Towing a Jayco, Keystone, or Similar

[Lee K.]

2019 Model X Performance with 20" wheels. My wife and I are considering trying a travel trailer. I've read all the forums here. We've looked at Airstreams in person (Bambi 22' is our favorite). We've checked out the Bowlus, Altos, Safari Condos, etc online. The Airstream seems to be the best option for space, but the weight concerns me. We traded in our Escalade and were considering a 5th wheel or motorhome. We're now retired and would like to travel the US more. How we ended up with the Tesla X I don't know, but we love it! We're fine with the shorter range when towing. Having a hard time with the small trailer options though.

In all the posts, I don't see any on the less expensive, cheaper built, lighter, roomier (slide out), trailers like Jayco Featherweight, Keystone, Heartland, and similar. I realize the aerodynamics plays a part. However wouldn't towing a 3500lb trailer with 350lb hitch weight take less power to tow than a 5000lb / 500lb Airstream? We can get a 19' Jayco with a pull out, murphy bed, that has a lot more room than any of the ones mentioned and they are 1/3 the price.

My thought was to buy a used Jayco or similar for $10-$15k. Try it for a year and see how we do with it. If we get used to the limited space, we would consider moving up to one of the 1st class trailers. If not, use it for weekends camping with the grandkids. But it worries me that I don't see any posts on Tesla forums about towing these types of trailers. The ones I am looking at have curved fronts for better aerodynamics, but the backs are flat which hurt. What am I missing? Do any X owners have a trailer like these?

Any information, comments, experiences, advice, would be appreciated. I apologize if this has been previously discussed; I just could not find anything. New member, great forum. Thanks! (The road trip posts are excellent resources for EV newbies...)

 

[ecarfan]

wouldn't towing a 3500lb trailer with 350lb hitch weight take less power to tow than a 5000lb / 500lb Airstream?

At highway speeds, the aerodynamics of the trailer have the largest impact on energy usage. So a squarish Jayco is going to require more energy to tow at 60mph than an Airstream with fully rounded corners front and rear even if the Airstream is much heavier. And the shape of the Bowlus Road Chief is the clear aerodynamic winner!

Obviously, my choice was an Alto for a variety of reasons which I list in detail here https://electrictravels.blog/2018/09/05/a-safari-condo-is-not-an-apartment-in-the-serengeti/ .

 

[Lee K.]

At highway speeds, the aerodynamics of the trailer have the largest impact on energy usage. So a squarish Jayco is going to require more energy to tow at 60mph than an Airstream with fully rounded corners front and rear even if the Airstream is much heavier. And the shape of the Bowlus Road Chief is the clear aerodynamic winner!

Obviously, my choice was an Alto for a variety of reasons which I list in detail here https://electrictravels.blog/2018/09/05/a-safari-condo-is-not-an-apartment-in-the-serengeti/ .

Thanks for your reply. I read your blog post previously. The F2114 would be an option. The negatives are cost, no US dealers for service, no slide out, and no separate shower. Considering aerodynamics, how is the F2114 more efficient than ones we are looking at with similar shaped curved front and back? There doesn't seem to be a major difference, more like a slight difference. Losing a few more miles in range would be worth it for us. Thoughts?

 

[ecarfan]

The aerodynamics of the Alto F2114 are, in my opinion, little different from my F1743. Same shape front and rear, just 4 feet longer. I would not expect it would take significantly more energy to tow the F2114 compared to my trailer.

The bathroom in the 2114 is the same as the 1743. They offer a very usable toilet and shower. The advantage of the F2114 is a king size vs. queen size bed, larger refrigerator and table and more storage.

Regarding slide outs; I have never owned a trailer with that feature but I would not want to. Based on what I’ve read, they can leak and the mechanism can fail.

My thought was to buy a used Jayco or similar for $10-$15k. Try it for a year and see how we do with it. If we get used to the limited space, we would consider moving up to one of the 1st class trailers.

That is a reasonable plan. I have a good friend who bought a 20 ft Jayco. His first ever trailer. He used it for a year and disliked it so much (he hated the low quality construction) that he bought a 24 ft Airstream which he is very happy with (note: he does not tow with an X).

There is a reason Jaycos are lower cost. In my opinion, the Safari Condo Alto is built to a very high level of quality. And it costs more.

