tracking automaker nacs adoption in NA

[unk45]

So Mazda isn’t a “major” brand?

Good question. After a couple of attempts, notably with Ford, Mazda signed an agreement with Toyota in 2015.
toyota-mazda-form-partnership-to-share-technologies-confront-cost-challenges
So in 2017 they signed a deal with Toyota and Denso for BEV

Mazda, Denso, and Toyota Sign Joint Technology Development Contract for Electric Vehicles | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

Mazda Motor Corporation (Mazda), Denso Corporation (Denso), and Toyota Motor Corporation (Toyota) signed a contract today to jointly develop basic structural technologies for electric vehicles. Furthermore, the three companies have also decided to establish a new company consisting of selected...

global.toyota

That suggests that Mazda may sign independently, may not.

 

[unk45]

Note on VAG and Stellantis.
It seems likely,I think, that VAG and Stellantis are also of the majors because they both want to link the deal for NACS wo the EU access to Superchargers and, more specifically, coordinated for EU Urban commercial vehicle access, specifically increasing center city infrastructure. Why? Nearly all major EU center cities are BEV only now and even the holdouts are decreasing. That makes commercial vehicle infrastructure more critical. Of course there are huge increases in charging infrastructure in all these places...but...since all EU Superchargers are now with standard CCS-2 the compatibility is not an issue, but charging access payment/authorization standards are presently quite varied. Tesla can help facilitate that for both of them.

After all, considering their positions in the EU and considering that Tesla really needs good will in Germany, France, Italy, Spain etc, it's quite likely that all three would not mind allying to a degree in lessening the Chinese onslaught.

I still think they'll both be in within days, with broader agreements than just NA, whether 100% disclosed or not.
Anyway, are not several of these recent adoptees buyers of Tesla emission credits?

 

[threeputts]

11/1/23 Subaru

 

[threeputts]

11/6/23 Lucid! I’m seriously surprised at this one.

Mazda, VW or Stellantis…who wants to be last to sign on?

 

[Samurai51]

11/6/23 Lucid! I’m seriously surprised at this one.

Mazda, VW or Stellantis…who wants to be last to sign on?

Mazda is barely relevant. If they become the final hold out, it's not like they can single-handedly keep CCS alive. I believe Kyle from Out of Spec when he spoke privately with some VW executives. They apparently said, "We're trying to figure it out" meaning getting on board with NACS. It's all inevitable now. Just a question of how and when the final agreement is reached for the final hold outs.

 

[davewill]

With VW's involvment in Electrify America, they also need to work out that transition as well.

 

[MP3Mike]

Any thoughts on who will be first non Tesla auto with an NACS native port to be available for purchase ?

Likely Hyundai/Kia, they are saying Q4 of 2024. I think almost everyone else has said 2025 or later.

 

[corbin630]

Likely Hyundai/Kia, they are saying Q4 of 2024. I think almost everyone else has said 2025 or later.

They all said model year 2025 which they start selling in Q3 and Q4 of 2024.

 

[MP3Mike]

They all said model year 2025 which they start selling in Q3 and Q4 of 2024.

I don't think so. Here is what Ford says:

Ford will equip future EVs with the NACS charge port, removing the need for an adapter for direct access to Tesla Superchargers, starting in 2025.

No mention of Model Year, just that in 2025 they will add the NACS port.

And GM:

Beginning in 2025, the first GM EVs will be built with a NACS inlet for direct access to Tesla Superchargers without an adapter.

Again, no mention of Model Year, just that in 2025 they will add the NACS port.

And Rivian:

NACS charge ports will be standard in future R1 vehicles starting in 2025, as well as in Rivian's upcoming R2 platform.

And Mercedes:

Mercedes-Benz will be the first German OEM to implement NACS ports into its new electric vehicles starting in 2025.

Nissan:

Starting in 2025, Nissan will begin offering EVs for the U.S. and Canadian markets with a NACS port.

Jaguar:

All new Jaguars sold in the region from 2025 will have full integration of North American Charging Standard (NACS) without the need for an adapter.

BMW:

As part of the arrangement, the BMW Group will also adopt the North American Charging Standard (NACS) for its battery electric vehicles in the U.S. and Canada, starting in 2025.

Can you provide any example of an OEM actually saying they are going to include NACS in Model Year 2025 vehicles? (All the references I found just say "in 2025", not "starting with 2025 vehicles".)

 

[corbin630]

I don't think so. Here is what Ford says:



No mention of Model Year, just that in 2025 they will add the NACS port.

And GM:



Again, no mention of Model Year, just that in 2025 they will add the NACS port.

And Rivian:



And Mercedes:



Nissan:


Jaguar:


BMW:


Can you provide any example of an OEM actually saying they are going to include NACS in Model Year 2025 vehicles? (All the references I found just say "in 2025", not "starting with 2025 vehicles".)

I have heard it from interviews. I can look for examples, but the way that automakers who are not Tesla work is they make all of their changes for the model year and do not change mid-year. GM when interviewed said that the 2025 Model Year Silverado will have NACS and the 2024 Model Year will not. This is how the automakers work.

