Thumb Drive recommendation for M3 That Works

[Knightshade]

I personally would not trust any valuable data to a thumb drive. Nor would I trust them for a purpose like this.[/QUPTE]


Why?

We've been over the math. The car writes very little data relative to the rated life of even just "decent" USB keys.

And millions of people use micro sdcards their phones, dashcams, and digital camcorders. They withstand high temp ranges and the rigors of high read/write cycles.

Mostly they're used for those purposes for 2 reasons-


1) In applications writing [B}massively more[/B] data over device lifetime, it's easier to find high endurance in SD... (though you CAN find it in keys too)- this is not relevant to the Tesla where even a decent USB key will be good for 5-10 years at minimum (again math previously given).


2) An even bigger reason for most applications- because they're physically a ton smaller



Can you imagine having to have a USB key sticking out the bottom of your phone all the time?

Flash is flash. You can buy a USB key and an SDcard with the same quality/type of flash memory. You can buy one of each where EITHER is better quality/type of flash if you want.

There's no functional difference inherent in key vs card- just physical form factor.


Likewise you can buy SSDs with crappier flash than some USB keys or SDcards- and vice versa.


I'd way rather trust a TLC-based USB key over a QLC based SSD for example.

 

[roofus38]

Noob here so I apologize if I missed this somewhere.

With the Samsung Fit Plus USB 3.1 do I still have to format it to FAT32?

 

[Knightshade]

Noob here so I apologize if I missed this somewhere.

With the Samsung Fit Plus USB 3.1 do I still have to format it to FAT32?

You have to format any storage you would use for dashcam as FAT32

 

[roofus38]

You have to format any storage you would use for dashcam as FAT32

Thanks!

 

[Knightshade]

Quick update!

It appears the new firmware being pushed now, 2020.16, adds an option to format the storage directly in the car- which should help out all the folks having trouble figuring out how to format larger storage as FAT32 under Win10

 

[john5520]

Mostly they're used for those purposes for 2 reasons-

1) In applications writing [B}massively more[/B] data over device lifetime, it's easier to find high endurance in SD... (though you CAN find it in keys too)- this is not relevant to the Tesla where even a decent USB key will be good for 5-10 years at minimum (again math previously given).

2) An even bigger reason for most applications- because they're physically a ton smaller

Can you imagine having to have a USB key sticking out the bottom of your phone all the time?

Flash is flash. You can buy a USB key and an SDcard with the same quality/type of flash memory. You can buy one of each where EITHER is better quality/type of flash if you want.

There's no functional difference inherent in key vs card- just physical form factor.

Depending on the manufacturer, high endurance Micro SDs (with adapters) are about the same price as a 'decent' USB keys. In some cases, just a few dollars more. It's a no-brainer.
And high endurance keys which are harder to find are usually more expensive.

If the high endurance Micro SDs were a lot more money, I'd put more weight in the overkill argument. It's like someone building an average PC for mostly light duty use, but could pick up an SLC SSD for about the same price as a QLC. They'll both get the job done, but anyone in the know would grab the better spec'd drive. Why? Because, performance aside, it's the more likely of the two to last longer.

I'd way rather trust a TLC-based USB key over a QLC based SSD for example.

SSDs use techniques such as wear leveling to help ensure longevity even when they use cheaper flash. So, the type of flash isn't the whole story in their case.
If they're going to be living in a PC or laptop, they're expected to be rugged enough to handle that environment. Sure, SLC is preferable for overall reliability and performance, but not necessary for general use SSDs today.

 

[sdwr98]

FWIW, I tried using the SanDisk Ultra Fit USB 3.1 that was called out in the owners manual, and it worked fine for about 3-4 weeks then I started getting the "Too Slow" error warning. I just put in a SanDisk High Endurance Video micro SD card - we'll see what happens.

 

[Knightshade]

Depending on the manufacturer, high endurance Micro SDs (with adapters) are about the same price as a 'decent' USB keys. In some cases, just a few dollars more. It's a no-brainer.
And high endurance keys which are harder to find are usually more expensive.

Plus the USB to SDcard adapter.

Which adds a second point of failure (one that many have posted as failing in various threads)


So for a few dollars more you get:

Double the points of failure.
Endurance that adds 0 value since even the regular key is good at least 5-10 years.


Not really seeing how that's worth it at the SAME price- let alone a few dollars more.

But by all means if you don't mind the extra failure point and you expect you'll need 20 year old dashcam footage- spend the couple extra bucks.

