Those with EnhancedAP to receive 3k discount on FSD

[Ejl80]

there's a ton of things you can do to add tax liability- converting to a roth IRA is probably the best known but plenty of others- so yes it's exactly about the way you file.

Not everyone has an ira they can convert. I’m well aware of how taxes work and it is not a matter of shifting money around for all people. And I know some people say you can’t afford a 60k car then... we’ll we have no idea the source of their income. It could be from a Roth IRA or municipal bonds and be tax free to begin with. My point is we can’t just assume other people have no idea what they are doing. Saying it is how they file confuses people. Read other threads. Some people think if you withhold more it increases their liability somehow.

 

[Nocturnal]

Huh?

If you want to go that way - I traded my Model S for my 3 and paid less than 4 figures for my Model 3. Listed price is the issue.
I don't have any problem with people complaining about the yoyo pricing on Model 3s. We are not talking about trivial amounts.

People always say crap like "I paid 72k for my performance car in January!" or "I paid 55k for my LR in 2018". They have no idea what they actually paid for their cars, or they are lying. It hasn't been yo yo pricing, it's been steady decreases. And yes, 5k net change after a year is pretty trivial.

Not everyone has an ira they can convert. I’m well aware of how taxes work and it is not a matter of shifting money around for all people. And I know some people say you can’t afford a 60k car then... we’ll we have no idea the source of their income. It could be from a Roth IRA or municipal bonds and be tax free to begin with. My point is we can’t just assume other people have no idea what they are doing. Saying it is how they file confuses people. Read other threads. Some people think if you withhold more it increases their liability somehow.

I generally don't like to play this card but I'm baffled that people who can afford a 60k car aren't savvy enough to consult a tax professional to save thousands of dollars.

Nearly everyone has a 401k and you can easily roll that into an IRA in almost all cases. ​

 

[Knightshade]

Huh?

If you want to go that way - I traded my Model S for my 3 and paid less than 4 figures for my Model 3.

No, you didn't, because the Model S had value. You paid that value plus the "less than 4 figures" not just the less than 4 figures.

Listed price is the issue..

it shouldn't be, because that's dumb. Net price is what people should be comparing, and mostly when they've actually been shown that math the difference is a ton less than they imagined it to be.


Again citing my own math as an example-

My AWD is $8000 less, list price, today than when I bought it last year.

But I got $5625 more of a tax credit.

And $350 more hardware

And $200 less destination charge

So apples to apples the car is only $1825 cheaper now.

And over the 10.5 months I've had it I've saved more than $1825 in not buying gasoline.

(and I got free lifetime premium connectivity too- something no longer even offered on new cars for any price)


So despite it looking like I WAY OVERPAID if you go only by "list price"- I'm actually better off having bought when I did than buying now. And even if I didn't count the fuel savings I'm nowhere near the 8k-it-initially-appears worse off.

 

[Nocturnal]

Not everyone has an ira they can convert. I’m well aware of how taxes work and it is not a matter of shifting money around for all people. And I know some people say you can’t afford a 60k car then... we’ll we have no idea the source of their income. It could be from a Roth IRA or municipal bonds and be tax free to begin with. My point is we can’t just assume other people have no idea what they are doing. Saying it is how they file confuses people. Read other threads. Some people think if you withhold more it increases their liability somehow.

I generally don't like to play this card but I'm baffled that people who can afford a 60k car aren't savvy enough to consult a tax professional to save thousands of dollars.

No, you didn't, because the Model S had value. You paid that value plus the "less than 4 figures" not just the less than 4 figures.






it shouldn't be, because that's dumb. Net price is what people should be comparing, and mostly when they've actually been shown that math the difference is a ton less than they imagined it to be.

My net price delta for my P3D+ august delivery to now is under 6k. Good point on gas, I can easily tack on another 2k in savings onto that if I had "waited" to save money. That's pretty damn good IMO for buying the first of a model year compared to a year later with the same model.

 

[MountainJedi]

Not everyone has an ira they can convert. I’m well aware of how taxes work and it is not a matter of shifting money around for all people. And I know some people say you can’t afford a 60k car then... we’ll we have no idea the source of their income. It could be from a Roth IRA or municipal bonds and be tax free to begin with. My point is we can’t just assume other people have no idea what they are doing. Saying it is how they file confuses people. Read other threads. Some people think if you withhold more it increases their liability somehow.

You're right that we don't know an individual's tax situation, but it doesn't really matter for this discussion. Tesla priced the vehicles with the federal tax rebate in effect. Everyone should have known that it was decreasing 50% after January 1 and should have been able to reason that prices would drop as incentives dropped.

People's failure to account for their tax situation or their inability to claim the full rebate isn't Tesla's fault. Even people without an IRA or with tax free income could have made decisions and actions to increase their liability to claim the full credit if they would have planned in advance. That's on them.

