Very interesting wording there by including the "with autopilot"-comment. He is, not surprisingly, not running the public firmware. I'll take this as a positive sign that the future does bring improvements here as soon as they release the autopilot-firmware or a dedicated normal-mode version of the firmware.
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Tracking P85D delivery thread
- Thread starter andrewket
- Start date
Cool. I'm encouraged that Jerome's efficiency is much better on his test car. He also states that efficiency tests are typically done on tires with at least 3K miles on them.
Tires on the P85 are Continental Extreme Contact 245/35/R21 all around. The P85D has Michelin Pilot Sport Radial X 245/35/R21 on the front and 265/35/R21 on the back. Her tires have about 9k miles on them I believe, mine almost 1k.
Edit: I wonder if the rims/tires could be swapped and my control test run again... not sure if the staggered set will fit the P85, though... or vice versa?
Edit: I wonder if the rims/tires could be swapped and my control test run again... not sure if the staggered set will fit the P85, though... or vice versa?
danbur
Member
Another datapoint... My D went production complete on 12/20. I was told yesterday by my DS that my vehicle is "in queue" to ship to Denver and there are quite a few cars ready to ship out. Seems like a larger logistics issue...my car has sat for 7 days awaiting a 2 day lift to Denver.
FWIW, my fiance's P85 lifetime Wh/mi with her 21s is 9% higher than my P85's was with 19s. However... only recently (within the past 2k miles or so) has she finally gotten used to the one-foot driving method and was previously utilizing the friction brakes more than necessary.
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I wouldn't mind finding some more efficient tires for the P85D, honestly.
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I wouldn't mind finding some more efficient tires for the P85D, honestly.
The interesting thing for me right now seems to the the reversal of "electrical fuel" economy, compared with the published EPA numbers.
It seems that highway travel is worse than city driving in terms of energy consumption.
I've only had my car for a couple of days, but during my unscientific test of a 28 mile trip I used up 38 miles rated range, 428 Wh/mi on the highway (21" summer tires, 37-38 degrees, dry roads, some minor traffic, slightly hilly terrain, sport/range mode, v2.0.81, cruise control set at 74 mph) and only 398 Wh/mi for the similar return trip using backroads (obviously different conditions).
It is my understanding that the weight disadvantage compared with the P85 should be very apparent during city driving, but it should result in a negligible difference at highway speeds.
I am hopeful that this can be fixed with a software update that will turn off the rear motor during highway cruising.
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Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
Would you be able / willing to ask Jerome explicitly if he is running software that is known to improve the range over the software we are running? I'm not suggesting that you ask for specific information about when we may get that software, but rather only if that software does exist, since he seems to have brought it up (by making reference to the autopilot features.)
EastCoastP85D
Member
I just got a call from my DS for delivery tomorrow. I'm guessing your car is here as well.
For the efficiency issue, consider wheel alignment also. A higher toe-in of the rear could lead to higher consumption of "fuel" while helping straight line acceleration tracking. It might eventually show up with uneven tire wear. Something to have your service center check. Last year, folks like lolachampcar pointed out this type of thing and a fix for camber and possibly toe-in. Less toe in can make straight line acceleration less planted, though, but more efficient cruising.
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3s-a-charm
Active Member
What would be great is if Telsa came with a simple wheel swap hub that allowed us to use high performance tires for daily use them quickly and easily swap to a highway set that provided tremendous range (perhaps with aero rims) - that would be cool.
Johann Koeber
Happy Owner
No.
My interpretation:
Any cars starting production now
will not be delivered in Q4.
So it makes sense to produce the cars for Europe and Asia going forward. This allows these cars to be shipped before end of Q1.
After fulfilling the quotas for Europe and possibly Asia, production for the closer by markets (i.e. north America) will resume.
This strategy optimizes the quarterly sales.
I traded an S85 w/21" 2013 I had for 14 months on Tuesday and picked up my P85D. I have been holding off on posting about the energy performance, but my non-scientific feeling is it is very bad. compared to the S85. I know it is not fully comparable, but, for what it is worth, my lifetime avg was 352Wh/m on the S85 and I do about 40 miles of going down in the morning and up in the evening about 2000ft elevation, and that was my average, which I thought was pretty high, but since I go up/down, I expected it.
The P85D so far has no where near the 300's it's closer to 500Wh/m then 350.
This is the shot before I traded the S85
I know I don't have enough miles, but I did a few of the up/down where usually it would not get close to 400Wh/m
This was a shorter up/down run from home to close to work, but a little shorter... 523Wh/m NEVER even came close on the S85
This was a linger run from Los Gatos to Walnut Creek (in the bay area)
I started a 100% charge at 250 (which immediately dropped to 249 when I looked at the car in the morning)
and ended up with 162 for a 65 mile drive. Granted, this was up I680 which was going up-hill for a while, and again a short sample
But this is not so good compared to what I would have been used to in the S85. So 88 miles of range for 65 miles, I believe that's 35%
Other factors: Temp outside was 39F inside was set to 72F speed was around 70-75 freeway.
So I know these numbers are open to a lot of subjectivity and are anecdotal, but I feel like I am fitting into the general feeling that something is more then a little wrong with the range/efficiency of the P85D
Hi, My P85D (Vin 64008) started its journey from CA, 3 days ago and will be reaching Nashville, TN, on Dec 29. Will be ready for pickup Dec 30. Visited the Sales and Service center at Nasville yesterday. They did have 3 P85Ds all with next gen seats. Mine will have performance Napa seats and will be upgraded later to Nextgen seats. My DS has been updating me regularly and am told that the Demo models at most sales centers do have next gen seats!. Cant wait!. I was surprised at the multiple charging options available at Nashville. Several chain hotels, Vanderbilt campus and restaurants including Cracker Barrel have charging options! Since Nissan has it's headquarters here, awareness of EV around here is more than I had imagined.Still a long way to go.
