Yes, I was upset the last time, but now I wonder if they simply don't want to bother doing the extra paperwork for us for free. Their margins probably take a big hit if they do. Or they would charge so much it is't worth it to me. As non-USians we are not registered as stock holders directly with TSLA, I guess.
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Ulmo
Active Member
Elon laid out the purpose of Tesla. Most people can understand it very well. Pretty much any honest effective executive capable human could be CEO or executive, and execute that vision. Even more people could fail to do that vision somehow (e.g., a Toyota driving Tim Cook). Finding an honest effective executive capable person is easier than CEOs like to pretend, but not super easy.
Elon is a safe bet. But he’s also super busy, constantly fighting being worn out, and aging quickly. Also, he has blinders on to who knows what; maybe he understands the threat from Chinese and Russian operatives (“spies”), maybe he doesn’t. Who knows what slip up he makes at Tesla while he’s busy making rockets (making rockets —- ACTUALLY FLYING ROCKETS!!!). I know they’re great at batteries and battery packs, and anyway they have the Gigafactory, so at least there’s that.
Speaking of which, he knows even if he flubs it, he can go fix it. That’s a plus. Some CEOs are so brain dead they wouldn’t even be able to fix anything. Elon waltzes in with a whole multi division team of experts to fix little errors like that. BECAUSE HE KNOWS IT MATTERS. Tim Cook would have never made that assembly line error, and wouldn’t be able to program his way out of a basket if someone put him in one. I bet Tim’s the type of person who stays on the road if the road’s blocked but driving over a curb could get you past a blockage.
Elon is trustworthy to his vision. (I’m almost sure; am I doubting that surety below?) That’s worth infinite capable executives who know how but don’t stick to the vision; actually not selling out to evil is as important as knowhow. Having Elon there as a simple veto helps solve that. Is it worth making him mega billionaire if he twenty times the stock price? I don’t think so. Sticking to his vision is WAY more important. If Elon also makes twenty times the stock price, is it ok if he gets an outsized reward? He’ll already have his own shares be worth more. But at least his proportion of the company will go up, so therefore his veto power, so that’s good (why not just grant him voting-only shares now?), but why wouldn’t it go up if he stayed true to his vision and money was made in modest amounts? What might he be willing to compromise in order to get more money? When I accuse him of asking for a “windfall catchment” for high share prices, it’s in the irrational hope that he wouldn’t sell out to evil in order to do so; otherwise, selling out in order to win the rewards isn’t a windfall, it was the plan. The only way it’s not selling out to evil and it’s the plan is if they already have plans to do things that TWENTY times their share price, TODAY. Elon’s great, but I honestly haven’t seen anything indicating he’s THAT great, nor have I seen anything saying he’s not (that’s actually a superb compliment coming from me). I’ve thought of ways to make a company such as Tesla go sky high, but they’re tricky and fault prone, and most of all, they’re not dependent on the finances going under one name or another (in fact, it would all get reinvested long term anyway). It’s hard for me to believe they think Elon knows a surer bet on sky high prices that excludes his success if he succeeds at most his goals but just fails to gain some financial borderline with one name on it instead of another. That’s why I’m having trouble deciding my vote. (Like many, my shares don’t amount to much, but it’s discussions of how to vote that make the vote.)
My main point is: why doesn’t he get the voting power now rather than only the voting power and money later if the share price goes super high? That’s fishy.
Elon is a safe bet. But he’s also super busy, constantly fighting being worn out, and aging quickly. Also, he has blinders on to who knows what; maybe he understands the threat from Chinese and Russian operatives (“spies”), maybe he doesn’t. Who knows what slip up he makes at Tesla while he’s busy making rockets (making rockets —- ACTUALLY FLYING ROCKETS!!!). I know they’re great at batteries and battery packs, and anyway they have the Gigafactory, so at least there’s that.
Speaking of which, he knows even if he flubs it, he can go fix it. That’s a plus. Some CEOs are so brain dead they wouldn’t even be able to fix anything. Elon waltzes in with a whole multi division team of experts to fix little errors like that. BECAUSE HE KNOWS IT MATTERS. Tim Cook would have never made that assembly line error, and wouldn’t be able to program his way out of a basket if someone put him in one. I bet Tim’s the type of person who stays on the road if the road’s blocked but driving over a curb could get you past a blockage.