 

[scubastevo80]

I think we're getting off-topic here. Perhaps we should stay focused on the $3k FSD update for EAP owners and leave the general recent price decrease discussion to the numerous other threads dedicated to owner opinions.

 

[joosh]

I have EAP on mine and have decided to keep it that way. Will consider FSD on my next Tesla whenever that may be, surely by then (hopefully not premature due to total accident) the tech will actually be available and well baked

 

[ranova]

FSD is NOT worth 6k+ (or even 2k+ when you have EAP). Here are my reasons:

• Navigate on Autopilot is still very beta and highly situational. I use it but I keep lane confirmations on because it often makes stupid lane changes (going into the HOV lane over a double solid line, moving over lanes miles away from the exit, etc)
  
  
• Smart summon seems like a party trick and MAYBE useful for those rare times when its raining out AND there iss no other car/pedestrian traffic
  
  
• Auto-park is a big meh - its often so slow, its not worth the hassle
  
  
• You dont know when traffic light/sign and city street FSD features will actually come out and when or if it will actually be good/useful
  
  
• Anything could happen from now until FSD is worth it (you decide to sell your car (getting a Model Y, or some other car. Tech is moving fast), car gets totaled, etc)
  
  
• FSD is not transferable if you decide to sell your car and get another Tesla - you have to buy FSD again.
  

Regular Autopilot is great and that's standard now. The one thing that you would miss out is AP lane changes, which I do like, but that itself is definitely not worth buying FSD for.

 

[pscarroll]

How do you figure?

Today AP (not EAP) is "included" but they raised the car price about 2k to do that. And it's 6k for FSD.

Same $8000 that EAP+FSD cost in the past.

(in fact technically you could've gotten EAP+FSD for $7000 if timed right but it was a narrow window)

That is correct for current buyers, this thread is talking about EAP owners getting a discount again so they'd pay less than those of use that paid up-front when we bought the car (and were told it was going to be more expensive) yet have never gotten FSD yet, no features or hardware.

 

[Knightshade]

That is correct for current buyers, this thread is talking about EAP owners getting a discount again so they'd pay less than those of use that paid up-front when we bought the car

Uh, no, it's not.

It's talking about them getting a discount from the current $6000 to the what-it-actually-should-be $3000.

Which is the same as those who paid up front paid, not less. (technically it's still 1k more than the folks lucky enough to have grabbed it for $2000 for like the week or so it was that cheap before the backlash killed that off)


Tesla abandoned the "pay more later" model some time ago now regarding before/after purchase.... FSD is $6000 (for everyone else) regardless of if you buy it before or after delivery of the vehicle.

The only "pay more later" thing now is the suggestion the "standard" price will keep going up... (for example it's allegedly going up to $7000 August 16th I think about the same time enhanced summon is threatened to come out)

 

[rickjames]

that's your problem right there.

if you'd filed in a way that got the full rebate you're be $3100 ahead of the situation you describe, which wouldn't be especially unreasonable at all...(and it's unclear if your math also accounts for you getting homelink, 14-50, and phone cables new buyers don't; or the $1200 destination new buyers pay rather than the couple hundred lower you did; or the fact you got lifetime unlimited premium connectivity and new buyers only get 1 year). Plus of course the 16 months of gasoline savings you experienced compared to waiting to buy new... for me that's be over $3000 right there in savings, but YMMV.

First of all everyone's tax situation is different. Being in a situation where you rated less than the full tax credit at 7500 means it is almost certain that no matter how much itemization you did, you would not eek out another 3100. 50% of my pay is not taxed i.e. not even factored in when it comes to AGI thus my line 10 stays pretty low. I think you would be surprised by the amount of people with a Model 3 that did not get a full 7500 in 2018.

Second, no, I did not account for homelink and .... Phone cables? What the **** is that? I vaguely remember the homelink threads on the forum here but if memory serves it was only a couple of hundred bucks. I don't remember anything about phone cables. How much could they actually cost i.e. who cares?

Oh and for the guy who decided to assume I am upset about price changes, far from it. In fact my post in this thread was astonishment and joy that I may be buying myself a sick 3.2s 0-60 post deployment gift at that price difference.

But hey go ahead and jump to conclusions.

 

[Knightshade]

First of all everyone's tax situation is different. Being in a situation where you rated less than the full tax credit at 7500 means it is almost certain that no matter how much itemization you did, you would not eek out another 3100.

Itemization reduces taxable income (otherwise you wouldn't do it at all)... you had the opposite problem.