SSDs use techniques such as wear leveling to help ensure longevity even when they use cheaper flash. So, the type of flash isn't the whole story in their case.

So do many USB keys.

This has been covered many times previous- including with links to threads listing the various flash controllers with wear leveling used in Samsung and other brands of keys.

 

[UTMB]

Which thumb drives (specifically) work?

I've seen the Sentry Mode thumb drive conversations so often, but need a solid recommendation for an affordable thumb drive that actually works for this.

Last fall, tried both of Tesla’s recommendations for thumb drives and got repeated warnings of slow write speeds. Only an SSD has worked for me.

 

[john5520]

Plus the USB to SDcard adapter.

Which adds a second point of failure (one that many have posted as failing in various threads)

Compatibility issues and failures are two different things.

So for a few dollars more you get:

Double the points of failure.
Endurance that adds 0 value since even the regular key is good at least 5-10 years.

Except in the real world where USB keys have been shown over and over again to be not as reliable.

So do many USB keys.

This has been covered many times previous- including with links to threads listing the various flash controllers with wear leveling used in Samsung and other brands of keys.

USB keys are simply not designed around the the same use case as SSDs. Ask the people that use them on rasberrry PIs how long they generally last. And there are different types of wear leveling. Sure, you can find industrial grade USB keys with static wear leveling like SSDs, but with SSDs coming down so much in price, there's little point. USB keys are mainly for temporary storage.

 

[john5520]

Last fall, tried both of Tesla’s recommendations for thumb drives and got repeated warnings of slow write speeds. Only an SSD has worked for me.

FWIW, I tried using the SanDisk Ultra Fit USB 3.1 that was called out in the owners manual, and it worked fine for about 3-4 weeks then I started getting the "Too Slow" error warning. I just put in a SanDisk High Endurance Video micro SD card - we'll see what happens.

Unfortunately, this is very common, which is why many reviewers are not recommending USB keys as a first option any more. If the SSD works, by all means. I was tempted, but going to the micro sd route for now. Will probably end up getting one at some point.

 

[jrweiss98020]

My 256GB Samsung Bar still works fine: Are you a human?

 

[Knightshade]

Compatibility issues and failures are two different things.

RIght- that's why I used failure. Because there's bunchs of folks who have been using SDcards and had their USB->SD adapter fail

Replacing it with another adapter (even same kind, same card) fixed it.

Because the original failed.

So you're adding an additional point of failure by needing an adapter.

Except in the real world where USB keys have been shown over and over again to be not as reliable.

That's not the real world unless you've got some evidence.

I don't mean "I know a guy" I mean actual objective data regarding this application.

I'd bet the majority of owners use USB keys, and without issue- since that's what the manual tells you to use, and most owners aren't on the forums to even be told they have other options.... I don't have objective data to support it- but it seems a more likely claim than yours.

USB keys are simply not designed around the the same use case as SSDs

True.

SSDs aren't really designed for THIS use case at all.

More power draw, physically much larger, narrower operating temp range, higher cost for no relevant benefit, etc...



You keep acting like the car is writing terabytes of data by the hour.

It's not.

It's writing about two megs a second.

That's very little and very slow

 

[john5520]

RIght- that's why I used failure. Because there's bunchs of folks who have been using SDcards and had their USB->SD adapter fail

Replacing it with another adapter (even same kind, same card) fixed it.

Because the original failed.

So you're adding an additional point of failure by needing an adapter.

More than likely a Tesla update caused some incompatibilities. The same adapters that supposedly 'failed' would have worked fine elsewhere.

That's not the real world unless you've got some evidence.

I don't mean "I know a guy" I mean actual objective data regarding this application.

There is evidence posted in other threads on this topic. It's not hard to find if you really want to.

I'd bet the majority of owners use USB keys, and without issue- since that's what the manual tells you to use, and most owners aren't on the forums to even be told they have other options.... I don't have objective data to support it- but it seems a more likely claim than yours.

USB keys would be the go-to sure, but generally, people would buy another when there's a problem. I'd venture to guess a large section of users are being forced to try different keys till they find one that works reliably. And even when they do, they still can get the 'drive too slow' warning which is often solved by moving to either a high endurance micro sd or SSD.

True.

SSDs aren't really designed for THIS use case at all.

More power draw, physically much larger, narrower operating temp range, higher cost for no relevant benefit, etc...



You keep acting like the car is writing terabytes of data by the hour.