 

[Michelx]

2019 Model X Performance with 20" wheels. My wife and I are considering trying a travel trailer. I've read all the forums here. We've looked at Airstreams in person (Bambi 22' is our favorite). We've checked out the Bowlus, Altos, Safari Condos, etc online. The Airstream seems to be the best option for space, but the weight concerns me. We traded in our Escalade and were considering a 5th wheel or motorhome. We're now retired and would like to travel the US more. How we ended up with the Tesla X I don't know, but we love it! We're fine with the shorter range when towing. Having a hard time with the small trailer options though.

In all the posts, I don't see any on the less expensive, cheaper built, lighter, roomier (slide out), trailers like Jayco Featherweight, Keystone, Heartland, and similar. I realize the aerodynamics plays a part. However wouldn't towing a 3500lb trailer with 350lb hitch weight take less power to tow than a 5000lb / 500lb Airstream? We can get a 19' Jayco with a pull out, murphy bed, that has a lot more room than any of the ones mentioned and they are 1/3 the price.

My thought was to buy a used Jayco or similar for $10-$15k. Try it for a year and see how we do with it. If we get used to the limited space, we would consider moving up to one of the 1st class trailers. If not, use it for weekends camping with the grandkids. But it worries me that I don't see any posts on Tesla forums about towing these types of trailers. The ones I am looking at have curved fronts for better aerodynamics, but the backs are flat which hurt. What am I missing? Do any X owners have a trailer like these?

Any information, comments, experiences, advice, would be appreciated. I apologize if this has been previously discussed; I just could not find anything. New member, great forum. Thanks! (The road trip posts are excellent resources for EV newbies...)

Model X 90D (2016 nov built) Bought a Rpod 178 trailer last sept. only 2 short trips before end of camping season and realized that towing it cut range by almost 50% at 90 KMH 55 MPH

 

[ecarfan]

Model X 90D (2016 nov built) Bought a Rpod 178 trailer last sept. only 2 short trips before end of camping season and realized that towing it cut range by almost 50% at 90 KMH 55 MPH

I’m a bit surprised by that much range loss while towing an R-POD 178. That trailer is slightly narrow than mine though a bit taller, and has a very rounded front end along the long axis. But it weighs 1,200 lbs more. Still, at 55mph I wouldn’t expect that much range loss. At 55mph my range loss on a level, dry road with no headwind is about 30%.

My friend with a 24’ Airstream and a Ford F-150 sees his MPG reduced by more than 50% when towing at 65-70mph. He told me it costs him about $100 in gas to go 400 miles!

 

[Michelx]

I’m a bit surprised by that much range loss while towing an R-POD 178. That trailer is slightly narrow than mine though a bit taller, and has a very rounded front end along the long axis. But it weighs 1,200 lbs more. Still, at 55mph I wouldn’t expect that much range loss. At 55mph my range loss on a level, dry road with no headwind is about 30%.

My friend with a 24’ Airstream and a Ford F-150 sees his MPG reduced by more than 50% when towing at 65-70mph. He told me it costs him about $100 in gas to go 400 miles!

The temperature here in Québec in september is often in the low 50's deg. F maybe denser air has something to do with high watts per KM (or mile)

 

[ecarfan]

The temperature here in Québec in september is often in the low 50's deg. F maybe denser air has something to do with high watts per KM (or mile)

It absolutely does. Cold air is denser which increases aerodynamic drag (harder to push through) which increases energy usage. It’s a small but measurable effect.

 

[alphainfinity]

You can take my advice or leave it, it is up to you. Before buying my 30foot Classic Airstream, I had a 42foot Tiffin Bus . I towed a longbed truck behind the bus. Before that, I towed a 42 foot Montana 5th wheel. So, I do have some experience. I have towed all over the US and some parts of Canada. Lot's of Mountain passes in all types of weather. A picture of my current RV setup is below.

The X is great for what it is built to do but towing is not one of them. Here are the reasons why I would suggest you get a tow vehicle that is designed to do the job:

1. Limited LEGAL cargo capacity on the X. That means that you take the hitch weight of what you are towing, add it to the weight of passengers and cargo inside the vehicle. You will often find yourself over the cargo capacity. This is before adding the weight of a weight distribution hitch. If you end up in some kind of wreck, especially one where somebody else gets hurt.....lots of liability and your insurance company may not back you if the X was over its rated capacity. Do your research and make sure if you decide to tow with the X, you are not over the rated capacity of the vehicle(that means towing AND cargo). Every truck stop has a scale, you can pay to weigh your setup and know exactly what you weigh.

