Not unlike "We now offer autopilot through OTA... except for people who bought their car before a certain point in time, you're out of luck."
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To 72 A or not to 72 A?
- Thread starter investmentgamer
- Start date
Not unlike "We now offer autopilot through OTA... except for people who bought their car before a certain point in time, you're out of luck."
MichealW
Member
Eds, is that you?
Let me add one additional point for consideration. The Model-X is still undergoing a lot of changes, both with components and with options. It's entirely possible that Tesla hasn't made a final decision on what they're going to do, and they may be leaning towards one direction this week and may change course next week. Therefore, they could be covering their assets by posting on the website that the charger is *not* upgradeable, just in case they go with 2 different chargers in the future. Today, all cars may be 72A capable, but Tesla maybe hopes to find a cheaper 48A option that they will implement in the future.
It may be safest to go with Tesla's current "intentions" rather than go with the facts. e̶ds̶/MichealW may be accurate (today) with the single charger information, yet Tesla's statement (not upgradeable) may also be accurate long-term.
MichealW
Member
My take on it is that if you are configuring a Model X right now and you think you might want the 72A charger at some point in the future, you need to make sure it's in your actual build. Don't depend on the possibility that they might make it a post-build upgrade unless you can get it in writing that they will make that possibility available to you.
One of Tesla's weaknesses has always been their communication. It is entirely possible that there are certain employees who honestly believe that the charger will be software upgradeable, but who are mistaken in that belief.
One of Tesla's weaknesses has always been their communication. It is entirely possible that there are certain employees who honestly believe that the charger will be software upgradeable, but who are mistaken in that belief.
MichealW
Member
Interesting update that will piss everyone off I'm sure but here it goes...
So I decided to call Tesla and tell them I wanted to upgrade to a 72A after I get my car... It took them a week to get back to me and this is what they said...
The 72A charger firmware upgrade can be done after I take delivery... I ask them how much it is going to cost and they said they will know soon and get back to me on that. They also explained to me there is one junction box on the left hand back of the car that weighs about 60 pounds. About 2.5 foot by 1.5 foot. It has all the hardware it needs to upgrade in it already (Packed full not even any room for more hardware). The charger the car comes with works for 48A and 72A. They said it takes less than 2 hours in the service center to download the firmware and it is done.
So again I know this will upset some of you but in the end I feel like this is a win win for everyone. If you got it great! If you didn't you can get it later when you decide you want it.
I will let you know when they quote me a price.
I also asked him if there was any chance that he could be wrong. That in fact I wouldn't be able to get it after I get my car. His answer was NO. NO Chance.
Have no idea why they put not upgradable after delivery on the build site. I forgot to ask him but my guess is he wouldn't have answered it anyway...
Don't kill the messenger...
dwebb66
Member
That is great news. It will be interest to see the price, I would predict $1,295.
Mark Z
Active Member
I agree. Thanks for fighting for the truth. It is a commodity in short supply these days.
UPDATE: Keep reading the posts. Better to withhold praise until the facts are known.
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Canuck
Well-Known Member
I certainly hope it's true but it seems premature to me to call something "the truth" that hasn't been actually done yet.
I'm suspect of the part that reads: "it takes less than 2 hours in the service center to download the firmware and it is done". First off, why would it need to download any firmware? The firmware would be on a computer at the service center and installed on the vehicle. That's how they update the vehicle's firmware. Downloads only happen off site, such as when your car takes one at home. Perhaps he meant to say it takes less than 2 hours to install the firmware. That's a long time considering the vehicle's firmware can be installed in about 15 to 20 minutes. Maybe they need a two hour appointment and by the time they get the car in, hooked up, erase and update for 30 minutes or so, it takes less than a 2 hour appt. That makes more sense to me.
Again, I certainly hope it's true. I've just heard too many things from Tesla that end up not being true to not call something "the truth" until it actually happens as opposed to be reported as hearsay on this forum.
Mark Z
Active Member
IMHO, maybe there is separate firmware for ONLY the AC to DC charger hardware that reportedly weighs 60 pounds. IMHO, it may require a computer connection directly to the charger hardware.
We may never know the truth about all the details, but I gave credit that someone was willing to fight for truth, even though the facts may change over time.
UPDATE: Why worry about the facts changing. Order the 72 amp charger now, and there will be no worry about future change.
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MichealW
Member
Correct. They need the car two hours. Probably takes a few mins actually download.
MichealW
Member
Also, found out that the key fobs are blue tooth on the X vs radio controlled on the S. I guess they had problems with people tinting the back window and losing contact with the back windshield grid.
Another fun fact that only a few people know I think is that Elon really has no desk at the factory. When he goes there they set up a table and stack big plants around it. Thats how the crew knows he is there on any given day. Pretty funny I thought...
They do all the cars in groups of colors. Interior colors and exterior paint. So they don't always do the cars in the order of Vin Numbers. But it is often fairly close.