It's not.

It's writing about two megs a second.

That's very little and very slow

Yeah, that's why Tesla implemented a USB performance check which even ' high end' keys are failing. If the data transfer needs are so much lower than what a key can offer, why even introduce a performance check?

 

[Knightshade]

More than likely a Tesla update caused some incompatibilities. The same adapters that supposedly 'failed' would have worked fine elsewhere.

Nope. They didn't work in PCs either. The adapters were dead. They're cheap- it happens.

There is evidence posted in other threads on this topic. It's not hard to find if you really want to.

Your definition of evidence needs some work

USB keys would be the go-to sure, but generally, people would buy another when there's a problem. I'd venture to guess a large section of users are being forced to try different keys till they find one that works reliably

Or they could just buy a good one like the Samsung suggested in the manual and have 18 months of flawless operation like I have so far.

That seems a better way to go.

. And even when they do, they still can get the 'drive too slow' warning which is often solved by moving to either a high endurance micro sd or SSD.

Both of which have ALSO had various issues thanks to SW updates.

SSDs especially have had a LOT of reported problems last couple updates

 

[iwannam3]

FWIW, I tried using the SanDisk Ultra Fit USB 3.1 that was called out in the owners manual, and it worked fine for about 3-4 weeks then I started getting the "Too Slow" error warning. I just put in a SanDisk High Endurance Video micro SD card - we'll see what happens.

My 256 gig thumb from Costco worked fine until I got the viewer download, now it say too slow, need 4mbs speed. The thumb drive is rated at 90. Did you start getting the warnings after the software download?

 

[john5520]

Nope. They didn't work in PCs either. The adapters were dead. They're cheap- it happens.

So a couple dead adapters (assuming that's accurate) is somehow proof they fail often? And you call my evidence scant?

Your definition of evidence needs some work

By no means an exhaustive list:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=24psWq_iQ80
Dashcam: USB Drive is too slow to save | Tesla
USB Too Slow -TeslaCam
USB Flash Drives for Tesla Dashcam | TeslaTap
Best USB Drive for Tesla DashCam and Sentry Mode - Pure Tesla
Tesla Dashcam USB Drive Setup with Sentry Mode and Music - AutoPilot Review
USB Write Speed Too Slow = Drive Full | Tesla
Tesla sentry mode USB flash drive recommendations - Tesladriver.net
Tesla Owners Club New York State - Sentry Mode Storage
The Ultimate Tesla USB Drive Solution | ALEX SHOOLMAN
https://livingtesla.com/reliable-sentry-teslacam-flash-drive/
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotor...as_official_advice_for_what_usb_drive_to_buy/

Or they could just buy a good one like the Samsung suggested in the manual and have 18 months of flawless operation like I have so far.

That seems a better way to go.

So now we need 'good ones'? Not long ago you were making it sound like any old USB key would work flawlessly.

As evidenced in this thread and elsewhere (see links above), the Tesla suggested 'good ones' are not guaranteed to work reliably.You've had good luck, others haven't.

Both of which have ALSO had various issues thanks to SW updates. SSDs especially have had a LOT of reported problems last couple updates

Not nearly as much as USB keys from I'm reading. Search the web, forums etc (even this one) and you'll find that
in the midst of all the noise, the majority of 'drive too slow' issues were solved by moving to either SSDs or HE MicroSD cards, not the other way around.
.
Now, there could be a software problem as well, but the fact that it seems to affect USB Keys the most says something.

Nothing more to add to this conversation.

 

[GoSharks]

USB keys are not built with write endurance in mind. That’s all there is to it. Sectors go bad and the key’s speed degrades.

 

[jkdman123]

You've had good luck, others haven't.

You’ve had good luck with an SSD, others haven’t.

More people are using USB keys, so you’re gonna see more reports of problems than you will with SSDs.

And using other threads on other forums is just more anecdotal evidence. It’s not real proof of anything.

 

[john5520]

You’ve had good luck with an SSD, others haven’t.

Based on what? Where is this evidence? Hopefully not forum posts. They're not real proof of anything. Right?

More people are using USB keys, so you’re gonna see more reports of problems than you will with SSDs.

And many of those people with USB keys are seeking other forms of flash storage for a more permanent fix.

And using other threads on other forums is just more anecdotal evidence. It’s not real proof of anything.

Not if you look for patterns. And those links are not all forum threads either. And the facts presented around the type of flash
storage and their performance characteristics are not anecdotal.