Trip near Yosemite... Manteca supercharger enough?

[gordo]

I've got a trip planned from the Bay Area to a camp near Yosemite (technically Groveland, CA). I will be there for 4 days total and do not believe I will have any access to a plug, though I will contact them and see if there's any chance that perhaps a 120v might be available.

Bay Area to Manteca seems like a no-brainer in either direction. Starting out from Manteca though, according to rather conservative settings on EVTripPlanner (1.15x speed multiplier, 1000 lb payload, 28F temp differential), it looks like the 181 mile round trip to and from Groveland, CA in my P85D will require 56kWh (@ 307Wh/mile), so a full charge at Manteca should theoretically give me plenty of buffer: EV Trip Planner. Figuring the car will lose another ~4kW sitting there for 4 days, I should be around 60kW all told, which is well under the 76 kW I'll get with a full charge.

Now, the weird thing is my average Wh/mile commuting on 101 with a much smaller payload, much less AC usage and little elevation change is closer to 340. The camping trip has an elevation increase (and then decrease) of ~4000 ft. So, one would *think* that 307Wh/mile is just not realistic, unless my average speed is really much lower than I expect it to be.

So, I went crazy and chose super conservative settings (1.25x speed multiplier, 2000 lb payload, 40F temp differential) to get my Wh/mile up to 342. Still, it says I would use no more than 62kWh roundtrip to and from the Supercharger.

Question is, should I trust EVTripPlanner? Would you feel comfortable doing this trip in a P85D with your family of 4, assuming you have no plug options at the destination and probably no patience to sit there slow charging at a PlugShare stop on the way back?

 

[dadaleus]

You'd probably be fine. But I never like to push it. Why not plan to have lunch here at some point during your stay? Then you don't have to worry at all.
Groveland Hotel | Groveland, CA | Electric Car Charging Station | PlugShare

Regardless, make sure to set your car display to save energy.

 

[sorka]

I've got a trip planned from the Bay Area to a camp near Yosemite (technically Groveland, CA). I will be there for 4 days total and do not believe I will have any access to a plug, though I will contact them and see if there's any chance that perhaps a 120v might be available.

Bay Area to Manteca seems like a no-brainer in either direction. Starting out from Manteca though, according to rather conservative settings on EVTripPlanner (1.15x speed multiplier, 1000 lb payload, 28F temp differential), it looks like the 181 mile round trip to and from Groveland, CA in my P85D will require 56kWh (@ 307Wh/mile), so a full charge at Manteca should theoretically give me plenty of buffer: EV Trip Planner. Figuring the car will lose another ~4kW sitting there for 4 days, I should be around 60kW all told, which is well under the 76 kW I'll get with a full charge.

Now, the weird thing is my average Wh/mile commuting on 101 with a much smaller payload, much less AC usage and little elevation change is closer to 340. The camping trip has an elevation increase (and then decrease) of ~4000 ft. So, one would *think* that 307Wh/mile is just not realistic, unless my average speed is really much lower than I expect it to be.

So, I went crazy and chose super conservative settings (1.25x speed multiplier, 2000 lb payload, 40F temp differential) to get my Wh/mile up to 342. Still, it says I would use no more than 62kWh roundtrip to and from the Supercharger.

Question is, should I trust EVTripPlanner? Would you feel comfortable doing this trip in a P85D with your family of 4, assuming you have no plug options at the destination and probably no patience to sit there slow charging at a PlugShare stop on the way back?

EV trip planner has been very accurate for me. Where is the 181 miles coming from? I see from Manteca to Groveland and then back to Manteca is 127 miles. With a speed multiplier of 1.1 I get 279 wh / mile for total of 35.5KW and 118 RM. Using 72F inside and 80F outside and 600 lb payload.

You shouldn't have any issue even if you only charge to 80%. However, you're likely to lose 20 miles of range sitting for 4 days (vampire drain) but even at 80% you'd still have plenty of buffer. Maybe charge to 90% for security in Manteca.

 

[gordo]

EV trip planner has been very accurate for me. Where is the 181 miles coming from? I see from Manteca to Groveland and then back to Manteca is 127 miles.

See the EVTripPlanner link in the first post. It's 181 miles round trip because it's not the town of Groveland, but actually part of the rural area located 30 miles towards Yosemite. Not confident an 80% charge will quite cut it, but perhaps 90%?

 

[sorka]

Sorry. Missed that. I'd charge to 100% so you still have a 50 mile buffer after losing 20 miles to vampire drain.

You're 35 miles from the Ahwahnee which also has an 80 amp HPWC. You dont't need to be a hotel guest to use it. If you decide to take any day trips in that direction, it might be a worth while stop.

 

[!S4]

Sorry. Missed that. I'd charge to 100% so you still have a 50 mile buffer after losing 20 miles to vampire drain.