The final stage after the car is completely finished is firmware. When the car exits the factory they are setting it up so that you will get an email that your car is done. Not sure when that takes into effect. Tesla knows where you car is on the assembly line at all times. Its has a chip in it. The cars that are going around the country on test drives have Vins of around 444-450ish. If your car is before that... mine is. Your car is likely done and waiting some kind part that needs changed out. They don't want these cars coming out and having any problems.
Lastly, the people that build the X are newer builders. Taught to build a new car. They are learning and this takes time as Elon wants these cars to be perfect. All the top builders are building the S and they have gotten good but some of those builders were forced to go over to build and help with the X. This is why its taking a long time. Top builders and newbie builders working together to make the X means they working slow at this point...
The good news is I've spent a ton of time in the X and it is unreal! No problems in my opinion. They have found fixes for most of the problems that they discovered early on... I am looking forward to getting my car!!
Another fun fact that only a few people know I think is that Elon really has no desk at the factory. When he goes there they set up a table and stack big plants around it. Thats how the crew knows he is there on any given day. Pretty funny I thought...
They do all the cars in groups of colors. Interior colors and exterior paint. So they don't always do the cars in the order of Vin Numbers. But it is often fairly close.
The final stage after the car is completely finished is firmware. When the car exits the factory they are setting it up so that you will get an email that your car is done. Not sure when that takes into effect. Tesla knows where you car is on the assembly line at all times. Its has a chip in it. The cars that are going around the country on test drives have Vins of around 444-450ish. If your car is before that... mine is. Your car is likely done and waiting some kind part that needs changed out. They don't want these cars coming out and having any problems.
Lastly, the people that build the X are newer builders. Taught to build a new car. They are learning and this takes time as Elon wants these cars to be perfect. All the top builders are building the S and they have gotten good but some of those builders were forced to go over to build and help with the X. This is why its taking a long time. Top builders and newbie builders working together to make the X means they working slow at this point...
The good news is I've spent a ton of time in the X and it is unreal! No problems in my opinion. They have found fixes for most of the problems that they discovered early on... I am looking forward to getting my car!!
Mark Z
Active Member
Sorry MichealW, but you just lost credibility with that statement.
I have been on the factory tour, and the cars on the line are in every color and combination of features imaginable right next to each other.
I seek truth, so I must call it as I see it.
(For those ordering your Model X, if you want a 72 amp charger, avoid delay and include it during your Design Studio visit.)
MichealW
Member
Have you been on the X tour? Ask someone who has then we will talk...
I feel like the first guy who said the world was round... lol
Sorry that you're feeling that way... I can understand.
The truth will come out sooner or later. I've now heard rumors both ways, all from different folks - and like you, not just DS's or inside sales or techs.
It's just a weird set of circumstances. Why install a fully-capable charger and then hobble it in software?
Let's say it's for revenue purposes -- kinda like "Paint Shop" vs. "Paint Shop Pro", pay the upgrade fee and *boom* you're in business... then why make it a hidden option that guarantees you won't get revenue unless someone knows the password?
Perhaps it is tied to quality issues, but if you know you have quality problems, then why experiment on your Signature customers again? (Rhetorical question.)
I'm suspending disbelief at this point and am back on the fence. I don't think it's a smart move at all, especially given all the flip-flops prior to configuration.
Furthermore, why was there all the marketing-speak trying to convince buyers that 48A charger was all they needed?
That's still out there. There's a general belief that overnight at home / vacation home + supercharger network is all you need. The coverage isn't quite there completely, but by next year they're hoping to squash that argument. (Save for Canada... sorry folks.)
Just another note about 72A chargers and the benefits to higher amperage destination charging:
Spent the weekend in Yosemite, and the Ahwahnee has one 80A HPWC and one 40A charger. Thankfully there were only two of us there this weekend, but because I was able to charge at 80A, I was pretty much "done" in about 4 hours. I imagine in the summer there is serious resource contention for those chargers. In that case, it's a shame that there's an lower amperage option that makes people wait longer for the opportunity to charge.
If you choose not to upgrade to the higher amperage charger, I hope you keep in mind that others may be waiting longer or missing out on a charge because of that selection. Not saying you need to upgrade, but maybe give others the opportunity to timeslice their vehicles into destination chargers.
Spent the weekend in Yosemite, and the Ahwahnee has one 80A HPWC and one 40A charger. Thankfully there were only two of us there this weekend, but because I was able to charge at 80A, I was pretty much "done" in about 4 hours. I imagine in the summer there is serious resource contention for those chargers. In that case, it's a shame that there's an lower amperage option that makes people wait longer for the opportunity to charge.
If you choose not to upgrade to the higher amperage charger, I hope you keep in mind that others may be waiting longer or missing out on a charge because of that selection. Not saying you need to upgrade, but maybe give others the opportunity to timeslice their vehicles into destination chargers.
goneskiian
Active Member
This right here is the strongest argument for high amp AC charger options. At least until there are enough destination chargers to accomodate everyone that needs one. When will that happen though?
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