TSLA Market Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable

[AWDtsla]

Everyone keeps says he's not being charged with fraud, but the SEC used that term in their tweet about the case:
View attachment 338830

Yeah I saw that. The court filing doesn't include fraud, but the press releases do. Which one counts there?

 

[dqd88]

The information that has come out about the offered settlement proves my point.

They were not asking EM to step down as CEO.

Exactly. The settlement was for nominal fine and 2 independent directors to come on board. Translation - the "crime" was not THAT serious. Advantage Elon if this goes to trial. The complaint was weak. Makes the SEC look like a bunch of whiny sissies who are just trying to split hairs.

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

Everyone keeps says he's not being charged with fraud, but the SEC used that term in their tweet about the case:
View attachment 338830

They probably didn’t run the text of that tweet by their lawyers. The irony...

 

[SO16]

Wow, there's a mod in this thread?

PLEASE permaban the astroturfing troll Mike117. You'll find virtually everyone in this thread will thank you for that!

Shorts who are on the level = Should be welcome here.
Astroturfers who pretend to be longs and show up whenever they think they can move the stock = Should be instabanned.

I blocked Mike long ago. Works wonders for your health.

 

[tinm]

I suppose we’re now in the thick of what Elon warned about a while back when he spoke to the NY Times: “From a personal pain standpoint, the worst is yet to come.”

 

[dqd88]

I am hoping this circus will stop. This is just plain nuts. It is hard for any company to innovate and be efficient when crap like this happens every few weeks. I wish EM would have taken this private or may be he should consider it doing now somehow. Too much at stake and though there is money to be made by short sellers etc, this is a never ending cluster f. This is annoying for us investors as much it is for Tesla I bet.

Agree, but we all need to grow some balls.
We only sell because we think others will sell. That sounds crazy to me. If we all could just communicate via ESP and collectively hold, we could control the narrative. sigh

 

[jkirkwood001]

A big part of America wants Tesla to fail.
I don't know if it's feasible or even practical, but in my opinion Elon should consider taking Tesla to a country where it would be supported and protected against endless manipulations that have been made trough the years. This way real investors could still invest in Tesla instead of being forced out like they would with a private deal.
Perhaps a country like China, which may have many political problems but it's highly supportive of renewable energies and electric vehicles, the opposite of America which protects Oil and Gas companies at all costs. Better suggestions would be welcome.

Are these options? I mean, in Elon-world, everything is possible, no?

1. Create a new company (private?) and sell all of Tesla (including all rights) to new company for $1. Close Tesla
2. Give Elon a non-executive title, (e.g. "World Visionary") and put a figurehead in his place as CEO - Elon still calls the shots

 

[traxila]

Agree.

We were at this level just a few weeks ago. I don't see a massive panic. The world is used to panicking due to dramatization in the media. Reality is often far less dramatic.

Yeah tried to enter a short order, rejected. No, wasn't really shorting unless it magically popped to 300 in 2 seconds.

Think SP is really being helped here by shorting shut down. Look for renewed and vicious attacks early next week. Think the magic number for them is 250. If they bust through that...

 

[Leo9]

I bought plenty of calls.
Strikes $280-$290, October 5, October 12 and November 9.
Come on, let's go up.

 

[jeewee3000]

Agree, but we all need to grow some balls.
We only sell because we think others will sell. That sounds crazy to me. If we all could just communicate via ESP and collectively hold, we could control the narrative. sigh

The Tragedy of the Commons.

 

[The Blue Owl]

Agree.

We were at this level just a few weeks ago. I don't see a massive panic. The world is used to panicking due to dramatization in the media. Reality is often far less dramatic.

The real test is next Tuesday, when the circuit breaker gets out of the way. The effect of that combined with the Q3 numbers is hard to predict.

 

[Fact Checking]

Nope: realtime updates here, and at 09:50 vol is at 7 million.

Indeed - I've mis-read a decimal place.

Deleted my comment.

 

[tivoboy]

A big part of America wants Tesla to fail.
I don't know if it's feasible or even practical, but in my opinion Elon should consider taking Tesla to a country where it would be supported and protected against endless manipulations that have been made trough the years. This way real investors could still invest in Tesla instead of being forced out like they would with a private deal.
Perhaps a country like China, which may have many political problems but it's highly supportive of renewable energies and electric vehicles, the opposite of America which protects Oil and Gas companies at all costs. Better suggestions would be welcome.

