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This is not a rant , this is a friendly note to future Norwegian Tesla owners.

Chill mode does not exist in pre-AP Teslas, though. Depending on what OP really has, that could be a consideration.

The lack of speed-limit info would IMO suggest a non-AP car at least and a P85+ more likely would be pre-AP than AP1. A December 2014 registration could be an older pre-AP car that got delayed (showroom car?) just as well as a late AP1 unicorn... It could even be a late arriving last-ditch pre-AP car in itself, European deliveries always take a couple of quarters...

And, again, pre-AP has no Chill mode. This is well documented.

Actually, it is possible you guys inadvertantly brought up/supported one of OPs points... ;) WHY do pre-AP cars not have Chill mode? There is no good reason that we know of. The only one that one could think of is Tesla didn't want to re-design the pre-AP dial for the Chill text, because, well, old cars...

Until December 2017 when the Tesla went in the workshop for the repair, i did not have a chill mode update. I do have a P85+ December 2014 registered Model S though.

If a 3 year old car is by Teslas standards an old vehicle that is deemed obsolete for updates then that is the last nail on the coffin for me to sell the car.

I mean its fine to put up with all the customer service bullshit, its fine to tolerate a 90K car that doesn't have place for my sunglasses, hell its even ok to see the rubber seals on the sunroof falling apart after only three years. But its hell not fine to say that a 3 year old car is obsolete and would be kicked out from future updates.

You know what is funny, even with all this 'innovation' he is still reporting tremendous losses in the fourth quarter. If he actually treated all the customers with the respect they bought with their hard earned money maybe they would have been more loyal to his vision.

I never bought into the Apple craze, i sure as hell will never buy into Teslas if i suspect that they copied their marketing and sales model from Apple.
 
I did quite an extensive research before i hopped on the Tesla train and i have had quite a lot of issues with the car that aren't mentioned anywhere in this thread.
I know exactly what i way buying into and i had no expectations for more quality or standard from a new company like Tesla.
And yet you keep comparing service in a company who's first mass produced car was released less then 5 years ago (and that didn't exist 10 years ago), to a company that released their first mass produced car in 1936 (and have been around for over 100 years now). There is no real comparable motor-vehicle company on the market right now, since even the newer companies like Kia and Hyundai have been around since 1950th. It's always good to keep company to a higher standard, but not when your expectation defy reality and common sense.
 

AnxietyRanger

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Aug 22, 2014
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Until December 2017 when the Tesla went in the workshop for the repair, i did not have a chill mode update. I do have a P85+ December 2014 registered Model S though.

If your car does not have Autopilot hardware, it does not have Chill mode in any of the known updates. If so, the advice/pushback you were given on Chill mode in this thread was wrong.

It is not impossible this might change in the future of course, but so far you are right that the age of the vehicle - no known hardware limitation - seems to be the reason for lack of Chill mode in non-Autopilot Model S.
 
And yet you keep comparing service in a company who's first mass produced car was released less then 5 years ago (and that didn't exist 10 years ago), to a company that released their first mass produced car in 1936 (and have been around for over 100 years now). There is no real comparable motor-vehicle company on the market right now, since even the newer companies like Kia and Hyundai have been around since 1950th. It's always good to keep company to a higher standard, but not when your expectation defy reality and common sense.

And why should i be nice to Elons new company and innovation attempts when his customer service and marketing policy treats me like garbage? Can you please elaborate? Have you read any of my posts? I say : i do not care how bad the car is, as long as Tesla treats me with the same respect i show to them when i trust them with a huge amount of money to a new company that doesn't have a clue about quality vehicles. Yes they do not have a clue. You just said it yourself. They are only a baby company compared to BMW. And i do not expect them to know any better being a baby company but they can't treat the world like they should give them their money because they deserve it. So please let me see your point : they want my money and they want to treat me like s#it while they say sorry for the bad car dude but we are a new company. You should have read the fine print. Seriously? And you support that? Do you enjoy throwing your money for crap service? If you do, then enjoy yourself but don't tell me i have to enjoy it too.