2. The X will eat an ungodly amount of energy pulling a trailer of pretty much any kind. TFL and others have videos of the X pulling and while the instant torque is GREAT, the energy burn is really high. It gets worse if you are towing in cold or hot conditions because you are using more energy to cool/heat the cabin.

3. That brings me to my next point. Are you ready to unhook to recharge at a supercharger? Is there a flat stable place to do so near the supercharger? You can't back in and you can't block alll of the other superchargers. You could charge at pretty much any RV park at a MUCH slower rate on the 50AMP pod. Some might say that you can hook up to the 30 with the trailer and then the 50 with the Tesla but most pods are designed to only supply UP TO 50amps.
4. Integrated brake controllers are much better than aftermarket for a number of reasons, one being that they tie into the ABS system of the tow vehicle, are integrated with the trailer sway control built into the vehicle etc etc
5. I personally like to have more brakes and powertrain than are required to do the job.

Anyways, you can take my advice or leave it. Tesla will at some point in time make towing more viable(Cybertruck, and yes I have a pre-prder), but if you can charge them with your trailer attached, I won't be going that route anytime soon. 4

 

[ecarfan]

Before buying my 30foot Classic Airstream, I had a 42foot Tiffin Bus . I towed a longbed truck behind the bus. Before that, I towed a 42 foot Montana 5th wheel. So, I do have some experience. I have towed all over the US and some parts of Canada. Lot's of Mountain passes in all types of weather. A picture of my current RV setup is below.

I respect your experience. Though this thread is about the OP posing questions about “towing a 3500lb trailer with 350lb hitch weight”, so much lighter trailers than what you list.

Limited LEGAL cargo capacity on the X. That means that you take the hitch weight of what you are towing, add it to the weight of passengers and cargo inside the vehicle. You will often find yourself over the cargo capacity

During my over 10,000 miles with my X towing my trailer in the past two years I have not exceeded the cargo capacity of my X.

The Model X100D GVWR is 6,786 lbs. Curb weight is 5,541 lbs. So the cargo capacity is 1,245 lbs. When I tow my tongue weight is about 280-290 lbs. My wife and I together weigh less than 300 lbs. I have less than 200 lbs of gear in the car.

I appreciate that with 4 adult passengers and a lot of gear and towing a bigger trailer with a higher tongue weight it would certainly be possible to exceed the cargo capacity of an X.

The X will eat an ungodly amount of energy pulling a trailer of pretty much any kind.

”Ungodly” is not very quantitative. While towing my 17 ft / 2200 lbs fully loaded trailer I use anywhere from 485Wh/mi (ideal conditions) to over 700Wh/mi (e.g. in heavy rain going uphill). I do plan my trips carefully. There are a some places I would like to go with my trailer that currently are not possible because my desired destination has no power for charging AND is too far away from a Tesla Supercharger or other type of EV charger. But I have found plenty of fun camping destinations all over the Western US that I can reach while towing with my X. Of course if I camp at an RV campground with hookups I charge my car at my campsite. And as the Supercharger network continues to expand, fewer and fewer destinations will be unreachable. Just in the past two years the number of Superchargers has increased dramatically. This trend will continue.

Some might say that you can hook up to the 30 with the trailer and then the 50 with the Tesla but most pods are designed to only supply UP TO 50amps.

That is correct. I often charge my X using the 30A plug at an RV campground campsite but of course it’s slow. If I have a 50A plug at my campsite I use it to charge the car and I power the trailer off my battery, which works fine for me.

That brings me to my next point. Are you ready to unhook to recharge at a supercharger? I

I do it all the time. Takes less than 3 minutes. It’s a non-issue to me.

Integrated brake controllers are much better than aftermarket for a number of reasons, one being that they tie into the ABS system of the tow vehicle, are integrated with the trailer sway control built into the vehicle etc etc

That may well be true. I have not had any issues with the Tekonsha P3 brake controller I installed in my X.

I fully acknowledge that towing a trailer with an X is in many ways less convenient than towing with an ICE vehicle, and that no EV can tow the rig shown in your photo. But based on my experience and the experience of many other X owners who are on TMC (and towing larger and heavier trailers than mine) it is clear that the X is a capable tow vehicle for some trailers. For people who are used to towing a big rig with an ICE I can understand how towing with an X can appear to be very limiting. My wife and I are having a great time traveling in our X with our trailer.

At Joshua Tree National park, no hookup, Twenty Nine Palms Supercharger just a 15 minute drive away.