It’s already in a country that encourages and supports all those things you mention. It’s just called NorCal not China.

 

[bhtooefr]

The problem is that California hasn't seceded from the union.

...yet, anyway.

 

[tivoboy]

I bought plenty of calls.
Strikes $280-$290, October 5, October 12 and November 9.
Come on, let's go up.

Might be some decent entries if price wasn’t too high. I’d be ready to exit them next week if you get a solid return.

 

[W84M3]

 

[jeewee3000]

The real test is next Tuesday, when the circuit breaker gets out of the way. The effect of that combined with the Q3 numbers is hard to predict.

Indeed, interesting times ahead!

If this were a movie, people would call it lazy writing. Can't make this *sugar* up.

 

[Wooloomooloo]

I know there is a tendency on this board for bulls to say everything negative is a short conspiracy, but for people convinced that Elon is right to turn the settlement down which required him admitting no guilty or stepping down from CEO can you please point to some legal analysis by an expert for this basis? This is Elon’s ego over everything. Elon might genuinely believe that he did nothing wrong and I personally believe he had no ill intent. But the fact is, according to legal analysis I’ve read, when he tweeted funding secured as a public CEO he should’ve had the damn funding secured. A belief that he would get the funding is not the same as being secured, this is the crux of the case and why most legal analysts view this as a slam dunk for SEC.

Also it just got that much harder for Tesla to keep their talent or execute as this is an enermous cloud hanging over the company now.

I really hope Elon reconsiders soon and takes the settlement.

Btw I am not concerned by the DOJ investigation at all. As I understand it, Criminal would require intent and there was none.

I don't know what legal views you're referring to, but as someone who deals with regulators often, I can tell you that their bark is almost always worse than their bite. The SEC have thrown the book at Elon because he would not settle, in the hope that he will now settle. Otherwise this will go on for years. Now the settlement could be worse for him now than on Thursday because they have a little more leverage, but they probably also know that this isn't a slam dunk for them.

The most damning thing the SEC really have against Elon is that the Board apparently didn't know anything about his idea to take the company private, if indeed that was ever an actual intent. And therein lies the 'legal' issue, which is proving intent. Either intent to manipulate the share price, or even intent to take Tesla private.

Elon never actually said "I am taking Tesla private" or "I am going to recommend taking Tesla private" or "I have a plan to take Tesla private" - he said "Am considering taking Tesla private..." (my emphasis). Even later in the day when he emailed his employees, he lays out a case for doing so, but there's no reference to a plan or agreement.

Anyone following the company, who knows Elon's personality and whims, who knows the realities of de-listing such a large company, would have taken that with a big grain of salt. Any investor who made a market move (either buying or selling) based on that tweet, really needs to consider their investment strategy, and in fact although the price spiked, it didn't for long. It's not like it went on a 2 week rally to $420 only to crash when the idea fell apart.

The only people really hurt were people shorting the stock at that point, who then covered their positions in the seconds and minutes after the tweet. It was likely the shorts who (ironically) drove the price up (I don't have the data, maybe someone here does) and so they speculated themselves into losses. Womp womp... live by the sword, die by the sword, etc.

Why is this important? Because the SEC's position is that Musk's intentionally harmed investors by misleading the market into thinking taking Tesla private was very likely to happen. Ironically the fact the Board didn't know might help Musk, because he can easily argue he was simply musing an idea and investors should not respond to such musings, only official statements by the company,

 

[gene]

Congrats @toddburch (Todd Burch) on your fine post from yesterday. Really for me, yours was the post of the year! Rob Mauer read it on his Tesla Daily podcast as well. I would like to add to your post, that we can "take up arms" in favor of Tesla by helping with deliveries as I will be doing this weekend, and also walking door to door for the progressive congressional races coming up November 6th. If you are in or have a district near you that needs to be turned, get on it and volunteer, it actually fun and rewarding.

 

[Nate the Great]

After following her again, Elon has now unfollowed Grimes on twitter. Coincidence?

I thought about this as well. Why do some women feel the need to share their partners details to the world.

I think he may of planted false information with her to see if it made it to the press.

Maybe he had some suspicions about her, and then decided to put on a show for her. This may explain the fascination of BI, about funding being not secured.