Elon's hope was for other manufactures to join in. He realized that he alone cannot do this. He only builds the frame work, show how it's a viable business and get through all the R&D pain other companies doesn't need to endure. But of course the entire world attacks him for it instead of embracing what he is trying to do. Profitability was never the mission. Going public was just a way to keep Tesla alive during trouble times. Accelerating the advent of sustainable energy is and will always be Tesla's mission.
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Profitability severely weakens the hand of activist shorts, whose campaigns rely not just on encouraging heavy shorting of the stock and driving off weak longs, but driving away customers and increasing borrowing costs by spreading fears about the company's financial position - hopefully creating a self-reinforcing downward spiral. A small recurring profit will make Tesla far less desirable target, as a profitable company cannot be killed in this manner. Tesla's credit rating will rise, and instead of raising capital through dilution, they can borrow at favourable rates instead.
Krugerrand
Meow
I don’t think emotional abuse means what you think it does. But thanks so much for your genuine concern for me and mine.
That was a very low quality post dondy. Disappointed that people are attaching appreciative hand gestures to it. 0-4000 in two years is not astounding by industry standards or the standard set by Tesla 2 years ago. Elon has rebutted each of your own counterarguments with 'humans are overrated', sleeping on a floor, apologizing about body shop and service work, and delivery delays are all over reddit and from people I know. Your mocking lol about my comment about the mystery of 60k$ cars producing 15% margins really just shows to me you are intimidated by the subject and want it to go away. Your overall behavior was needlessly defensive. Super disappointed.
Rethinking this. After 2-3 profitable quarters, they will be bringing in 5+ billion per year in profits? Not sure they know how to spend that much money without just wasting it, forget about even more funds from equity. Will have to hire a bunch of C players just to get warm bodies in positions to do the build out. It will redefine growing pains.
Grrr
Edit: please stop this back and forth. I like reading this thread, not your bickering.
Unless it’s funny.
Mod: It's also boring and tedious work, like following an elephant with the runs and only one bucket. I have been advised how to ban, and will. Remember, I have little time left and don't want to waste it. It is much safer to post information here which is useful. How much of this banter is useful to others, and not much to the offenders as well when they think about what they say, say, next week. Keep it until then. An advice.
Edit: please stop this back and forth. I like reading this thread, not your bickering.
Unless it’s funny.
Mod: It's also boring and tedious work, like following an elephant with the runs and only one bucket. I have been advised how to ban, and will. Remember, I have little time left and don't want to waste it. It is much safer to post information here which is useful. How much of this banter is useful to others, and not much to the offenders as well when they think about what they say, say, next week. Keep it until then. An advice.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ludalicious
Active Member
Cool story...
If only I had a dollar every time a dealer told me a story about them selling an electric performance vehicle.... Every great story has laughter...
cheshire cat
Member
Yes prob'ly the best thing I've seen in Ougt-o-car, Having spent a lot of time pouring over the rolling S chassis in the local Tesla shop and studying as much as I can find about the cars, it really makes one feel these are too good for people who just want an electric car, a little like all the people who just buy an Audi/Merc/ BM' just because it has the "must have" badge on the front. It's already happening with Tesla but it's what builds the business, otherwise many of us would not be able to afford one.
Shorts are already moving to "it's going to be a demand problem" because they know they lost the profitability goal post. You don't think these guys know math? They figured it out and are expecting profitability. The "demand problem" will be ongoing and the thesis cannot be destroyed by a good quarter or even a good year. There are too many unknowns and even if Tesla manage to show crazy strong demand yoy, this "demand problem" will still be there because it plays the whole "you never know what future unknown will kill off Tesla's demand..".
Just think about 3 years prior to the first iphone and shorts are arguing on a Nokia forum about how "there's going to be a demand problem that will kill off Nokia"..hindsight is 20/20 today but a statement like that would sound like gibberish back then. So this thesis will be the final thesis and there's nothing in the world that can kill it because "you never know..something can come up..." People are shorting APPL because of this thesis since the beginning of time.
bdy0627
Active Member
It seems to me that the importance of this point may be under-appreciated. Tesla's growth rate is very much dependent upon access to capital at favorable rates. Demonstrating that Tesla is profitable, even over just a few quarters, is now very important in terms of accessing additional capital at low rates. The good news is that Tesla is already moving forward with the GF in China, so this temporary slowdown of raising capital over the next few quarters should not affect that. It may slow down the deployment of additional GF's, unless the terms are similar to the one in China, which will apparently be leased. By briefly focusing on profitability, Tesla will come out on the other side in a much better position with respect to obtaining capital at favorable rates.
PSA: someone name-calling the rest of the forum shouldn't be simultaneously complaining about being emotionally abused. It's not a great look.
Meanwhile, I haven't seen any lemurs, yet we move one trading day closer to Q3 report. I'll take it.
mekberg
Member
Mars is the hedge.
dqd88
Member
I think VA and others view this as a place were one can sort of let their guard down and be more open and honest and not have to worry about putting on a tough front. I think your point applies to other arenas. This is not a work place. It's more like a town hall meeting in the local coffee shop.
Think someone will start a class-action on being misled?
bdy0627
Active Member
Shorts will certainly continue to move the goalpoasts, but there is a reasonable doubt about Q3 profitability. Depending upon a number of different factors that we do not have full insight into, it may be slightly profitable or possibly slightly negative. It probably won't be substantially positive or negative. However, it should be hugely positive compared with Q2 (-$4.2 GAAP EPS), whether it is slightly negative or positive. Even more important is the likely huge improvement in net change in cash compared with Q2 (-$436M). If it is anywhere close to +$500M, that's an improvement of nearly $1B. I don't expect the media to focus on these huge positives though.
I think it will be interesting to see the negative spin from the media, regardless of the actual numbers. Many of the articles are probably already written or are being written now. There will be areas of vulnerability for the media and short sellers to highlight as problematic no doubt. I have a difficult time believing the market will yawn at these numbers, but I've underestimated the short-seller/media collusion and ability to influence the market's interpretation of ER's in the past. Combine that with the current overall negative market sentiment and we may not see the share price action we expect from these numbers.
VA seems a bit confused on the emotional abuse thing. It's just status games and this *is* an echo chamber and people behave with false confidence and poor tact when they know they are defending forum dogmatic positions (the 'funny' thing is particularly obnoxious). This is all fine as long as everyone winks and knows it and takes the useful information and arguments provided with a grain of salt, as well as takes responsibility for their investment decisions. If you are looking for platonic seeking of truth you have come to the wrong place.
I would note also that a lot of haters I have debated with have started off neutral and switched sides. They usually claim that's Tesla\Elon's fault, but my impression, and a few admit it even, that it's because of Tesla fans behaving poorly when they tried to bring up something negative. That matters less here, but it does matter if you are outside of here trying to be a warrior for Tesla. Humans are funny. That's the end of my meta-discussions for today.
I’m sure the SEC is preparing subpoenas as we speak.
Krugerrand
Meow
Nuh, uh. Not when money is involved.
Devaluing ones word is worth more than your joke implies you think it’s worth.
My goal was 1000 shares but the 826 I have will be sold tomorrow if I’m lied to again.
I’m not investing in somebody I cannot trust.
When the ceo of a now 40billion dollar company cannot keep a 24 hour commitment I’m out.
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