Sugarloaf Ridge State Park near Sonoma CA, no hookup, multiple Superchargers available with a 40 minute drive.

 

[Kiwiadventure]

Until Cyber Truck arrives stay with ICE as towing is not a strong point for X in other words you would have to be insane to tow anymore than a light trailer or carry bikes on a Tesla tow hitch.

 

[ecarfan]

Until Cyber Truck arrives stay with ICE as towing is not a strong point for X in other words you would have to be insane to tow anymore than a light trailer or carry bikes on a Tesla tow hitch.

I do not consider myself “insane”, and have towed my 2,200 lb (loaded) trailer over 10,000 miles. The OP is discussing towing a 3,500 lb trailer (well under Tesla’s 5,000 lb spec) and there are many other X owners who have posted on TMC towing heavier trailers without a problem.

 

[Kiwiadventure]

I do not consider myself “insane”, and have towed my 2,200 lb (loaded) trailer over 10,000 miles. The OP is discussing towing a 3,500 lb trailer (well under Tesla’s 5,000 lb spec) and there are many other X owners who have posted on TMC towing heavier trailers without a problem.

I was making the comment for the picture shown of a very large heavy trailer. The trailer you tow is light weight and you're enjoying every minute you're out in the country side.
We have to be careful of the weight of trailers as we may require a truck licence to tow that weight including the weight of the towing vehicle combined. Most drivers don't realise they may require a truck licence and end up not being paid out by their insurance company after an accident not having the correct class of driving licence.

 

[ecarfan]

I was making the comment for the picture shown of a very large heavy trailer.

I assume you are referring to the photo in post #9? That trailer is clearly well above the towing specs of a Model X, and the person who posted that photo tows with an ICE truck. No one here is saying that trailer could be towed with a Tesla. This thread is not about trailers of that size and weight. The first post in the thread describes the topic. The main question is:

However wouldn't towing a 3500lb trailer with 350lb hitch weight take less power to tow than a 5000lb / 500lb Airstream?

Lee wants to know about towing a 3500 lb trailer with an X. There are multiple people on TMC who tow trailers of that weight or greater. It is certainly feasible. A 3500 lb trailer will take less energy to tow than a 5000 lb trailer, but at highway speeds the shape of the trailer is more important than the weight.

I realize you are in New Zealand. The OP is in Nevada. In California the towing weight limits for a standard “Class C” drivers license are listed on this page License Classes License Requirements . A car under 4,000 lbs cannot tow anything over 6,000 lbs. A car/truck over 4,000 lbs cannot tow anything over 9,000 lbs. So well over the rated towing capacity of a Model X. I searched but had difficulty finding the numbers for Nevada. I suspect they are similar.

 

[alphainfinity]

Also, just a friendly reminder that a weight distribution hitch should be used when the trailer weight exceeds 50% of the GVRW of the X.

Common Weight Distribution and Sway Control Questions | etrailer.com

Be safe out there and have fun!

 

[steilkurve]

Also, just a friendly reminder that a weight distribution hitch should be used when the trailer weight exceeds 50% of the GVRW of the X.

No doubt WD helps stabilize your rig. However, not sure if it's because of the removable nature of their hitch receiver or the air suspension or maybe both but Tesla does not recommend using a WD system. Therefore, I don't think we can state that 'a WD hitch should be used when the trailer weight exceeds 50% of the X'. While it is a general rule of thumb when towing and good advice typically, it is not a manufacturer recommendation for that car. Also note Tesla has been towing their mobile studio, a converted Airstream Sport, and they have done so without a WD system. That being said, a few owners here do use a WD hitch and aside from experiencing issues with the OEM hitch receiver, it seems to work fine. I personally do not use one right now but am toying with the idea.

On the broader point of this thread and to the OP, I have been towing with my X100D a 2020 Airstream Bambi 22FB that I got in August. The exact trailer you are considering. Its dry weight is 3900. We barely leave anything of significant weight in it so at best it hits 4200 in my estimation. And while the official tongue weight is 500, the highest I've come in at with full propane tanks is 490. I use a Weigh Safe ball at @ecarfan 's advice. Very convenient to ensure tongue weight is kept in check.

