TSLA Investor Discussions

[bonnie]

Generally I agree but...

... this would do a lot of good for the Tesla brand, regardless of the wiggles of the market.

make no mistake, the NYT owes an apology, Broder's career as a journalist is over. My only point is that I don't think the market was really impacted by one negative article, so I don't think the retraction will do much either. And it certainly didn't cause me to lose faith in the company. It was that comment that got my response.

 

[SteveG3]

I don't mean to squash anyone's mood, but am I just cynical, or does anyone else think there is a fairly substantial chance that the New York Times, will frame this as a he said she said, as in "you claim our article is a fake, we claim your numbers and charts are a fake."

while I personally feel about 97% confident this is real data, it is not like an airplane's black box which I am sure regulators have a hand in validating the veracity of. it is numbers and diagrams presented by Tesla.

 

[Norbert]

Highly unlikely, FLOW means single piece. It is one of the base principles of the TP system to ensure that defects are not passed down the line and there is no waste of excess inventory and idle resources. The whole assembly line works off the same drumbeat.

And what Zzzz said :smile:

Why would that keep Tesla from having 2 stations working at 8 min each, in parallel, to work with a line that otherwise works on 4 min? Or 2 stations working at 16 min with a line that works at 8 min?

If it is difficult to achieve the usual line frequency at one stage, then it is better to have two of them work in parallel, than to slow the whole line down.

Aside from nomenclature, Zzzz's post appears to agree with that.

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I don't mean to squash anyone's mood, but am I just cynical, or does anyone else think there is a fairly substantial chance that the New York Times, will frame this as a he said she said, as in "you claim our article is a fake, we claim your numbers and charts are a fake."

while I personally feel about 97% confident this is real data, it is not like an airplane's black box which I am sure regulators have a hand in validating the veracity of. it is numbers and diagrams presented by Tesla.

I don't think they will have the option to claim that Tesla's logs are false.

 

[JRP3]

I don't think they will have the option to claim that Tesla's logs are false.

Why not?

 

[Norbert]

Why not?

Because it is Tesla.

And the data is reproducible. (With the same 'input' you can generate the same 'output'.) If needed.

 

[SteveG3]

There is a Wired article about Musk's blog. In the comments section, the ability to verify the logs did come up.

I have no background in this, and let me be clear, coming off an internet discussion on an article I have no way of knowing if this is a reasonable and accurate response, but David Brantley wrote,

"No software dev or engineer worth his salt would ever create a logging program without some sort of verification method to ensure the logs are real and from the car."

I posted this comment as someone here on TMC may have the technical knowledge to share whether it has validity, and elaborate for us (no offense Mr Brantley if you read this)

Why not?

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

Because it is Tesla.

And the data is reproducible. (With the same 'input' you can generate the same 'output'.) If needed.

and they can use tesla logs for legal reasons. It says in the contract. I'd assume they are 'black box' style logs that should stand up in court.

 

[Citizen-T]

As a Software Engineer, I'd say that because the logs are intended for this kind of purpose, I'm sure that the logging system is designed in such a way that it can be verified. I'm sure that was one of the requirements, so I'm sure that the logs will stand up. Not all logging necessary would, but I'm sure that Tesla's legal department had a hand in setting the requirements for this system if they intended to potentially use them in court.

 

[SteveG3]

that's encouraging Citizen-T. It may or may not have been part of the original intent of the logging system, but it is apparent since the Top Gear incident that did go to court that the logs are seen as tools in their strategy to protect the company reputation.

I just hope the New York Times pursues the truth on this. It's human to be ticked at the writer, but, wow, if the truth is what seems so apparent to us, I see such a bigger more gratifying prize in the Times flat out acknowledging it and making peace with Tesla.

As a Software Engineer, I'd say that because the logs are intended for this kind of purpose, I'm sure that the logging system is designed in such a way that it can be verified. I'm sure that was one of the requirements, so I'm sure that the logs will stand up. Not all logging necessary would, but I'm sure that Tesla's legal department had a hand in setting the requirements for this system if they intended to potentially use them in court.