Possibly an accountant could've had some helpful suggestions for you... as I mentioned IRA->Roth conversion is the easiest/best known way to max use of the tax credit for those without enough initial liability, but it's not the only one. Since you appear to be in the military, choosing to contribute to a roth TSP rather than a traditional one would've been an option for you in 2018 for example which would've raised your tax liability in a way they might've let you capture more (or all) of the tax credit.

I think you would be surprised by the amount of people with a Model 3 that did not get a full 7500 in 2018.

That's probably true, given how many ways there are to increase tax liability (doubly so if you're aware in advance you'd need to) I would indeed be surprised if that's a large # of people.

Second, no, I did not account for homelink and .... Phone cables? What the **** is that? I vaguely remember the homelink threads on the forum here but if memory serves it was only a couple of hundred bucks. I don't remember anything about phone cables. How much could they actually cost i.e. who cares?

Anybody trying to honestly compare costs would care.

Homelink is an additional $300 now. The phone charging cables and 14-50 adapter (none of which are included with the car now, but were last year) are another $50.

The destination charge is $200 higher now too.

Data will (in theory once they figure out how to bill their own customers) be another ~$100 a year for new customers, but was free for anyone who ordered before July 1 2018.

These, and the tax credit differences (and the FUSC refund if it applies to a given person) need to all be included for an honest comparison of then vs now pricing.

 

[Big Dog]

price change in process. MyTesla has the FSD option back down to $3k from $6k.....(i have EAP)

 

[willow_hiller]

price change in process. MyTesla has the FSD option back down to $3k from $6k.....(i have EAP)

Cool! Showing on your account page? Or did you need to contact them?

 

[Ol'Blue]

It’s showing 4,000 Canadian Dollars for any Canadians that are considering the jump.

 

[KKman]

Cool! Showing on your account page? Or did you need to contact them?

Just check my Tesla account. Yes FSD is currently 3K for those who purchased EAP.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

This is awesome; we now only have to pay $8k for FSD rather than the $6k everyone else gets to pay! What a deal.

You heard it here (probably not first):
1) FSD will be a while coming.
2) It will likely get cheaper rather than more expensive, at least for the next 10-15 year timeframe. It’ll be a commodity. And as with most things Tesla it’ll likely get slightly less expensive, not more.
3) If you like expensive toys, seems fine, could be fun to buy it. But think of it as a (currently imaginary) toy, not a tool. Buy and enjoy (sometime in the future...) if you want. No whining allowed!

I’m waiting for $1k. Hoping that CA passes some massive additional EV incentives soon, which is money in Tesla’s pockets which they can use to subsidize their FSD development.

 

[boriszima]

Yep, showing for me as well. Now is to see how long this will last, hopefully until August 16 and open a new credit card where if you spend 3-4k it gives you a discoun such as this found via nerdwallet Apply for a Capital One Card

 

[rickjames]

Itemization reduces taxable income (otherwise you wouldn't do it at all)... you had the opposite problem.

Possibly an accountant could've had some helpful suggestions for you... as I mentioned IRA->Roth conversion is the easiest/best known way to max use of the tax credit for those without enough initial liability, but it's not the only one. Since you appear to be in the military, choosing to contribute to a roth TSP rather than a traditional one would've been an option for you in 2018 for example which would've raised your tax liability in a way they might've let you capture more (or all) of the tax credit.







That's probably true, given how many ways there are to increase tax liability (doubly so if you're aware in advance you'd need to) I would indeed be surprised if that's a large # of people.




Anybody trying to honestly compare costs would care.

Homelink is an additional $300 now. The phone charging cables and 14-50 adapter (none of which are included with the car now, but were last year) are another $50.

The destination charge is $200 higher now too.

Data will (in theory once they figure out how to bill their own customers) be another ~$100 a year for new customers, but was free for anyone who ordered before July 1 2018.

These, and the tax credit differences (and the FUSC refund if it applies to a given person) need to all be included for an honest comparison of then vs now pricing.

Ok so add 350 to what I posted then.

You do realize itemization has to surpass standard deduction to be the best option? Even an accountant was unable to come up with enough to maximize the rebate. You're talking about a solid 26k increase in tax liability to get the full rebate. All of this is irrelevant. I exhausted every opportunity including seeking professional advice, given the portion of tax free income it was not going to happen. But let's continue to try and rehash my tax situation and assume I could have gotten more as if I would have willingly left over 3k to the government.

My point still stands; a Performance is still only a few grand than what I paid for my vehicle in 2018 and that's great for me.

 

[Fernand]

Would have loved the $2k price, and I still grumble a bit
about that "sale", but I want the 3.X Hardware. I get truly
great utility out of everything Tesla's done with this car,
including the automation. Glad to see Musk living up to
the correction he promised on the price for us EAP users.
Brings the entire automation package to an acceptable $8k,
so its a no-brainer at $3k. Just gotta figure out where to pull
the money, I hope this isn't another temporary flash sale.