And on another note, your innovating god decided to invest billions to create a huge network of superchargers for cars that will be stuck in the bottleneck of the almost non existing service centers? Who thinks like that? Or does he think all Norwegians drive 100km so they can charge for free? Norwegians change 2 sets of tires every 2nd year just to be on the safe side. Norwegians get drunk on 45USD per 6pack beer cans every weekend. Do you think we care for 30 free supercharges per year? .... no we don't. And after all the sales in Norway, and after all the complaints from hundreds of people here and almost everyone i know that owns a Tesla there is still only 3 workshops in an area that covers 1M people and 70% of the Tesla sales since 2010... so please do not tell me that the service is bad because they are new. They are bad because of bad decisions. And they are also bad because they do not want to accept that it was a bad decision and move on by correcting it. That is a bad policy all together.
 
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bmah

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If your car does not have Autopilot hardware, it does not have Chill mode in any of the known updates. If so, the advice/pushback you were given on Chill mode in this thread was wrong.

It is not impossible this might change in the future of course, but so far you are right that the age of the vehicle - no known hardware limitation - seems to be the reason for lack of Chill mode in non-Autopilot Model S.

The OP said he has a December 2014 P85+. That'd be about the right vintage for one of those few P85+ cars (a few hundred?) that was built with AutoPilot 1 hardware. I'm not sure what the implication that has for the availability of chill mode however.

Bruce.
 
And why should i be nice to Elons new company and innovation attempts when his customer service and marketing policy treats me like garbage? Can you please elaborate? Have you read any of my posts? I say : i do not care how bad the car is, as long as Tesla treats me with the same respect i show to them when i trust them with a huge amount of money to a new company that doesn't have a clue about quality vehicles. Yes they do not have a clue. You just said it yourself. They are only a baby company compared to BMW. And i do not expect them to know any better being a baby company but they can't treat the world like they should give them their money because they deserve it. So please let me see your point : they want my money and they want to treat me like s#it while they say sorry for the bad car dude but we are a new company. You should have read the fine print. Seriously? And you support that? Do you enjoy throwing your money for crap service? If you do, then enjoy yourself but don't tell me i have to enjoy it too.

And on another note, your innovating god decided to invest billions to create a huge network of superchargers for cars that will be stuck in the bottleneck of the almost non existing service centers? Who thinks like that? Or does he think all Norwegians drive 100km so they can charge for free? Norwegians change 2 sets of tires every 2nd year just to be on the safe side. Norwegians get drunk on 45USD per 6pack beer cans every weekend. Do you think we care for 30 free supercharges per year? .... no we don't. And after all the sales in Norway, and after all the complaints from hundreds of people here and almost everyone i know that owns a Tesla there is still only 3 workshops in an area that covers 1M people and 70% of the Tesla sales since 2010... so please do not tell me that the service is bad because they are new. They are bad because of bad decisions. And they are also bad because they do not want to accept that it was a bad decision and move on by correcting it. That is a bad policy all together.

Maybe you should re-read what I wrote. I didn't say anything about the quality of the car itself (other then fit and finish that's you've been complaining about). I said creating service centers, and training personal (you can't just hire car mechanics off the street, you have to train them on working on the car that has high voltage running through it all the time) takes time. It's unreasonable to expect that 5-years old company would have the same level and speed of service that other companies that's been around for 100 years. And you also have to understand, that chance of running into rude and unprofessional service exists in every company, it's just going to be significantly higher for a rapidly growing company that has to hire massive amount of people in a very short amount of time. And it will only be worse in the near future, once Model 3 becomes mainstream. And after that, if Tesla survives, it will become much better. That's a normal growing pain for a new company, and any reasonable person should expect it, or at least not be surprised by it.
If you don't enjoy the service so much to rant about it on the online forums, you always have a choice, sell your Tesla and get yourself M4 or whatever else you feel will work better.
And while I appreciate your experience, you have to understand that there's a huge number of people who love their cars, and it's very likely that most of them never had rude or unprofessional service that you have experienced. I had to take my car to a service center around 4 time in last year and a half, and while it wasn't the best possible experience, it was very reasonable and never unprofessional. It was infinitely better then Infinity and significantly better then Acura service centers that I've been to. If service would've been my highest priority, I would've gotten Mercedes or something like that.
 
