3, BMW 3 series and such.


Maybe someone knows what class the Bolt is in.....sub compact?

 

[McRat]

The question of this post is kinda wrong. Its kinda like asking what car is better the Ford Focus EV or the Tesla Model X.

The M3 will be better simply because its in a different/higher class.

The M3 is in the class with the Audi A3, BMW 3 series and such.


Maybe someone knows what class the Bolt is in.....sub compact?

Small station wagon. Journalists describe the front and rear seating as roomy.

Compare Side-by-Side

You must absolutely love Audi to buy the A3 PHEV. Slow when running on electricity, small, poor economy, expensive.

 

[Red Sage]

The M3 will be better simply because its in a different/higher class.

The M3 is in the class with the Audi A3, BMW 3 series and such.

Isn't the A3 just a GOLF in better clothing? Really though, the Model ☰ will compete against the Acura TLX, Alfa Romeo Giulia, AUDI A4, BMW 3-Series, Cadillac ATS, Infiniti Q50, Jaguar XE, Lexus IS, and Mercedes-Benz C-Class. Thing is...? I'm not so sure those cars are truly all that much 'better' than the Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic, Hyundai Elantra, Ford Focus, Chevrolet CRUZE, or Volkswagen Jetta. It seems to be more about rear wheel drive or all wheel drive versus front wheel drive as a consideration, along with the perceived 'quality' of various 'luxury' appointments. For those who haven't been willing to 'upgrade' to the so-called 'entry-level luxury' level of vehicles before, the Tesla Model S may well provide the impetus for doing so. Likely because first impressions behind the wheel (or Command & Control Center) will show an immediate difference compared to ICE vehicles.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Isn't the A3 just a GOLF in better clothing? Really though, the Model ☰ will compete against the Acura TLX, Alfa Romeo Giulia, AUDI A4, BMW 3-Series, Cadillac ATS, Infiniti Q50, Jaguar XE, Lexus IS, and Mercedes-Benz C-Class. Thing is...? I'm not so sure those cars are truly all that much 'better' than the Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic, Hyundai Elantra, Ford Focus, Chevrolet CRUZE, or Volkswagen Jetta. It seems to be more about rear wheel drive or all wheel drive versus front wheel drive as a consideration, along with the perceived 'quality' of various 'luxury' appointments. For those who haven't been willing to 'upgrade' to the so-called 'entry-level luxury' level of vehicles before, the Tesla Model S may well provide the impetus for doing so. Likely because first impressions behind the wheel (or Command & Control Center) will show an immediate difference compared to ICE vehicles.

Ok Ok. The A4 and not the A3.

My point was....the bolt and the M≡ are in different classes. The M≡ is closer to the bolt in luxury as it is in performance. As we all know there are many factors that contribute to an EV car being "better" than another one. Style, Performance, Endurances, Range, Options, etc. If we bundle all factors together the M≡ won't be close to the bolt. I'm not a non-thinking Tesla fan. Its just true. The BMW 7 series is far more luxurious than the MS will ever be, but the MS will blow the BMW 7 series away in Performance. One has to weigh all factors to say that a car is better than the other. I am not currently aware of any factor that the Bolt will beat the M≡ in.

 

[dsvick]

"Better", at least in the case here, can also be very subjective. The M3 may surpass the Bolt in some specific, measurable things but if the potential buyer wants a hatchback above all else, then the Bolt will be better for them. Just because a car is in a class that some perceive as more luxurious or that has a higher price point doesn't mean it's better than a car that isn't in the same class.

Personally, I think they did a nice job on the Bolt but I think it's over-priced for what you're getting as well as ugly, but that's just my opinion, many others will like it (the car not my opinion).

 

[Garlan Garner]

"Better", at least in the case here, can also be very subjective. The M3 may surpass the Bolt in some specific, measurable things but if the potential buyer wants a hatchback above all else, then the Bolt will be better for them. Just because a car is in a class that some perceive as more luxurious or that has a higher price point doesn't mean it's better than a car that isn't in the same class.

Personally, I think they did a nice job on the Bolt but I think it's over-priced for what you're getting as well as ugly, but that's just my opinion, many others will like it (the car not my opinion).

I disagree.

For example:

0-60 acceleration times. We know the M≡ will have a much quicker time than the bolt. If a person could care less about 0-60 times.....it does not make it a non-issue. The fact that a person does not care about a quicker car does not make the cars even in performance. It just means that the person looking at cars does not care about that feature.

We are comparing cars. We aren't comparing what people want or like. Feature for feature - what do the cars have. That's NOT a subjective subject. I would hope that even if you don't care about 0-60 times you would have to rate the M3 as better in that category. Then continue down the features and say which car is better based on facts. Afterwards - take the liberty to voice personal likes/dislikes.

0-60 is not subjective
range is not subjective
size is not subjective
weight is not subjective
leather vs cloth is not subjective
price is not subjective.

The question at hand is what is a better car based on facts - NOT - what do people want/like.

When seeking out a purchase - such as a car - I want the facts .... not opinions. I have enough opinions of my own....I don't need more.

 

[dsvick]

0-60 is not subjective
range is not subjective
size is not subjective
weight is not subjective
leather vs cloth is not subjective
price is not subjective.

The question at hand is what is a better car based on facts - NOT - what do people want/like.