Well .... its coming up on decision time for me. I am scheduled for delivery on Tuesday the 30th and having a hard time with the reported range issues. Do I accept delivery
or cancel/reorder for a later delivery ?
While some may argue my expectations are out of line, or that other high end car experiences are no better, for me, the last few months have been quite a roller coaster.
In September I ordered a P85 (not plus) with 19" wheels and steel springs ... and only a few wishes ... AWD and better seats prominent among them. Then came the P85D
announcement!! This seemed perfect. AWD for better handling, Insane acceleration for the occasional hole-shot, better seats, and equal (or better!) range when driving mildly.
(FWIW, the Autopilot stuff isn't of much interest to me). Dug a little deeper into the wallet and changed my order based on the early promises for the P85D.
Two months later, the car is apparently on its way and my hopes are only partially fulfilled vis-a-vis the P85 expectations I had developed. The handling and acceleration
improvements seem to be fully delivered based on the reports to date. But I had to pay for air suspension (which I don't value), won't get the (reportedly superb) seats for
some time, and there is now growing (if imperfectly controlled) data showing something like 25% *higher* electrical consumption in real world highway driving. That said,
I *do* want a P85D (at least the one I understood I was promised).
If I had some assurance there would be progress by a date certain on the range issue (or even a vague promise like for the seats) I would take delivery without hesitation.
But as of now, I'm wondering if waiting till March (or April or May) to see the range issue definitively addressed, steel springs become available, and next generation seats
available at delivery, might make sense. e.g. what if range is NOT fixable with s/w ... and a h/w change is required (inverter, motor, control electronics etc). In addition to
a new car a with last calendar year VIN, intrepid P85D early adopters might get stuck with a prototype for the long term ... impacting resale value if there is a later fix that
is not retrofitted.
Sorry for the inconclusive post, I really am on the fence here. I've been reading this thread since the beginning, so I'm familiar with the range of opinions, from
"don't worry - they'll make it right", to "you have unreasonable expectations", to "buyer beware - your getting what you get, no reason to expect more".
So to add to my knowledge base, can anyone provide facts that would suggest/support the idea that a s/w solution to the range issue is a reasonable expectation ?
Something more than Elon said so (and then retracted/deleted it) or speculations on the root cause and its "likely" resolution? Is there any precedent for meaningful
performance improvements via s/w (not just new UI /entertainment/comfort features) from Tesla with the roadster or earlier S ?
or cancel/reorder for a later delivery ?
While some may argue my expectations are out of line, or that other high end car experiences are no better, for me, the last few months have been quite a roller coaster.
In September I ordered a P85 (not plus) with 19" wheels and steel springs ... and only a few wishes ... AWD and better seats prominent among them. Then came the P85D
announcement!! This seemed perfect. AWD for better handling, Insane acceleration for the occasional hole-shot, better seats, and equal (or better!) range when driving mildly.
(FWIW, the Autopilot stuff isn't of much interest to me). Dug a little deeper into the wallet and changed my order based on the early promises for the P85D.
Two months later, the car is apparently on its way and my hopes are only partially fulfilled vis-a-vis the P85 expectations I had developed. The handling and acceleration
improvements seem to be fully delivered based on the reports to date. But I had to pay for air suspension (which I don't value), won't get the (reportedly superb) seats for
some time, and there is now growing (if imperfectly controlled) data showing something like 25% *higher* electrical consumption in real world highway driving. That said,
I *do* want a P85D (at least the one I understood I was promised).
If I had some assurance there would be progress by a date certain on the range issue (or even a vague promise like for the seats) I would take delivery without hesitation.
But as of now, I'm wondering if waiting till March (or April or May) to see the range issue definitively addressed, steel springs become available, and next generation seats
available at delivery, might make sense. e.g. what if range is NOT fixable with s/w ... and a h/w change is required (inverter, motor, control electronics etc). In addition to
a new car a with last calendar year VIN, intrepid P85D early adopters might get stuck with a prototype for the long term ... impacting resale value if there is a later fix that
is not retrofitted.
Sorry for the inconclusive post, I really am on the fence here. I've been reading this thread since the beginning, so I'm familiar with the range of opinions, from
"don't worry - they'll make it right", to "you have unreasonable expectations", to "buyer beware - your getting what you get, no reason to expect more".
So to add to my knowledge base, can anyone provide facts that would suggest/support the idea that a s/w solution to the range issue is a reasonable expectation ?
Something more than Elon said so (and then retracted/deleted it) or speculations on the root cause and its "likely" resolution? Is there any precedent for meaningful
performance improvements via s/w (not just new UI /entertainment/comfort features) from Tesla with the roadster or earlier S ?
huntjo
Member
So far nobody has actually presented a comparison of the P 85 and P85 D on the same wheel and tire set up. Perhaps either a P85+ and a D can be compared or possibly someone has an extra set of non staggered wheels to slap on their D to get an apples to apples data collection. Sounds like there is probably some firmware change coming, but I think it's very misleading that people are posting these pseudo scientific side by side testings without the same wheels and tires.
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