You're 35 miles from the Ahwahnee which also has an 80 amp HPWC. You dont't need to be a hotel guest to use it. If you decide to take any day trips in that direction, it might be a worth while stop.

I would also charge to 100%. I also think that 20 miles to vampire drain over 4 days is a bit high, but better to plan for the worst case scenario and have no worries.

 

[gordo]

Yeah, I'll go close to 100% if possible. Would prefer not to detour for chargers as the wife will almost certainly give me grief for not taking the SUV unless it's a really smooth, uneventful trip. ;-)

The thing that still has me somewhat skeptical though is that a 180 mile trip from Manteca down the very flat I-5 (to say Lost Hills, CA) shows closer to 440Wh/mile and 84kWh total with little elevation change, whereas my 181 mile roundtrip includes significant uphill and downhill portions and still comes out to a measly 307Wh/mile. It's not possible that you actually have a net gain of efficiency going up and then down 4000 ft versus travelling the same distance on flat land.

The difference seems to come down to EVTripPlanner assuming I will spend the bulk of the Manteca-Groveland legs going between 52-63mph, whereas the I-5 portion of a Manteca-Lost Hills trip maxes out at 85mph for 2 hours straight. So, I guess at least in my case, the significantly lower overall speed of windy mountain roads trumps the efficiency lost due to elevation change.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Take your Wife to lunch at the Ahwahnee hotel. She will absolutely love the place, and their grand restaurant. Walk around the place and take in the spectacular views while your Tesla slurps up some juice.

After 4 days of camping, you both might appreciate some luxury.

 

[sorka]

Yeah, I'll go close to 100% if possible. Would prefer not to detour for chargers as the wife will almost certainly give me grief for not taking the SUV unless it's a really smooth, uneventful trip. ;-)

The thing that still has me somewhat skeptical though is that a 180 mile trip from Manteca down the very flat I-5 (to say Lost Hills, CA) shows closer to 440Wh/mile and 84kWh total with little elevation change, whereas my 181 mile roundtrip includes significant uphill and downhill portions and still comes out to a measly 307Wh/mile. It's not possible that you actually have a net gain of efficiency going up and then down 4000 ft versus travelling the same distance on flat land.

The difference seems to come down to EVTripPlanner assuming I will spend the bulk of the Manteca-Groveland legs going between 52-63mph, whereas the I-5 portion of a Manteca-Lost Hills trip maxes out at 85mph for 2 hours straight. So, I guess at least in my case, the significantly lower overall speed of windy mountain roads trumps the efficiency lost due to elevation change.

I was skeptical too before I did our first drive to Yosemite valley from Merced. EVTP had me at 268 wh / mile predicted and it ended up being more like 250 wh / mile for the entire trip. It may have been a hill ascent / decent efficiency thing or slower average speed limits than the highway. I've noticed that when I up Altamont pass on 580 at 70 MPH and then coast down at 70 MPH on the backside, my overall average drops way down compared to the same distance on flat level road. Occurs in both directions on that pass.

 

[brucet999]

I'm glad to see this post and and Sorka's comments about the Awahnee charger being available to non-guests. I plan to order a 70 soon and was trying to figure out if I could manage a trip to Yosemite, 151 miles from nearest SC at Harris Ranch and 6000 feet of climbing = 60 miles of range.

 

[sorka]

Take your Wife to lunch at the Ahwahnee hotel. She will absolutely love the place, and their grand restaurant. Walk around the place and take in the spectacular views while your Tesla slurps up some juice.

After 4 days of camping, you both might appreciate some luxury.

Sunday brunch is the best there if you happen to be there that day of the week.

 

[ecarfan]

Gordo, I have done multiple trips from near SF to locations close to Yosemite, both before and after the Manteca SC went live. I always find a destination where I can L2 charge at, and it's an easy trip. However, your situation is different of course. You say you are going to "camp" (4 days without charging) somewhere near Groveland. As others have mentioned, charge for a few hours at the Groveland Hotel. They will charge you $5 or so.
The problem with planning a trip where you rely on the Groveland or Ahwahnee chargers is they could be in use. Same issue with the L2 charger in Yosemite Village.
Tell me exactly where you are camping and maybe I can provide more specific advice.

 

[gordo]

Tell me exactly where you are camping and maybe I can provide more specific advice.

I'll be at a place called Camp Tawonga. See the EVTRipPlanner link in the first post for its location. I appreciate those suggesting Ahwahnee and Groveland hotels, but neither is really an ideal option for this particular trip. If it was just the wife and I (as it was on our first trip to Yosemite 5 years ago), we'd take our time and enjoy the scenery and let the situation dictate our next move, but I'll have a 4 year old and 18 month old in the car and the wife will not put up with much in the way of detours and long waits after 4 days of camp. Ahwanee would be a great stop for brunch on the way out, but if the charger is not open when I get there, I'll have wasted enough energy that a straight shot to Manteca may no longer be an option and I'll probably be stuck with two cranky kids for an unknown number of hours while we wait for the charger to open up.