When seeking out a purchase - such as a car - I want the facts .... not opinions. I have enough opinions of my own....I don't need more.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. It isn't a score sheet where you add up points and the one with the most wins. Even if it is. if you send the same score sheet to 100 different people you'll get wide range of scores and final answers. It most certainly is based (at least partially) on opinion...
0-60 is not subjective - true
range is not subjective - true
size is not subjective - yes it is, bigger or smaller does not make something better
weight is not subjective - yes it is, some want a heavy car for stability, some want a lighter car for mileage.
leather vs cloth is not subjective - of course it is, ask any animal rights proponent which is better.
price is not subjective. - true

Even a couple of the ones that are true could be argued the other way. As soon as you start including peoples opinions and feelings there is no cut and dried evaluation that will give you "better", there is only better as it relates to whoever is doing the evaluating.

 

[Model 3]

0-60 is not subjective - true
range is not subjective - true
price is not subjective. - true

Hmmm.... Of course the number them self is not subjective. What is subjective is the value this numbers gives you.

 

[N5329K]

Better at what is the key question. The Model S is beautiful, fast, has long range and is much better than the Model 3 for carrying stuff. The Model S is also too expensive and too big. That makes the Model 3 the better car.
For me.
Robin

 

[Garlan Garner]

Hmmm.... Of course the number them self is not subjective. What is subjective is the value this numbers gives you.

True, but the question is not what is better to you. The question is what is the better car.

If we took it slowly I would ask you. Which car would reach 60mph from zero the fastest? Its not subjective. Its factual.

 

[Garlan Garner]

We'll have to agree to disagree then. It isn't a score sheet where you add up points and the one with the most wins. Even if it is. if you send the same score sheet to 100 different people you'll get wide range of scores and final answers. It most certainly is based (at least partially) on opinion...
0-60 is not subjective - true
range is not subjective - true
size is not subjective - yes it is, bigger or smaller does not make something better
weight is not subjective - yes it is, some want a heavy car for stability, some want a lighter car for mileage.
leather vs cloth is not subjective - of course it is, ask any animal rights proponent which is better.
price is not subjective. - true

Even a couple of the ones that are true could be argued the other way. As soon as you start including peoples opinions and feelings there is no cut and dried evaluation that will give you "better", there is only better as it relates to whoever is doing the evaluating.

The question is not what you feel about the features.

Which car is heavier?
Which car is bigger?
Which car has leather and which does not?

Neither of these questions have anything to do with peoples opinions.

First of all state the facts and then make a comment. Not the other way around.

If EVERYTHING is subjective then the question about what is the best car is absolutely absurd.

 

[Az_Rael]

If EVERYTHING is subjective then the question about what is the best car is absolutely absurd.

I think maybe that is the point? I find this thread a bit absurd for that reason. (And the whole fact that we have no actual specs on a Model 3)

But, I'll play. The Bolt will most likely be more efficient at city driving and will better at running errands around town that involve picking up bulky items (or hauling large dogs, etc, etc). It might also be easier to get into due to the high roofline. The 3 will likely be more efficient at highway speeds and a better road trip car due to the supercharger network. It will be more sporty and have better performance. So, there you go. They are both the better EV.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I think maybe that is the point? I find this thread a bit absurd for that reason. (And the whole fact that we have no actual specs on a Model 3)

But, I'll play. The Bolt will most likely be more efficient at city driving and will better at running errands around town that involve picking up bulky items (or hauling large dogs, etc, etc). It might also be easier to get into due to the high roofline. The 3 will likely be more efficient at highway speeds and a better road trip car due to the supercharger network. It will be more sporty and have better performance. So, there you go. They are both the better EV.

I've never heard a better conclusion: They are both the better EV. That is just a great quote. I love it.

 

[dsvick]

If EVERYTHING is subjective then the question about what is the best car is absolutely absurd.

Now we agree.

The question is not what you feel about the features.

Which car is heavier?
Which car is bigger?
Which car has leather and which does not?

Neither of these questions have anything to do with peoples opinions.

Model 3 stated exactly what I was trying to say, the numbers may be factual but nothing in those facts makes anything inherently better than anything else. You say that nothing in the answers to the questions has to do with people's opinions and you're right. It is in how those facts are interpreted by each person that they decide which is better.
What about the weight of the car makes it better or worse?
Why does having or not having leather seats make one car better?
Is big car better? Why?

You can't say something is better without saying why it is better and you can't say why without being subjective.

 

[Model 3]

If we took it slowly I would ask you. Which car would reach 60mph from zero the fastest? Its not subjective. Its factual.

Yes, that is true. But the question was not "which car is the quickest?". Let me transform your question in a way that make sense in this thread: "Is the car that reach 60mph from zero first the best car?".

If EVERYTHING is subjective then the question about what is the best car is absolutely absurd.

Of course, unless to add "to me" - or "to you" - or "to him" - or "to her" - or something

... and to me is not the quickest car necessarily the best car... But the car with the most range may be - if the price is right

 

[Garlan Garner]

Now we agree.
You can't say something is better without saying why it is better and you can't say why without being subjective.

I haven't changed my stance - so I'm not sure why we now agree. <---- However that's not important

I think the M3 is better in every category even with the extremely limited amount of information that Tesla has put out. The why of it isn't necessary.

M3's AP is better . I don't think I need to say why
Pet interior climate feature is better. I don't think I need to say why
SC'ing feature is better. I don't think I need to say why
Autonomy features are better. I don't think I need to say why.
Summons feature is better. I don't think I need to say why.

You don't always need to say why.