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Chaserr

Hyperactive Hyperdrive
Sep 5, 2017
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WHY do pre-AP cars not have Chill mode? There is no good reason that we know of. The only one that one could think of is Tesla didn't want to re-design the pre-AP dial for the Chill text, because, well, old cars...

This is a problem. Chill was excluded for no reason whatsoever, it's an acceleration profile that does not require any AP hardware and can run on all cars. The exclusion is more apple-like upsell pushing than reality, acceleration profiles have been in every car, as Loaner Mode, and Performance Mode and Valet Mode - Chill Mode is just Valet with no top speed limitation and no lockout on the glove box and frunk. Though on that note, my P85+ had the Performance Mode easter egg removed, so Tesla does seem to be limiting accel profiles in general, despite lower performance being helpful rather than harmful to hardware.
 
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AnxietyRanger

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The OP said he has a December 2014 P85+. That'd be about the right vintage for one of those few P85+ cars (a few hundred?) that was built with AutoPilot 1 hardware. I'm not sure what the implication that has for the availability of chill mode however.

I believe it has Chill mode, if it has AP1. And yes, December 2014 certainly makes it a possibility that it is one of the 300 P85+ AP1s, some AP1 cars did make it to Europe by the end of that year.

But OP also says the car does not display speed limits. That would suggest a pre-AP car, which does not have Chill mode.

European deliveries take a couple of quarters. I took delivery of a new pre-AP P85 in October, 2014, the same quarter as this P85+ was registered. If the P85+ had come on one of the same boats or earlier, but its registration was delayed for whatever reason (an obsolete pre-AP showroom car being liquidated at the end of a quarter for example?), a December, 2014 registered P85+ could well be pre-AP.
 

AnxietyRanger

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Aug 22, 2014
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This is a problem. Chill was excluded for no reason whatsoever, it's an acceleration profile that does not require any AP hardware and can run on all cars. The exclusion is more apple-like upsell pushing than reality, acceleration profiles have been in every car, as Loaner Mode, and Performance Mode and Valet Mode - Chill Mode is just Valet with no top speed limitation and no lockout on the glove box and frunk. Though on that note, my P85+ had the Performance Mode easter egg removed, so Tesla does seem to be limiting accel profiles in general, despite lower performance being helpful rather than harmful to hardware.

One really had to own a pre-AP car through the 7.0/8.0 updates to realize what a second-class citizen one became then... ;) Tesla never did fix that instrument cluster for pre-AP, did they? It really is an odd and neglected remnant from a more civilized era that got butchered through 7.0...

I think the reason could be as pragmatic as this - there is no place for the "Chill" text, unless they designed some graphics like Cruise (or moved Cruise) and, well, history has shown they haven't bothered with touching that design since they mangled it in 7.0. It still to this day doesn't fit the design ethos of 7.0/8.0...

IMG_5835.jpg


chill.jpg


AP car image borrowed from here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=I09hLtlkI-M
 
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Chill mode or not is just a minor thing in the big scheme of things OP is concerned about. Chill mode doesn't do anything of value anyhow. You can mimic the same results by being gentle with the throttle. Just like with any car out there. I've tested chill mode ones when it was pushed out to my car, but will never engage it again.

Chill mode can't be compared to ICE-cars Sport, Off Road, Ice, Sport Plus, Normal etc. Those settings will impact on much more than just throttle response (steering, gearbox behavior, torque vectoring, damper stiffness, traction control, etc). All this complicated stuff is mainly not necessary when having a much more simple drivetrain like in an EV with one gear forward. Saying all that I would love to have adaptive dampers in my Tesla S to change from sport to comfort and not just adjusting the ride hight. I'd also like torque vectoring on the rear axle.
 
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If a 3 year old car is by Teslas standards an old vehicle that is deemed obsolete for updates then that is the last nail on the coffin for me to sell the car.