Elon is trustworthy to his vision. (I’m almost sure; am I doubting that surety below?) That’s worth infinite capable executives who know how but don’t stick to the vision; actually not selling out to evil is as important as knowhow. Having Elon there as a simple veto helps solve that. Is it worth making him mega billionaire if he twenty times the stock price? I don’t think so. Sticking to his vision is WAY more important. If Elon also makes twenty times the stock price, is it ok if he gets an outsized reward? He’ll already have his own shares be worth more. But at least his proportion of the company will go up, so therefore his veto power, so that’s good (why not just grant him voting-only shares now?), but why wouldn’t it go up if he stayed true to his vision and money was made in modest amounts? What might he be willing to compromise in order to get more money? When I accuse him of asking for a “windfall catchment” for high share prices, it’s in the irrational hope that he wouldn’t sell out to evil in order to do so; otherwise, selling out in order to win the rewards isn’t a windfall, it was the plan. The only way it’s not selling out to evil and it’s the plan is if they already have plans to do things that TWENTY times their share price, TODAY. Elon’s great, but I honestly haven’t seen anything indicating he’s THAT great, nor have I seen anything saying he’s not (that’s actually a superb compliment coming from me). I’ve thought of ways to make a company such as Tesla go sky high, but they’re tricky and fault prone, and most of all, they’re not dependent on the finances going under one name or another (in fact, it would all get reinvested long term anyway). It’s hard for me to believe they think Elon knows a surer bet on sky high prices that excludes his success if he succeeds at most his goals but just fails to gain some financial borderline with one name on it instead of another. That’s why I’m having trouble deciding my vote. (Like many, my shares don’t amount to much, but it’s discussions of how to vote that make the vote.)
My main point is: why doesn’t he get the voting power now rather than only the voting power and money later if the share price goes super high? That’s fishy.
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In my view, all CEOs are overly compensated.
EM leaving is what shorts like Chanos want. I personally have no issue with the compensation plan. It is what the board has recommended .. and I voted "FOR"
Musk is much more than a CEO, most of all, he's Tesla's talisman and you cannot buy these at any cost...
HG Wells
Martian Embassy
You're right, you can't buy a talisman at any price. But let me show you a few talismans. Here in my briefcase I have several.
Take a look at the one on the top left. It looks like an ordinary rock but it's not. You can use it to determine the local constant for gravity. Just climb a ladder and drop it. By determining the amount of time it takes to hit the ground you can determine what planet your on.
The next one over is from a tree in Singapore. During World War II six British officers used this twig to find freshwater. It's one of the most valuable talismans I have.
I have many more talismans of all different shapes and sizes. They are not for sale under any circumstance. But if you happen to have a model three I'll trade one for the car, or I'll trade two for a model S.
bdy0627
Active Member
That's weird. Very straight-forward stock movement today. Almost like shorts came on near close yesterday anticipating a MMD that they didn't get, so now they are covering. I guess it was a failed MMD.
After many disappointments i am more conservative
though still bullish.
If and When the facts change, them My views will change
Guess estimates
1 qtr 1000/ week = 12,000 total
2 qtr 2000/ week = 24,000 total
3 qtr 3000/ week = 36,000 total
4 qtr 4000/ week = 48,000 total
Total model 3 2018 production 120,000 units
At $55,000 per car = $6.6 bln in revenues
RationalOptimist
Member
Wow.
I guess you must have been distracted by some of Elon's quirks to miss the main story.
There is probably no one on the planet with his overall skill set. He's able to imagine massively complex systems 3-5+ years out and miraculously will them into being. Those systems contain
- beautifully designed products
- imaginative leverage of multiple fundamental sciences
- an understanding of the multiple pieces necessary for the core products to be adopted (think supercharger networks, giga-factories)
- a deep sense of the economics necessary to build such systems cost-effectively
- and much, much more
Most of all he understands technological possibility at a level beyond anyone else.