I've seen situations where I have a 50% range loss or slightly more but in most cases, I've been between 35 and 45% of loss. That's likely because I maintain a slower speed for consumption and safety. As @ecarfan, I use a combination of SuperChargers and charging at camp sites and plan my trips carefully. At SuperChargers, I've done everything... I've unpinned the trailer, I've visited a few rare ones where you can actually drive in with your rig and I've parked sideways when visiting empty SuperChargers (and staying by my rig if it needs to get moved). Never been an issue and we always maximize that time and use it for a meal, buy groceries, restroom stops, etc.

I do have a CYBERTRUCK reservation because I wouldn't mind the extra range and potentially move to a larger trailer in the future but for now, we could not be happier with our TT or TV. Can't wait for winter to go away so we can tow again!

@Lee K. don't hesitate if you have specific questions about the AS.

 

[sullys]

I respect your experience. Though this thread is about the OP posing questions about “towing a 3500lb trailer with 350lb hitch weight”, so much lighter trailers than what you list.
During my over 10,000 miles with my X towing my trailer in the past two years I have not exceeded the cargo capacity of my X.

The Model X100D GVWR is 6,786 lbs. Curb weight is 5,541 lbs. So the cargo capacity is 1,245 lbs. When I tow my tongue weight is about 280-290 lbs. My wife and I together weigh less than 300 lbs. I have less than 200 lbs of gear in the car.

I appreciate that with 4 adult passengers and a lot of gear and towing a bigger trailer with a higher tongue weight it would certainly be possible to exceed the cargo capacity of an X.

”Ungodly” is not very quantitative. While towing my 17 ft / 2200 lbs fully loaded trailer I use anywhere from 485Wh/mi (ideal conditions) to over 700Wh/mi (e.g. in heavy rain going uphill). I do plan my trips carefully. There are a some places I would like to go with my trailer that currently are not possible because my desired destination has no power for charging AND is too far away from a Tesla Supercharger or other type of EV charger. But I have found plenty of fun camping destinations all over the Western US that I can reach while towing with my X. Of course if I camp at an RV campground with hookups I charge my car at my campsite. And as the Supercharger network continues to expand, fewer and fewer destinations will be unreachable. Just in the past two years the number of Superchargers has increased dramatically. This trend will continue.

That is correct. I often charge my X using the 30A plug at an RV campground campsite but of course it’s slow. If I have a 50A plug at my campsite I use it to charge the car and I power the trailer off my battery, which works fine for me.

I do it all the time. Takes less than 3 minutes. It’s a non-issue to me.

That may well be true. I have not had any issues with the Tekonsha P3 brake controller I installed in my X.

I fully acknowledge that towing a trailer with an X is in many ways less convenient than towing with an ICE vehicle, and that no EV can tow the rig shown in your photo. But based on my experience and the experience of many other X owners who are on TMC (and towing larger and heavier trailers than mine) it is clear that the X is a capable tow vehicle for some trailers. For people who are used to towing a big rig with an ICE I can understand how towing with an X can appear to be very limiting. My wife and I are having a great time traveling in our X with our trailer.

At Joshua Tree National park, no hookup, Twenty Nine Palms Supercharger just a 15 minute drive away.
View attachment 492423

Sugarloaf Ridge State Park near Sonoma CA, no hookup, multiple Superchargers available with a 40 minute drive.
View attachment 492425

 

[sullys]

I'm new to posting, although not new to Teslas at all. This post is quite reassuring. I have a 2020 model X long range; I have been considering buying a nucamp T@B 320s trailer, 1500lb, and 15.6 ft long. From what I am reading, we could probably manage a cross-country trip, understanding that our range would be decreased quite a bit. Am I correct? Just want to avoid staying in hotels etc in this post-covid world. Thanks for any further reassurances!

 

[Michelx]

I'm new to posting, although not new to Teslas at all. This post is quite reassuring. I have a 2020 model X long range; I have been considering buying a nucamp T@B 320s trailer, 1500lb, and 15.6 ft long. From what I am reading, we could probably manage a cross-country trip, understanding that our range would be decreased quite a bit. Am I correct? Just want to avoid staying in hotels etc in this post-covid world. Thanks for any further reassurances!

I tow a RPOD 178 with my 2016 Model X 90D and range is cut by about 45%

 

[Hblick48]

Just bought MS in June. Love the car. Our other vehicles are Ford F250 diesel towing 33 foot Montana fifth wheel. We love to RV and the idea of towing with MX has been discussed.

Thinking about getting MX 100D and towing Gulf Stream 19SSK within the next 12 months. We're retired and never drive more than 300 miles a day, most times less. If range is reduced 50%, we still should be able to make our 300 miles.