I mean its fine to put up with all the customer service bullshit, its fine to tolerate a 90K car that doesn't have place for my sunglasses, hell its even ok to see the rubber seals on the sunroof falling apart after only three years. But its hell not fine to say that a 3 year old car is obsolete and would be kicked out from future updates.

.
Just as a small counter-point - my first Model S was a 2014 CPO car with no issues - certainly no rubber seals falling apart as described by the OP. And yes, had to adjust to find a sunglass slot with an aftermarket accessory. But in a previous German sedan the sunglasses slot, was too narrow to fit curved sunglasses anyway!

Aso, please consider that with any other make - even a brand new car has no possibility of system updates.
 

Lodo1000

2017 75D AP2 Prem CW
Nov 19, 2017
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"But its hell not fine to say that a 3 year old car is obsolete and would be kicked out from future updates."

"Aso, please consider that with any other make - even a brand new car has no possibility of system updates."

Yes, I wish the other cars in my driveway would evolve and update to the latest features and performance but they just sit there... It makes me so angry.
 
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AnxietyRanger

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Aug 22, 2014
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I don't personally share OPs grief about Tesla not updating older cars. As said, very few car manufacturers offer any updates. Some do in limited fashion (Audi MMI feature upgrades, Volvo Pilot Assist updates), but mostly they don't. So Tesla is already better in this respect.

However, I think getting the facts right like Chill mode - that became a contentious issue on this thread - is important. If OP really does not have Chill mode, we can't blame him for saying his car doesn't have it. That's why it matters, because people sort of blamed OP for not reading/acknowledging this feature. It is actually quite possible OP does not have Chill mode at all by Tesla's design.

(Though I would prefer Tesla to not do stunts like making 6.2 into a much worse 7.0 on pre-AP cars, without any of the benefits. I wished they'd just left the 6.2 instrument cluster alone, rather, in that case - they clearly didn't want to invest in the update on pre-AP...)
 
Maybe you should re-read what I wrote. I didn't say anything about the quality of the car itself (other then fit and finish that's you've been complaining about). I said creating service centers, and training personal (you can't just hire car mechanics off the street, you have to train them on working on the car that has high voltage running through it all the time) takes time. It's unreasonable to expect that 5-years old company would have the same level and speed of service that other companies that's been around for 100 years. And you also have to understand, that chance of running into rude and unprofessional service exists in every company, it's just going to be significantly higher for a rapidly growing company that has to hire massive amount of people in a very short amount of time. And it will only be worse in the near future, once Model 3 becomes mainstream. And after that, if Tesla survives, it will become much better. That's a normal growing pain for a new company, and any reasonable person should expect it, or at least not be surprised by it.
If you don't enjoy the service so much to rant about it on the online forums, you always have a choice, sell your Tesla and get yourself M4 or whatever else you feel will work better.
And while I appreciate your experience, you have to understand that there's a huge number of people who love their cars, and it's very likely that most of them never had rude or unprofessional service that you have experienced. I had to take my car to a service center around 4 time in last year and a half, and while it wasn't the best possible experience, it was very reasonable and never unprofessional. It was infinitely better then Infinity and significantly better then Acura service centers that I've been to. If service would've been my highest priority, I would've gotten Mercedes or something like that.

