Toyota will not invest in electric cars in UK until at least 2034
They could have put the full-stop after "cars".
They could have put the full-stop after "cars".
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Toyota taking the lead again
- Thread starter pdk42
- Start date
And, leave out the word electric.
That’s what happens in family run companies - you don’t have the best people running them.
ACarneiro
Active Member
Calm down, everyone.
It just says they won't be building BEVs in that particular UK factory.
Although their obsession with Hybrids is infuriating.
They are clearly playing it safe. Let the others take the risk, make the mistakes and develop the tech and when it's all mature enough they'll jump on the bandwagon.
It's a coward's way but they've been pulling it off successfully for decades.
Personally, I hope they burn. I hate cowards.
It just says they won't be building BEVs in that particular UK factory.
Although their obsession with Hybrids is infuriating.
They are clearly playing it safe. Let the others take the risk, make the mistakes and develop the tech and when it's all mature enough they'll jump on the bandwagon.
It's a coward's way but they've been pulling it off successfully for decades.
Personally, I hope they burn. I hate cowards.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
It's bizarre, really, given the massive amount of R&D Toyota did in the 1990s, that led to the Prius. At the time, they were probably the only car maker investing heavily in electric drive technology for a mass produced car. Their stated intention back then was to use the hybrid synergy drive programme as a stepping stone to all electric cars, yet for some reason they've chosen to change course.
Yep.
They've launched the The All-Electric UX 300e | Lexus Europe in a number of markets. I also saw Toyota Premieres Toyota-brand Battery Electric Vehicles Ahead of 2020 China Launch | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website (C-HR and IZOA BEVs) in a video from 2020 Chengdu Motor Show Explains Why China Is The Global Epicenter for EVs. Skip to about 8:50.
I owned an 06 Prius for a bit over 13 years and was a Prius enthusiast.
Why would any large car maker invest in retooling a plant in the UK? Far more sensible to invest in European plants where there is a larger market unhindered by the madness that is infesting the UK parliament at the moment.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
They've already invested in producing cars with electric drive trains etc at Burnaston, had a tour around there years ago with a few other Prius owners. Given that hybrids have an electric drive train that's not that different to an EV (in the case of Toyota, a battery pack, two inverters and two brushless motor generators), in terms of technology there's no big jump from a car with HSD to a pure EV.
On the contrary, it's probably more complicated. The best EVs are ground-up designs. The current ICE makers are trying (in the main) to use an ICE platform as BEV, which is far less than optimal.
Regarding Topyat's particular decision not to make further investments, the reason is clearly stated in the article and it is down solely to the dreaded "B" word.
This article has nothing to do with Toyota's investment in BEV. It's entirely about the UKs manufacturing sector decline in the face of Brexit and the international irrelevance it will bring.
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
There was some EVs build at that time, like the VW Golf EV CityStromer, but their production were very limited.
But you are right, the Prius was the first mass produced 100% EV... with a 3 miles range !!!
I mean by 100% EV, that the air conditioning (and also power steering and power assistance breaking) was electric,
thus not requiring to start the fuel engine, which was not the case with the Honda Insight for example.
I always thought that those amphibians (as Elon Must called hybrids) would be a transition
allowing validating all the components of a full EV and giving time to suppliers to develop new specific EV components.
However, except for Nissan with the leaf, any major car manufacturers build any EVs, or only as compliance cars for getting green credits.
Manufacturers have conflict of interests, having a difficult decision to close engines and gear boxes manufacturing plants.
Also in countries like Japan, employment is often a lifetime guarantee and in other countries Unions would make similar requests.
In many countries big companies get pressures from governments and lobbies, like the oil industries, to decide their future productions.
It is sure that we are at a similar transition from manufacturing mechanical watches to electrical watches, or idem with digital cameras...
The car industry also heavily is dependent on suppliers. In particular, for the EV industry, the key components are the batteries.
To develop batteries at a mass production level, the chock point is getting raw materials, like rare earth elements, in a large amounts.
Getting large amount of rare earth elements requires getting new mines to be created to increase the productions.
Those kind of decisions cannot really be made at a supplier level and car manufacturers levels, but more at a government level.
Thus creating a new dependency.
Pressure from the competition, in particular the coming domination of the EV industry (cars and trucks) by companies like Tesla,
and also some government decisions, such as banning ICE-only vehicles, can only accelerate the transition to EV transportation.
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Glan gluaisne
Active Member
If you've read up on how Toyota approached the millennium car project, and looked at the technology within the HSD, then it's very obvious that it is a ground-up electric drive train, that happens to have an ICE coupled in via a clever in-line differential. There's almost nothing in common between the HSD cars and conventional ICE cars. They use electronic control of the inverters to control the speed of the car, via clever use of two MGs, one of which can also do secondary duty as a starter motor for the ICE.
There's no gearbox, no clutch, no torque converter, just two brushless motor generators permanently coupled to the drive shafts. All apparent gear ratio changes between the ICE input shaft and the output shafts is done by the inverters varying the speed and direction of one of the MGs. The ICE could be unbolted from the HSD and pretty much everything would still work OK without it, as the base car is, to all intents and purposes, an EV.
This is where Toyota were so damned clever with the HSD design, they created a unique electric drive train that allowed them to develop a better practical understanding of EV requirements (bearing in mind this project started back in the early 1990s). They had lots of trials and tribulations with everything from inverter IGBTs not being available (those that were kept blowing up, so they designed their own) to battery technology not being sufficiently reliable (they brought battery manufacture in-house to fix that).
The Toyota HSD is completely unlike every other hybrid car on the road. Other manufacturers have had to find different ways to produce hybrids, and most have been a bit of a kludge. The story of Toyota's development of the millennium car project, detailed in the book they produced at the time, "Prius that shook the world" is well worth a read, as it was a development programme that was wholly alien to the way Toyota has traditionally worked. I'm deeply disappointed with Toyota at having dropped the ball when it comes to pushing on with the EV development that the millennium car project started.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
Bear in mind that, at the time the millennium car project started, the only battery technology that was available was nickel metal hydride. Toyota started this programme 30 years ago, long before Musk had even dreamt of creating Tesla. They had a massive technological lead over the rest of the motor industry when they launched the Prius in 1997, something they seem to have just thrown away, by not continuing with the original aims of the project.
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
As a former toyota employee (aftermarket, 16 years), I'd like to remind you that one of the major reasons for toyota dragging their feet is the fact that their aftermarket is their real moneymaker, and the reduced maintenance requirements of EV's will hit them very hard indeed.
It will put a lot of people out of work, and was one of the reasons I left. I do not want to be a part of the decline.
It will put a lot of people out of work, and was one of the reasons I left. I do not want to be a part of the decline.
ACarneiro
Active Member
I reported one of my own posts and asked the relevant posts to be taken down.
I’m really sorry guys, I hope you don’t take offence but what started somewhat light-spirited did go downhill quite quickly and was threatening to ruin an interesting thread and annoy people whom I positively value for their contributions.
So yeah, I ratted out. :/
I’m really sorry guys, I hope you don’t take offence but what started somewhat light-spirited did go downhill quite quickly and was threatening to ruin an interesting thread and annoy people whom I positively value for their contributions.
So yeah, I ratted out. :/
Well, I agree actually. Politics has its place, but on forums focused on other things, they can cause splits that get in the way and lead to bad feeling between members who were previously very happy to converse on topics relevant to the forum.