Obviously, alternate charging locations are options if we get in a pinch, but on this trip, I really need to plan ahead and try to make it with one stop at Manteca in each direction. If that's truly not a good percentage bet to make, then I'll take our SUV.

 

[sorka]

I'll be at a place called Camp Tawonga. See the EVTRipPlanner link in the first post for its location. I appreciate those suggesting Ahwahnee and Groveland hotels, but neither is really an ideal option for this particular trip. If it was just the wife and I (as it was on our first trip to Yosemite 5 years ago), we'd take our time and enjoy the scenery and let the situation dictate our next move, but I'll have a 4 year old and 18 month old in the car and the wife will not put up with much in the way of detours and long waits after 4 days of camp. Ahwanee would be a great stop for brunch on the way out, but if the charger is not open when I get there, I'll have wasted enough energy that a straight shot to Manteca may no longer be an option and I'll probably be stuck with two cranky kids for an unknown number of hours while we wait for the charger to open up.

Obviously, alternate charging locations are options if we get in a pinch, but on this trip, I really need to plan ahead and try to make it with one stop at Manteca in each direction. If that's truly not a good percentage bet to make, then I'll take our SUV.

If you have an SUV, there's no reason why you can't occasionally use it for a trip. If it becomes too much to think about or the adventure aspect of finding charging, which I personally enjoy, is too much, there's no shame in taking the SUV this once or when it really would just make life easier.

 

[wws]

Evtripplanner says the round trip from Manteca to Tawonga and back is 181 miles, but only 147 RM/44 kwh in a P85D w/21" wheels. So should be an easy trip. Remember the road speeds are slow and the return trip is down hill.

(FWIW, my daughter spent a week at Tawonga many years ago. It was quite an adventure.)

 

[MarcG]

Gordo, I have done multiple trips from near SF to locations close to Yosemite, both before and after the Manteca SC went live. I always find a destination where I can L2 charge at, and it's an easy trip. However, your situation is different of course. You say you are going to "camp" (4 days without charging) somewhere near Groveland. As others have mentioned, charge for a few hours at the Groveland Hotel. They will charge you $5 or so.
The problem with planning a trip where you rely on the Groveland or Ahwahnee chargers is they could be in use. Same issue with the L2 charger in Yosemite Village.
Tell me exactly where you are camping and maybe I can provide more specific advice.

+1

I did a trip to Yosemite with 4 other people in the car this past April and it went without a hitch. Charged at Manteca SC on the way there and back. Also charged at 3 HPWCs:

Once at the Awhanee: self-park, HPWC open next to Clipper Creek 40A EVSE, but beware only 1 EV-only spot which is often ICE'd
Once at the Evergreen lodge: self-park, HPWC behind a lock box - just ask the front desk for the key and have a bite/drink at the restaurant while you charge
Once at the Groveland hotel: self-park, $5 at front desk, HPWC open on hotel side with 1 EV-only spot (was ICE'd by a utility truck but they move)

 

[wws]

Once at the Evergreen lodge: self-park, HPWC behind a lock box - just ask the front desk for the key and have a bite/drink at the restaurant while you charge...

Looks like the Evergreen Lodge is only a little over a mile from Tawonga.

 

[sub]

I'm in Sonora but don't have a Tesla/charger yet otherwise I would offer it up to any other Tesla owner in need. I'm stuck driving around an i3 on a lease until model 3 comes out but i'm not guaranteeing I won't cave before then and pick up an S/X. The i3 has been fine on a trickle charger, rarely drive it more than 20 miles a day.

 

[gordo]

Looks like the Evergreen Lodge is only a little over a mile from Tawonga.

Perfect. That's really close. Looks like 2-ish miles... If necessary, I can take a quick 20 minute run to the charger after the kids go to sleep one night and not have to worry about range. In fact, I could probably spend a couple hours charging up to ~90% one night and skip Manteca on the way back, given the 4100 ft drop and only 45kWh required to get back home to the Bay...

 

[gordo]

So, just got back and it turns out I didn't need to Supercharge at all. On the way there, wife called ahead 20 minutes before we passed Manteca and they said I could plug into their 110v for free. I figured between that and the Evergreen Lodge, I should have two options to get home. I stopped by Ace Hardware on the way, got a 12 AWG extension cord and ended up using it to sip 12 amps all weekend (physically checked charger couple times as no cell phone signal where we were). Set charge target to 89%, wasted 3% driving around to pick up luggage and running AC, then still managed to get home with 29% remaining @ 254wh/mi average, even driving some 75-80mph around 205 & 580. Easy-peasy.