Like i said to sum up and finish cause i feel this is getting in the wrong direction:
I love the car. I love the innovation. I love the vision. I love the man. But I hate the customer service experience. Never had worse than this honestly. And i also hate the fact that even though Norway is nr2 in sales in the world for Tesla they do not get the proper support so all the people that pay so much money for those cars cannot have to experience so bad customer service.
I will even throw in that i understand that that bad experience derives from overloaded capacity of the few service centers.
But you know what? I do not care. I do not pay over 90k USD to own a car so a visionary mogul can have fun chasing his dreams. I pay the 90k so i can enjoy my dreams. And until now they have just been nightmares with this god awful service.
Do you understand what it is to drive with a loose half shaft? I mean do you understand what technically it means? The legal and safety implications? Do you understand what it is to beg service to take 30 minutes to fix that critical issue and them to look at me like i am a leper begging for money? Ridiculous at the very least. I do not think i have been the least unreasonable here. I have had over 20 different serious issues with the car in the first 6 months and i only pushed to fix that one serious issue with really bad customer treatment. At the very least they could have offered me a loaner and fix it when they had the time. I even suggested that but they said no sir it is not possible. Now do you want me to tell you that i commute my 2 children to school with that car? What would have happened if in the meantime the shaft fell off or sheared from the torque?
Last time that happened i was in a Toyota. And rest assure i sold that car 2 weeks later and never looked back.
I am only sharing an experience here so people do not only have to see the glazing chocolate covered side of the story but also the crappy one. Because trust me, there is also a crappy side to the Tesla story.
And i am sorry but when your last comment is : go bye something else if you don't like it. You are really making my point valid.
If i wanted something else i would have bought it already.
I want to make a sound complaint so in case anyone reads these threads that can make a difference to actually make a difference.
I would really like to stick it with Tesla and i want to give them another chance and this is my only way of complaining to make a change.
If you think i should shut up and take it as a man or go buy something else then my posts are not targeted to you. Please move to the next thread. I already tried to explain this on the start of this thread....
Sorry for the rant again.
 

AnxietyRanger

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Aug 22, 2014
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I still can't help it but think, reading @thewallaby debating with several American aliases, that there's a bit of an European vs. American things going on here too. Not just how we feel about companies. We just express and feel a bit differently about issues such as this. It is bound to be cultural, IMO.

I've known the great folks across the pond on TMC for years now and still I see more eye to eye with a newcomer like @thewallaby than with some of them whom I call online friends. :) Yet with most European folks, the opinions simply match that much better, that much quicker. There's something in the water.

I think it might be healthy for us to recognize the cultural differences. If @thewallaby seems unreasonable to you, it may be partly cultural. Equally I must admit it is partly cultural that I understand him/her and even sympathize. The OP may be totally unreasonable for all I know, but he/she is familiar to me in spirit, so I don't see him/her as unreasonable as perhaps someone else might.

Please take this as a reconciliatory message. I hope it helps smoothen some of the exchanges a bit. Just assume something is lost in translation and try to read each other positively.
 
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Just as a small counter-point - my first Model S was a 2014 CPO car with no issues - certainly no rubber seals falling apart as described by the OP. And yes, had to adjust to find a sunglass slot with an aftermarket accessory. But in a previous German sedan the sunglasses slot, was too narrow to fit curved sunglasses anyway!

Aso, please consider that with any other make - even a brand new car has no possibility of system updates.

I live in a cold climate country. This year we had over a meter and a half snowfall already. I had cars before that had the same issues with seals sticking and breaking due to bad maintenance (some silicone oil can fix that but i did not know then). With the Tesla the issue is much worse. I am an engineer and i know the NBR and nitrile content in seals and i can say for sure that Tesla (at least on pre 2015 models) was using the cheapest grade of rubber on seals.
In practice : If i run my finger gently over the door seal, the seal slightly dissolves into small clumps (like an eraser would) and my finger gets completely black.
The roof seal was deformed and hardened and never returns to its natural state. Some areas the gap on the roof seal was as large as 7-8mm.
I have also seen people with sunroofs leaking inside the cabin, and other funny design related issues but i have not experience those so i wont complain in that aspect.
Even though my rubber seal on the roof was also seared (cut through and through by the locking bracket).
Also all the doors will get frozen to the seals because of the bad quality that lets humidity saturate them and stick to the glass. The result is that the door will open but the window will not retract in time and then it is impossible to close the door again...
I said that issue to the workshop and they told me to always have the car parked inside in the winter if i want to avoid that..... o_O
After applying the silicone oil the issue was resolved but the seals are already damaged and Tesla wont replace them cause they are still 'within specs'.
Funny thing is when i was at the shop for the half shaft there was someone else there that had the exact same issue with the windows. But i could not stress much at the point. Was too freaked out with the half shaft to start more fuss....
As i said... too many stories in so little time.... maybe i got a sour lemon lime car.... i do not even know...
 

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