It is still not clear to me what is causing the limitation. If it's the inverter, it can be redesigned for better cooling. If it is the front inductance motor, then the only fix is replacing it with a permanent magnet motor. If the permanent magnet motor is at its limits as well, then a completely new motor design is needed as well. And here comes the question, shall it be built for the track or for everyday use? Model 3 is optimized for everyday use.
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Track Mode - a day with HOD @ Laguna - my personal observations…
- Thread starter dortor4ev
- Start date
It is still not clear to me what is causing the limitation. If it's the inverter, it can be redesigned for better cooling. If it is the front inductance motor, then the only fix is replacing it with a permanent magnet motor. If the permanent magnet motor is at its limits as well, then a completely new motor design is needed as well. And here comes the question, shall it be built for the track or for everyday use? Model 3 is optimized for everyday use.
Based on some of the comments from Tesla it seems it might be the motor(s). I've seen statements that the system "borrows" from the colder batteries to cool the hotter motor. Track vs road is tricky. In an ICE vehicle there isn't a huge cooling requirement delta there for most cars and obviously you can goose the system fairly easily. I assume we will be left to the aftermarket.
Yes. Tesla could have put a large radiator in the front but that would increase the air drag which lowers the range.
Both RWD and AWD cars reach power limiting on track at roughly the same time, so i'd posit that it's not the front motor but is the inverter itself.
Do we know that the coolant loops even use a radiator? From what i've seen, we know that the AC compressor uses that radiator - but i'm not sure if the coolant loops do too. I think the battery and motor coolant loops are purely chilled by the AC refrigerant via that plate heat exchanger, but definitely could be wrong.
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
I believe that Tesla is able to shunt the A/C cooling from the passenger compartment to cooling overheating components. Think we will see more of this as the performance package software gets updated.
I have driven Laguna several times, and that track is murder on brakes. Most all ICE cars also suffer and learn to save their brakes a bit for the most critical areas, such as downhill braking.
I have driven Laguna several times, and that track is murder on brakes. Most all ICE cars also suffer and learn to save their brakes a bit for the most critical areas, such as downhill braking.
Ops, I'm still thinking about the ICE coolant structure.
This is for the Model S here:
1 Coolant radiator
2 Sub-cool condenser and fan
3 Battery coolant chiller
4 Compressor
5 DCDC converter
6 HVAC blower motor
7 Evaporator
8 PTC heater
9 Battery coolant heater (Model 3 doesn't have this I believe)
10 Battery
11 Drive inverter
12 Gearbox
13 Motor stator
14 Motor rotor
15 Onboard slave charger
16 Onboard master charger
17 Coolant reservoir
18 Gas-cool condenser and fan
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I mean, selfishly I'd like to see it, but they have already spent a good bit of resources on something that 99% of drivers will never use.
ok - I'm going to come to Refuel - also I'm going to be competitive! I have thoughts have my experience - I think I can make it go faster - we'll see in July 2019
Best image I can find of the Model 3 TMS, which uses a single loop as opposed to S/X's three, is from SeekingAlpha:
The article is from 2016 so a few things might have changed in the meantime.
The article is from 2016 so a few things might have changed in the meantime.
Looking through that video, it looks like it might be possible to cool the oil inside the DU with an aftermarket oil cooler, and a small fan perhaps to assist with airflow. Though, if the DU oil temperatures are not very high compared with ambient, then the efficiency of an aftermarket oil cooler wouldn't be great, perhaps not even worth it.
The only other things I can think of that would be easy first steps for the aftermarket would be applied heat sinks to the DU housing itself.
Does anyone have an idea what sort of temperatures we are talking about with the coolant loop, and oil inside the DU?
The only other things I can think of that would be easy first steps for the aftermarket would be applied heat sinks to the DU housing itself.
Does anyone have an idea what sort of temperatures we are talking about with the coolant loop, and oil inside the DU?
So there you go. Spray radiator with CO2 whenever temp exceeds X degrees. Store 5lb CO2 tank in the frunk area.Best image I can find of the Model 3 TMS, which uses a single loop as opposed to S/X's three, is from SeekingAlpha:
The article is from 2016 so a few things might have changed in the meantime.
Best image I can find of the Model 3 TMS, which uses a single loop as opposed to S/X's three, is from SeekingAlpha:
The article is from 2016 so a few things might have changed in the meantime.
We know that the battery pack isn't air-cooled so I think you can completely discard this diagram as something someone made up without knowledge of the actual systems. (I guess no surprise as it comes from Seeking Alpha.)
Other things:
- The charger is in the battery pack, and not inline with the rear DU.
- There is no auxiliary electric heater for the battery pack.
- There is no mention of SuperBottle who controls all of the cooling.
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You're assuming the coolant loop for the car goes through the radiator. That diagram is definitely not correct.
Also, the cooling capacity from a CO2 spray likely would be much less than what they are getting with the plate chiller and refrigerant.
I wonder what the next iteration of track mode will bring. I really hope that more adjust ability is in the cards. I have to imagine that now that track mode is released, they will tweak it a bit to give the user more control.
Hopefully, after designing TM for the P3- folks, they are going to add new features and add adjustment.
1. Drift mode, perhaps turning off the front motor entirely. Ability to adjust the power balance between both DU.
2. Sliders to effect the behavior of various inputs (how long to wait after sharp braking before regen kicks in for instance.)
3. Ability to turn regenerative braking down to low to further reduce heat loading (assuming braking is a large portion of the DU heat load)
4. Diagnostic mode, so we can evaluate the heat of individual components and watch out for impending failures
5. Including some additional information in the dashcam and UI, like speed to the dash cam, G force, steering and throttle brake input levels, lap time recording capability
Hopefully, after designing TM for the P3- folks, they are going to add new features and add adjustment.
1. Drift mode, perhaps turning off the front motor entirely. Ability to adjust the power balance between both DU.
2. Sliders to effect the behavior of various inputs (how long to wait after sharp braking before regen kicks in for instance.)
3. Ability to turn regenerative braking down to low to further reduce heat loading (assuming braking is a large portion of the DU heat load)
4. Diagnostic mode, so we can evaluate the heat of individual components and watch out for impending failures
5. Including some additional information in the dashcam and UI, like speed to the dash cam, G force, steering and throttle brake input levels, lap time recording capability
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