GM’s Chevy Silverado EV To Get Tesla’s NACS Port From 2025 Model Year

The comment comes as the first units of the 2024 Silverado all-electric pickup are rolling off the assembly line at GM’s Detroit-Hamtramck plant.

insideevs.com

General Motors doesn’t expect to equip the all-new Chevrolet Silverado EV pickup with Tesla’s North American Charging Standard (NACS) connector before the 2025 model year, according to Reuters.

The comment comes as the first units of the 2024 Silverado all-electric pickup are rolling off the assembly line at GM’s Detroit-Hamtramck plant, with deliveries expected to reach fleet customers in a few weeks.


We currently don’t know when the 2025 model year will be revealed by Chevrolet, or when it will go on sale, but if we were to guess, we’d say sometime in the second half of next year.

 

[E90alex]

With VW's involvment in Electrify America, they also need to work out that transition as well.

That’s relatively easy. Just change out the cable on the cabinets. NACS still uses CCS signaling so it’s just a matter of the physical plug being different.

They can just replace them as they get damaged or when they upgrade the cabinets.

 

[davewill]

That’s relatively easy. Just change out the cable on the cabinets. NACS still uses CCS signaling so it’s just a matter of the physical plug being different.

They can just replace them as they get damaged or when they upgrade the cabinets.

Technically it's easy, but you have to make plans and budgets and coordinate the announcements. You can't have VW announcing the change while EA appears to have no plan.

 

[MP3Mike]

You can't have VW announcing the change while EA appears to have no plan.

Of course EA already announced, months ago.

https://media.electrifyamerica.com/en-us/releases/223

 

[KJD]

While I do agree that everyone has said 2025 is the year for changing over to NACS, I just do NOT understand why it is going to take 2 years to change the charge port ? Sure they have to write some software to go along with it so that they can do billing, but so what. They have all done this before with CCS.

Have none of the traditional automakers ever heard of the Osborne effect ?

 

[threeputts]

While I do agree that everyone has said 2025 is the year for changing over to NACS, I just do NOT understand why it is going to take 2 years to change the charge port ? Sure they have to write some software to go along with it so that they can do billing, but so what. They have all done this before with CCS.

Have none of the traditional automakers ever heard of the Osborne effect ?

Supply chains and production lines don't change overnight. '25 models likely need everything set up by mid 2024.

 

[MP3Mike]

While I do agree that everyone has said 2025 is the year for changing over to NACS, I just do NOT understand why it is going to take 2 years to change the charge port ? Sure they have to write some software to go along with it so that they can do billing, but so what. They have all done this before with CCS.

It isn't just changing the charge port. They have to rewire things, add contactors, program everything to prevent the AC connecting to the DC, and vice-versa. Possible redesign their AC charger to allow DC to be hooked to it, like Tesla has done to reduce the number of contactors needed. (In this sense a CCS port is easier to deal with.) Redesign the body to take the new charge port shape, design a new charge port door, etc.

There is also the supply chain issue. Tesla released NACS how long ago, and there still aren't many, if any, cables available for charger manufacturers to order and install on their equipment. (It takes time to design, build the manufacturing capabilities, test, get certification, and start production.

 

[corbin630]

Supply chains and production lines don't change overnight. '25 models likely need everything set up by mid 2024.

Exactly! Car manufacturers don't like mid-year changes, so they wait for a new model year to make the changes. By the time they decided to add NACS in Spring and Summer 2023, they had already ordered parts and designed cars for CCS ports in the 2024 model year. They will begin adding NACS to the 2025 model year which begins shipping in Q4 2024.

I don't think that they are worried about the Osborne effect of people hearing that NACS is coming and waiting, but they absolutely don't want to be shipping some cars to dealers with CCS and some with NACS at the same time. Those two cars on that dealer lot side-by-side can't happen or that CCS car won't sell at full MSRP or the markup that dealers like to add.

 

[MP3Mike]

I don't think that they are worried about the Osborne effect of people hearing that NACS is coming and waiting, but they absolutely don't want to be shipping some cars to dealers with CCS and some with NACS at the same time. Those two cars on that dealer lot side-by-side can't happen or that CCS car won't sell at full MSRP or the markup that dealers like to add.

Well, a lot of them have said that they are delaying their EV plans. Does that mean that the transition to NACS will be delayed as well, or does it just mean that they won't produce many CCS vehicles next year?

 

[corbin630]

Well, a lot of them have said that they are delaying their EV plans. Does that mean that the transition to NACS will be delayed as well, or does it just mean that they won't produce many CCS vehicles next year?

My understanding of the "delaying EV plans" news is that they are not opening up new battery plants as fast and are not launching as many new models, but they are still going to be producing the existing models that they have and will be switching them over to NACS still for the 2025 model year. I haven't seen existing cars get cancelled in the news that I have seen.

 

[threeputts]

12/19/23 VW group (includes Porsche, Audi)