 

[JRod0802]

go to Tesla website, Elon has not held back!

For historical reference, here's the article that we're talking about:
A Most Peculiar Test Drive | Blog | Tesla Motors

This article is being discussed in more detail here:
Tesla Blog: A Most Peculiar Test Drive

Other related threads:
NYT article: Stalled on the EV Highway
John Broder' response: The Charges Are Flying Over a Test of Tesla’s Charging Network
Tesla and the NYT

 

[carrerascott]

If nothing else, this debacle has put Tesla and therefore TSLA in the news, and in front of people's eyes. If next Wednesday's report is very good, I'd say it will react better and faster than if none of this had happened. Awareness of the company, people "rooting" for Tesla vs whoever is behind this, etc.

Of course if the report is underwhelming, we could see the opposite effect.

 

[avatar]

This is absolutely outrageous. The NYT has lost their credibility because of stuff like this. We should ask for Broder's resignation. I say we take our frustrations to twitter - hashtag #nytfirebrodernow

 

[K Hall]

If nothing else, this debacle has put Tesla and therefore TSLA in the news, and in front of people's eyes. If next Wednesday's report is very good, I'd say it will react better and faster than if none of this had happened. Awareness of the company, people "rooting" for Tesla vs whoever is behind this, etc.

Of course if the report is underwhelming, we could see the opposite effect.

Your exactly right Scott. This publicity is priceless.

 

[Mycroft]

Your exactly right Scott. This publicity is priceless.

Sure. Look at all the "priceless" publicity the GM Volt received. I bet people still ask Volt owners if they aren't afraid it'll catch fire on them.

 

[avatar]

Sure. Look at all the "priceless" publicity the GM Volt received. I bet people still ask Volt owners if they aren't afraid it'll catch fire on them.

Agree. This is in no way a "good" thing. Elon has managed this well and aggressively. its the best that can be done. He should be asking for Broder's head at this point.

 

[carrerascott]

Difference is if you google Tesla Model S after learning about it, you learn:

2013 Motor Trend Car of the Year
2013 Automobile Car of the Year
2013 Yahoo! Motors Car of the Year

"All news is good news" when you are a relatively unknown company. And this wasn't news about it catching fire. This is news about an apparently crooked "reporter" getting caught.

Sure. Look at all the "priceless" publicity the GM Volt received. I bet people still ask Volt owners if they aren't afraid it'll catch fire on them.

 

[K Hall]

Agree. This is in no way a "good" thing. Elon has managed this well and aggressively. its the best that can be done. He should be asking for Broder's head at this point.

Scott is correct. The facts of the story actually prove this car has much more capibility than rated. The Volt never answered the issues of its bad press. Tesla has and expanded its brand awareness to a much larger ACV.

 

[avatar]

Scott is correct. The facts of the story actually prove this car has much more capibility than rated. The Volt never answered the issues of its bad press. Tesla has and expanded its brand awareness to a much larger ACV.

I really hope you are right. I really do. I am rooting for this company to win. We need capitalists like Elon. More of them. If he wins, he will inspire a generation of winners like him to solve hard problems that need solving through entrepreneurship. Its so sad to see so many of our smartest most talented human beings focusing on social networks and ads.

 

[EVNow]

Conflicting Assertions Over an Electric Car Test Drive The Public Editor - NYTimes.com

NYT's public editor MARGARET SULLIVAN's first post on this issue. Is this another Jason Blair type scam in the making ?

Let me get this out of the way up front: This blog post will not be the definitive word on the contentious subject of a Times article in Sunday’s Automobiles section. It’s just an early effort to put some claims and counterclaims out there, while I continue to look into it.
...
Mr. Musk has not returned my call, made at about noon on Thursday. I eventually intend to ask him to fully release and “open source” the driving logs, along with whatever other data might be necessary for better understanding and interpretation.

 

[carrerascott]

She links to a discussion about it on Reddit, of all places?

Conflicting Assertions Over an Electric Car Test Drive The Public Editor - NYTimes.com

NYT's public editor MARGARET SULLIVAN's first post on this issue. Is this another Jason Blair type scam in the making ?