And then he has the determination and the ingenuity to persuade others to make those systems actually happen (or invest to ensure they can).
I suspect one reason he's able to do that is because he genuinely believes it can be done faster than it actually can. And that sometimes gets him into trouble. But, dude, sometimes you have to pull the camera back and stand in awe at the way that he has personally transformed the future prospects of multiple industries -- not to mention the planet.
Well I'd like to congratulate everyone brave enough to buy below $300 before the 8-K came out. I was not. Either way I'm trading less and less and simply waiting for the Model 3 ramp and hopefully the improved financials that should come with that at which point I expect my core position to show some decent gains.
Regarding non-owners getting reservations *now*:
Hypothesis Confirmed - received configurator email in just 1 week! • r/teslamotors
Do you have any explanation for this?
Why should Tesla prefer new owners to first-liners?
Hypothesis Confirmed - received configurator email in just 1 week! • r/teslamotors
Do you have any explanation for this?
Why should Tesla prefer new owners to first-liners?
Gerardf
Active Member
Owe...
That is VERY conservative, do you really believe there is even the slightest chance we will not reach 5.000 / week before Dec 31st ?
Personally I do not think they will be much later than late Q2 to reach that level.
Current owners have another vehicle should the early production M3s have an issue. They require less education. Its an incentive for people to buy the higher margin and more expensive vehicle, etc. Also, Tesla said from the start that current owners have priority and that you can cut the line if you purchase an S or X. The only people that object are non owners that have become impatient. Its a sentiment that I understand, but that doesn't make them right.
They will probably burst to that 5000 /w level, not clear if it’s steady state level.
Apparently the Model s plus x where at 2,500 units per week level, but
2000 / w seems empirically more realistic.
Its not that I don't follow many of the investor threads, nor that I am disliking the present discussion. However, the majority of the recent posts are far more appropriate in the General Discussion thread. Each time I see a message pop up in Market Action, I expect / hope to see something thats immediately relevant. If we could move it there, I would very much appreciate it.
This is an existing owner. The rules have been the same from the beginning, Model S & X owners have priority. And it makes perfect sense, an existing owner is a confirmed serious customer, and they are more familiar with the company having interacted with them previously. The fact that it only took one week from reservation to configuration email indicates the list of existing owners in the queue is getting really short, and non-owners will start receiving emails soon.
So, what exactly is it that you find so confusing?
I'd like to propose a new "line-cutting" item - If you have been a shareholder before the Model S went into production AND a non-owner
THAT WOULD BE ME.
All those new "owners" who just found out about the company last year and want a M3 now and getting one is kinda pathetic. I also held the company up when it was small by investing in them.
See how far we can play this game? .........................
/rant
THAT WOULD BE ME.
All those new "owners" who just found out about the company last year and want a M3 now and getting one is kinda pathetic. I also held the company up when it was small by investing in them.
See how far we can play this game?
........................./rant
Menifeer
Member
There's a benefit of selling to non-owners.
Current owners have already spread the gospel to their friends/relatives. A non-owner brings a new community of friends/relatives who will then learn the EV benefits.
In the process, one disgruntled voice will be silenced...
Current owners have already spread the gospel to their friends/relatives. A non-owner brings a new community of friends/relatives who will then learn the EV benefits.
In the process, one disgruntled voice will be silenced...
ValueAnalyst
Closed
Bayerische Motoren Werke (BMW) Given a €120.00 Price Target by Deutsche Bank Analysts
Talk about bad timing.
Talk about bad timing.
MOD:
Keep musings that are not rigorously market-oriented to the General thread, please. Relying on Mods to back up the moving van umpteen times a day is not the way to have them behave generously to you when you step out of line.
And "But Johnny posted something that I've just gottagottagotta respond to!" don't work no how no way.
Keep musings that are not rigorously market-oriented to the General thread, please. Relying on Mods to back up the moving van umpteen times a day is not the way to have them behave generously to you when you step out of line.
And "But Johnny posted something that I've just gottagottagotta respond to!" don't work no how no way.
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